299 réponses à ce sujet

[savionen]

RiouHotaru wrote...

You were shown that Sovereign easily decimated multiple fleets and was only defeated because he downloaded himself into Saren to try and retake the Citadel, and the destruction of the platform caused him to "die".

At the end of ME2 we're shown a screen of an outrageously large number of Sovereign-class Reapers emerging from Dark Space. It's pretty damn clear it won't be enough.

Sovereign did not kill multiple fleets.

Being killed by having his shields knocked out also points to them having weaknesses, not being godlike.

Modifié par savionen, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:06 .

[Eain]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

The Reapers never came off as arrogant to you? Shepard even says in game that the Reapers weakness is that they think they have won. Just like Palpatine they know your plan and think they've made the necessary arrangements to see it fail. They are arrogant and overconfident to the very end.

And they had every right to be, because the galaxy was filled with witless idiots who insisted on doing everything wrong with every opportunity Shepard gave them. Even if the Reapers weren't by definition invincible, the writers went out of their way to have the races of the galaxy be so excessively stupid that they became such.

The only reason we won is because, conveniently, there was suddenly a superweapon.

[Jamie9]

Eain wrote...

I haven't, enlighten me.

Deals with an end-of-the-world scenario. Nicholas Cage finds a series of numbers, which actually refer to the number of people who will die in the next accident (be it plane crash, bomb on train, the works).

Obviously, the numbers end with "Everyone Else" and the world literally dies. We lose everyone.

Aliens come along taking Cage's two children to an "Eden" planet. The end.

Very much like Mass Effect 3 now that I compare them.

[Father_Jerusalem]

A Reaper is completely and utterly not invincible. Several have been defeated, whether conventionally (Rannoch) or unconventionally (Tchunka).

However.

Just because you can defeat A Reaper, or a COUPLE Reapers at once semi-conventionally does NOT mean that you can defeat ALL or even MOST Reapers at once semi-conventionally.

It is, more than anything else, their numbers that make them "invincible". You may be able to kill some, but the simple fact is that they will just. Keep. Coming.

[Binary_Helix 1]

I never got the impression the reapers were invincible until ME3 said so.

That was probably due to a change in writers. That's why ME3 feels disconnected to the previous games.

[Eain]

Jamie9 wrote...

Eain wrote...

I haven't, enlighten me.

Deals with an end-of-the-world scenario. Nicholas Cage finds a series of numbers, which actually refer to the number of people who will die in the next accident (be it plane crash, bomb on train, the works).

Obviously, the numbers end with "Everyone Else" and the world literally dies. We lose everyone.

Aliens come along taking Cage's two children to an "Eden" planet. The end.

Very much like Mass Effect 3 now that I compare them.

Oh wait, I've seen that one, haha. Only the very end though.

But that sounds bad.

[Dendio1]

where was the OP after mass effect 1? It took everything to kill sovereign. We knew an armada was on the way. Where was his "it makes no sense for such a powerful enemy" back then?

[Tealjaker94]

Eain wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

The Reapers never came off as arrogant to you? Shepard even says in game that the Reapers weakness is that they think they have won. Just like Palpatine they know your plan and think they've made the necessary arrangements to see it fail. They are arrogant and overconfident to the very end.

And they had every right to be, because the galaxy was filled with witless idiots who insisted on doing everything wrong with every opportunity Shepard gave them. Even if the Reapers weren't by definition invincible, the writers went out of their way to have the races of the galaxy be so excessively stupid that they became such.

The only reason we won is because, conveniently, there was suddenly a superweapon.

And conveniently the Death Star had an open path straight to the core. Twice. It happens all the time in stories.

[Jamie9]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

And conveniently the Death Star had an open path straight to the core. Twice. It happens all the time in stories.

Having read the novel "Death Star" there is an ultimate irony here. The Empire gets slaves to build the Death Star, and one of them argues against having the extra external port, but gets laughed at by the Imperial overseers.

[savionen]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

And conveniently the Death Star had an open path straight to the core. Twice. It happens all the time in stories.

That does't mean it's a good thing...

[julio77777]

Honestly at one point I was afraid they were going to go with the "target the big red glowing eye !" to destroy the whole Reaper army.

But as for the need for a deus ex machina it was pretty obvious when ME2 did absolutely nothing to advance the main plot. The reapers remained the same mysterious beings they were in ME1. So I agree the scenaristic choices are discutable, but there was nothing that  could have been done that would be taken seriously with just ME3.
Let's be honest for a second there a conventional victory in ME3 as such would have felt cheap as hell.

Modifié par julio77777, 07 juillet 2012 - 09:30 .

[Eain]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Eain wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

The Reapers never came off as arrogant to you? Shepard even says in game that the Reapers weakness is that they think they have won. Just like Palpatine they know your plan and think they've made the necessary arrangements to see it fail. They are arrogant and overconfident to the very end.

And they had every right to be, because the galaxy was filled with witless idiots who insisted on doing everything wrong with every opportunity Shepard gave them. Even if the Reapers weren't by definition invincible, the writers went out of their way to have the races of the galaxy be so excessively stupid that they became such.

The only reason we won is because, conveniently, there was suddenly a superweapon.

And conveniently the Death Star had an open path straight to the core. Twice. It happens all the time in stories.

Actually I would cite Star Wars as an another example of a hack writer being carried by the awesomeness of his setting rather than his story. Star Wars is such a cool setting that there's enough goodwill to overlook such crappiness.

Then of course the prequel trilogy came and that goodwill melted like snow before the sun, but that's another story. George Lucas overall is not talented at all and nobody should be surprised considering he never liked writing stories. Star Wars's origin story is one of Lucas begrudgingly sitting down and writing his own film because he had no other choice.

[v TricKy v]

Eain wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Eain wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

The Reapers never came off as arrogant to you? Shepard even says in game that the Reapers weakness is that they think they have won. Just like Palpatine they know your plan and think they've made the necessary arrangements to see it fail. They are arrogant and overconfident to the very end.

And they had every right to be, because the galaxy was filled with witless idiots who insisted on doing everything wrong with every opportunity Shepard gave them. Even if the Reapers weren't by definition invincible, the writers went out of their way to have the races of the galaxy be so excessively stupid that they became such.

The only reason we won is because, conveniently, there was suddenly a superweapon.

And conveniently the Death Star had an open path straight to the core. Twice. It happens all the time in stories.

Actually I would cite Star Wars as an another example of a hack writer being carried by the awesomeness of his setting rather than his story. Star Wars is such a cool setting that there's enough goodwill to overlook such crappiness.

Then of course the prequel trilogy came and that goodwill melted like snow before the sun, but that's another story. George Lucas overall is not talented at all and nobody should be surprised considering he never liked writing stories. Star Wars's origin story is one of Lucas begrudgingly sitting down and writing his own film because he had no other choice.

off-topic but Im the only one who likes the Star Wars Prequels? The whole Anakin emo scenes were annoying but apart from that I found them good.

[Jamie9]

v TricKy v wrote...

off-topic but Im the only one who likes the Star Wars Prequels? The whole Anakin emo scenes were annoying but apart from that I found them good.

I enjoyed them but I'm a Star Wars fan, so I probably overlook the worse aspects.

Still:

Revenge of the Sith > Return of the Jedi

[Heeden]

v TricKy v wrote...

off-topic but Im the only one who likes the Star Wars Prequels? The whole Anakin emo scenes were annoying but apart from that I found them good.

Midichlorian's were a stupid idea, Anakin in the first one was really annoying (as opposed to in the second where he was lame), the dialogue and acting was fairly sucky.

However insofar as light-sabre and droid battles go it was absolutely top-notch. The opening sequence with Obi-wan and Qui-gon (sp?) had more kick-ass Jedi action than the whole original trilogy.

Overall worth watching but not worth thinking about.

[D24O]

OP, tell that to Kai Leng.

[Tealjaker94]

v TricKy v wrote...

off-topic but Im the only one who likes the Star Wars Prequels? The whole Anakin emo scenes were annoying but apart from that I found them good.

I actually decided to watch all 6 movies in order today. I'm on A New Hope. The first 3 are ok but simply not as good as the original trilogy. Plus the whole Anakin-Padme romance is stupid and there's Jar Jar Binks. I literally cringe everytime he opens his mouth.

[Tealjaker94]

Jamie9 wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

off-topic but Im the only one who likes the Star Wars Prequels? The whole Anakin emo scenes were annoying but apart from that I found them good.

I enjoyed them but I'm a Star Wars fan, so I probably overlook the worse aspects.

Still:

Revenge of the Sith < Return of the Jedi

Fixed it for you.

[Heeden]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

I actually decided to watch all 6 movies in order today. I'm on A New Hope. The first 3 are ok but simply not as good as the original trilogy. Plus the whole Anakin-Padme romance is stupid and there's Jar Jar Binks. I literally cringe everytime he opens his mouth.

I can't remember if it's in the second or the third film, but Jar-jar is there as an Ambassador and his only line is "sorry" when he gets in someone's way. I think that was a wonderful portrayal of his character.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

v TricKy v wrote...

off-topic but Im the only one who likes the Star Wars Prequels? The whole Anakin emo scenes were annoying but apart from that I found them good.

I actually decided to watch all 6 movies in order today. I'm on A New Hope. The first 3 are ok but simply not as good as the original trilogy. Plus the whole Anakin-Padme romance is stupid and there's Jar Jar Binks. I literally cringe everytime he opens his mouth.

Also OT: I've read some people's ideas and they say that the best way to watch the movies is simply to skip Phanton Menace, go straight into Attack of the Clones and go on from there. There's just nothing in Phantom Mencace that you NEED in order to understand the rest of the movies, and you skip over the stupid midicrapians, young Anakin, and MOST of Jar Jar.

[Jamie9]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Fixed it for you.

Nah. I liked RotJ, but compared to the two films before it (which were masterpieces) it was terrible. A bunch of Ewoks overthrow a galactic empire? <_<

You're... just gonna rebuild that Death Star huh? 'Cos it went so well the last time.

I feel like 80% of the content in the prequels happened in Revenge of the Sith.

[Tealjaker94]

Heeden wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

I actually decided to watch all 6 movies in order today. I'm on A New Hope. The first 3 are ok but simply not as good as the original trilogy. Plus the whole Anakin-Padme romance is stupid and there's Jar Jar Binks. I literally cringe everytime he opens his mouth.

I can't remember if it's in the second or the third film, but Jar-jar is there as an Ambassador and his only line is "sorry" when he gets in someone's way. I think that was a wonderful portrayal of his character.

It's the third one. By far the best of the prequels.

[Demadrio]

I happen to think this particular deus ex machina actually works, at least within the framework of the Mass Effect universe. Plans for a countermeasure againt the Reapers, passed down from cycle to cycle, modified a little each time, until by sheer luck ours is the cycle in which it's ready. Moreover, it hints to a grand-scale plan for galactic history: the race who created the Reapers also conceived the Crucible as a time limit — when galactic civilization had progressed to the point it could complete and use the Crucible, that let the Reaper Overmind know that the Reapers' time was up and the cycle would stop. Brillant, actually. Loads of mythology could go into it.

So to me it feels like less of an asspull and more like a coup in the writers' room. That is, the writers of the game were building toward one ending in the first two games (abandoning the Citadel and Reaper-built mass relays in favor of something new — Vigil's message and the whole dark energy thing would have fed into this) but changed their minds for game 3 and created a separate, equally viable ending. Unfortunately, this leaves us with a few unraveled plot threads and a grand finale with far too little foreshadowing. But it doesn't really qualify as an ass-pull.

As for the OP's question, The point of creating an invincible enemy is so that the story is not about beating them. The goal of the ME trilogy was never to beat the Reapers, but to bring the galaxy together and break the cycle.

[Tealjaker94]

Jamie9 wrote...

Tealjaker94 wrote...

Fixed it for you.

Nah. I liked RotJ, but compared to the two films before it (which were masterpieces) it was terrible. A bunch of Ewoks overthrow a galactic empire? <_<

You're... just gonna rebuild that Death Star huh? 'Cos it went so well the last time.

I feel like 80% of the content in the prequels happened in Revenge of the Sith.

Revenge of the Sith is the only one of the prequels that deserves to be mentioned with the original trilogy. I'd still take RotJ over it, but it's a fantastic movie.

[v TricKy v]

Do you really find the midichlorians that bad? If I remember correctly it´s just one or two sentences from qui-gon and never gets mentioned at all afterwards. But I must agree with the whole Padme-Anakin story. I roll eyes every time I see these scenes.