236 réponses à ce sujet

[2Shepards]

N-Seven wrote...

2Shepards wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...


By the time I finised processing all the endings, I find myself apathetic at best to the Mass Effect universe. I don't feel like I am killing everybody, as the illusion of the narrative has already been dispelled.

this, coupled with the quote in my sig, and boom you have my feeling, and why I refused.............to finish my game.

I respect that answer more than most others I've heard regarding that choice.  Top two, actually.

Thanks N7.  Frankly I don't think I could cohertently explain why I can not choose, after all it just a game right.  But I can't.  So my Shepard(s) will stay frozen in time, in that moment.

[PoisonMushroom]

Nashiktal wrote...

By the time I finised processing all the endings, I find myself apathetic at best to the Mass Effect universe. I don't feel like I am killing everybody, as the illusion of the narrative has already been dispelled.

The themes of Mass Effect as has been fostered through two and a half games has been thus. Teamwork can rise above difficulty. You can fight impossible odds if you don't accept the inevitable. Individuality is better than homogenity. (and introduced in the second game.) Organics and Synthetics can work together and and use the previous two themes to achieve great things.

The endings all changed that and violated the themes of the universe. The changes were so severe, sudden, and final that I was no longer watching shepard and his adventures, but holding a video game controller in my hand and choosing incredibly bad narrative options.

As such if I ever do play Mass Effect single player again, the only thing I could possibly choose is what holds even a modicum of the original themes.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at when I was talking about story. I don't in anyway feel like I've won or saved lives when I choose any of the main three choices. I feel like I'm watching the ending to another game. There's nothing there for me.

Refusal is only a cop-out and a terrible ending if the illusion of being in the Mass Effect world is still holding up for you.

[simonrana]

I liked it too. Hard to choose the "everyone dies" option after working so hard to save everyone for 3 games, but Shepard's dialogue is great, refusing Star Child's random nonsense options makes sense, getting defeated by the Reapers is the most realistic option since the galactic races were so outmatched, and the Liara capsule tie in is great.

[memorysquid]

simonrana wrote...

I liked it too. Hard to choose the "everyone dies" option after working so hard to save everyone for 3 games, but Shepard's dialogue is great, refusing Star Child's random nonsense options makes sense, getting defeated by the Reapers is the most realistic option since the galactic races were so outmatched, and the Liara capsule tie in is great.

It is a well done ending, the dialogue is stellar.  The aesthetics are horrible though; you've basically sacrificed your life already and thousands have died to get you there so you can wimp out and refuse to make a tough decision?  Ugly.

[Albax11]

zambot wrote...
"Personal isn't the same as important."

Ah those are the words of Captain Carrot. Mmm. All hail Terry Pratchett.

I went through the Refuse ending today (by accident) and while I agree with most of what the OP says, I find it far too depressing. I would have been more pleased if Bioware hadn't made the scenario unwinnable. As has been said before, that's surely not their intention, but with the brevity of the cutscene compared to the others it's not surprising that it's the way it comes off.

I'm thinking that my Shepard may choose control. But I seeing as both the Shepard I was playing and myself hate the Reapers and Godchild... Destroy seems like the only plausible option. Anyways. Getting a little off topic here.

Discuss!!!

[Akruze]

I did the refuse ending twice. Once I refused in the conversation, than the next time I shot the bastard in the face.

Modifié par Akruze, 14 juillet 2012 - 10:52 .

[chemiclord]

Albax11 wrote...

zambot wrote...
"Personal isn't the same as important."

Ah those are the words of Captain Carrot. Mmm. All hail Terry Pratchett.

I went through the Refuse ending today (by accident) and while I agree with most of what the OP says, I find it far too depressing. I would have been more pleased if Bioware hadn't made the scenario unwinnable. As has been said before, that's surely not their intention, but with the brevity of the cutscene compared to the others it's not surprising that it's the way it comes off.

Oh that was ABSOLUTELY Bioware's intention.

They had been telling you, in and out of game, for YEARS that the Reapers could not be defeated conventionally, at least not with these cycle's leaders ramming their heads up their asses until it was far too late.  I mean... how is this STILL a surprise for some people?

To fight the Reapers head to head means the Reapers win.  Refuse means the Reapers win... at least, this go around.  To do a 180 on that repeatedly reinforced point WOULD be rejecting the narrative set up to that point.

Modifié par chemiclord, 14 juillet 2012 - 11:36 .

[AlanC9]

Well, Bio could have set up a conventional win in ME2. But when they let Shep be an idiot and blow up the Collector base, it was pretty obvious that conventional victory was off the table

Modifié par AlanC9, 14 juillet 2012 - 11:42 .

[chemiclord]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, Bio could have set up a conventional win in ME2. But when they let Shep be an idiot and blow up the Collector base, it was pretty obvious that conventional victory was off the table

Buddy, it was off the table from the freakin' BEGINNING of ME2, when the Council said, "Reapers?  Wut Reapers?  We no see no Reapers.  We have... dismissed that claim."

The idea was narrow at best, considering how much it took just to bring down Sovereign.  The beginning on ME2 should have dashed any and all hopes of a conventional victory and tossed it right in the toilet.

Modifié par chemiclord, 14 juillet 2012 - 11:53 .

[Albax11]

chemiclord wrote...
The idea was narrow at best, considering how much it took just to bring down Sovereign.  The beginning on ME2 should have dashed any and all hopes of a conventional victory and tossed it right in the toilet.

But from the toilet rises the floodwater of hope. And from it's stinky depths we can do anything.
...
That was a terrible analogy.

[z_gun]

I like the idea of the refusal ending since it is ACTUALLY WHAT SHEPARD WOULD DO with those options! I just hate the Bioware decided to make it a "Screw you, you lose because you did not pick our original endings" option. If refusal actually led to an alternate way to win, I would not be so upset with it as I am.

[z_gun]

PoisonMushroom wrote...

Nashiktal wrote...

By the time I finised processing all the endings, I find myself apathetic at best to the Mass Effect universe. I don't feel like I am killing everybody, as the illusion of the narrative has already been dispelled.

The themes of Mass Effect as has been fostered through two and a half games has been thus. Teamwork can rise above difficulty. You can fight impossible odds if you don't accept the inevitable. Individuality is better than homogenity. (and introduced in the second game.) Organics and Synthetics can work together and and use the previous two themes to achieve great things.

The endings all changed that and violated the themes of the universe. The changes were so severe, sudden, and final that I was no longer watching shepard and his adventures, but holding a video game controller in my hand and choosing incredibly bad narrative options.

As such if I ever do play Mass Effect single player again, the only thing I could possibly choose is what holds even a modicum of the original themes.

Yeah, this is what I was trying to get at when I was talking about story. I don't in anyway feel like I've won or saved lives when I choose any of the main three choices. I feel like I'm watching the ending to another game. There's nothing there for me.

Refusal is only a cop-out and a terrible ending if the illusion of being in the Mass Effect world is still holding up for you.

Totally agree. Every ending option feels like it betrays the narrative, themes and universe of Mass Effect. With the EC, pretty much you can choose to:

A.) Be a genocidal monster with destroy (Because apparently all that humanizing of the Geth and EDI was just stupid fabrications of Shepard's human mind right?)

B.) Be a hypocrite with control (Didn't we keep telling the Illusive Man that control was wrong?)

C.) Be a slave to a biased opinion with synthesis (Why would Shepard decide it was good to listen to anything the enemy had to say?)

D.) Do the right thing and lose with refusal (Was this Bioware telling us "Screw your fan suggested endings"?)

It is amazing how ten minutes of gameplay and story completely deflated two and three quarters of a fantastic series. It would be an achievement if it did not suck so bad.

Modifié par z_gun, 15 juillet 2012 - 05:55 .