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[Joe1962]

CptData wrote...

So with the EC DLC, it's save to have Ash with you on board of the Normandy

Yep. I always kept Ash any way, as I play the MP and keep my EMS pretty high. It is very close with me as to Ash and Liara as my favorite LI's.

I also have a save with Tali as LI, but haven't imported it, yet. I was let down by how late she enters the game.

I only kept Kaiden once to get his bonus powers. Every other time I give him to Hackett.

[o Ventus]

Final Fantasy 13 Fangirl wrote...

I don't like Ashley or Kaiden because they are so mean to Shepard in 2 and 3. Even though you try to explain to them that you are not with Cerberus anymore they still treat you poorly. That is why I can't bring myself to like them.

On Horizon I can understand the VS' caution with Shepard. It was their first contact with him/her since he/she died, and he/she was resurrected by a terrorist organization. If the VS was romanced, it's much more personal. But I agree that some of the VS' trust issues with you in ME3 are a little absurd, especially on Mars.

[CptData]

o Ventus wrote...

CptData wrote...

Hey, do you think Miri & Ash like each other?

Not really. Miranda is ex-Cerberus. Apart from that, I think their personalities would conflict in a number of categories.

Too bad
In my little headcanon, they have a frosty start, pretty much like Miranda and Shepard in ME2, but over time they slowly become friends. It just takes time. They're similar in a lot of fields - although different in others. Take your pick.

Of course: romance only one of them, never both.

[o Ventus]

CptData wrote...

Too bad
In my little headcanon, they have a frosty start, pretty much like Miranda and Shepard in ME2, but over time they slowly become friends. It just takes time. They're similar in a lot of fields - although different in others. Take your pick.

I dunno. I'm just not seeing the similarities. Well, barring the obvious that they're both strong-willed and independent women. I could see them being fluid coworkers. Ashley has the combat experience and is a seasoned soldier, and Miranda is a skilled leader and is perhaps best at utilizing resources, not to mention the biotics and apparent medical expertise.

Of course: romance only one of them, never both.

I would never...

Modifié par o Ventus, 10 juillet 2012 - 12:03 .

[Spitfire017]

@Will Ash and Miri even become friends? discussion: Probably not (its like fire and ice), unless circumstances (such as stranded and being forced to survive together on some ice planet) permit it. However, they could have a good peer relationship and gain some respect for each other, grounded in their love and devotion to their family. There was a opportunity to have a rather touching moment with either Shepard or Miranda, where she overcomes her hatred of Cerberus.

[BadExamp1e]

Ashley is also a skilled leader now. *Sniff* Little Gunny is all grown up.

Back to business. Ash doesn't know Miranda, but she respects her. There was some good content which got cut, that mentioned something along those lines. Ash admired, and said that what Miranda pulled of in Sanctuary, "Was the gutiest thing she's ever seen." And you know, working beside heroman Shepard for a brave bit of the game -- that's quite a compliment.

In ME3, Ash works along side Shepard on Mars despite not believing that he's all there (is it really you?). She does watch him closely the whole time, especially on the shuttle. Cerberus had been secretly operating on him for two years so that's understandable, IMO. And it's smart to be catious. Ash doesn't know the details, but somehow Cerberus got Shepard to do their dirty work. That alone, should send alarm bells going off in her head. To her, Cerberus is an evil, crafty pro-human organization.

The moment when she talks-out-loud to herself kinda shows her inner turmoil about the whole thing. The husk trooper shocks her, and prompts her into asking if Cerberus could be controlling Shepard in someway... like say... Doctor Eva? There are reasons for these things, sometimes people don't see them.

And.. Cerberus can be convincing. Liara and everyone on that Alliance base on Mars learned that the hard way. Shepard too.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 10 juillet 2012 - 03:47 .

[Sleepdribble]

I'm always interested in these Ashley threads. So many people think Bioware messed up with her and they direct their frustrations at the game's writers. Personally, I'm pretty sure they wrote Ashley this way on purpose, and I like the fact that they did so. Consider that over time:

Jack became more comfortable in her own skin and found her calling
Wrex rejected his old selfish ways to stand up and claim responsibility for his race
Kaidan became more responsible and respected, embraced his biotic ability instead of apologizing for it
Tali turned from tender-foot-pilgrim into a respected member of her race
Liara became wiser, more self-assured, reserved, and influencial
etc, etc...

...And Ashley became more introverted, uncertain, distrustful and dresses more seductively. (She was given Spectre status, as was Kaidan, because Udina thought he could use her.) THIS is what they mean when they say 'character development'. It's like meeting an old girlfriend and finding out that the years have changed her, and she no longer resembles the woman she once was. You might find the 'new' her more interesting. But in Ashley's case you probaby won't. I'm guessing most people find the change in Ashley negative, and this is where the 'hate' cames from that the OP was refering to.

Personally, I think Ashley is for a romanced male Shep what Jacob is for a romanced female Shep: A love that has soured and lost its spark while they and Shepard were apart. It sucks. But there it is.

[CptData]

Final Fantasy 13 Fangirl wrote...

I don't think that they will ever become friends. Look at how Ashley treats Shepard even though he barely worked for Cerberus and then quit. Miranda was Cerberus' second in command, I can only imagine what Ashley thinks about Miranda...

Big difference: Miranda didn't "betray" Ashley in her eyes, Shepard did. For Ash, Shepard was a darn fine soldier of the Alliance that faked his own death to defect (at least that's how it looks to her). Ashley simply doesn't know why Miranda joined Cerberus, but she never betrayed the Alliance.

That's the difference. If you don't romance both, Ashley has no real negative feelings towards Miranda. As I said, they might have a more or less frosty start since Miranda -was- the face of Cerberus, but since she left on her own for reasons she even might explain to Ash, I can see them slowly becoming closer up to friendship level. Especially since Miranda is also quite family loving (focused on her sis), a strong woman and several other traits she has in common with Ashley.

Didn't Ash say she wanted to meet Miranda in case Miri died in ME2?

[BadExamp1e]

Character development? We have dismissed that claim. Ashley is exactly who she once was. Nothing changed about her. There is nothing new about her, barring her newly added "sex appeal" for ME3. She is the same. People could say, that she has matured and now knows how to bite her tongue, but that's about it.

Lost its spark? Hardly. But yeah, we get it. You don't like the romance.

From what I gathered, most Ash fans think they messed up her character because they completely shafted her on the Normandy. She lacks content, and her scenes are poorly timed, nor do we hear her talk to any one else, or change locations like other characters. Not to mention that Bioware cut a bucket-load of her Normandy-dialogue that was in the leaked script out. So yeah, we got the short stick with that.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:01 .

[Sleepdribble]

You have just proven my point. All we know of Ashley comes from inside the game. You helpfully pointed out all the ways in which Ash HAS changed. She contributes far less to the game, and far less to Shepard as a romancable character. Her personality has deminished. She has less to offer. This is not a fault of the writers/script cuts etc. In my opinion, this is how Ashley has changed.

And just because I'm thinking outside the square here, don't accuse me of being intolerant to Ashely as a character. I find her character arc fascinating. You needn't be so defensive.

[BadExamp1e]

Sleepdribble wrote...

You have just proven my point. All we know of Ashley comes from inside the game. You helpfully pointed out all the ways in which Ash HAS changed. She contributes far less to the game, and far less to Shepard as a romancable character. Her personality has deminished. She has less to offer. This is not a fault of the writers/script cuts etc. In my opinion, this is how Ashley has changed.

And just because I'm thinking outside the square here, don't accuse me of being intolerant to Ashely as a character. I find her character arc fascinating. You needn't be so defensive.

No, I believe Ashley is very much there. The writers tried to show every side of her. Even her firey-side in the hospital.

She just never got the screen-time. And from what I read of the leaked script, Ashley had plenty to offer. Opinions on Jack, Miranda, the after life, and supporting/advicing Shepard (and Tali) as well - that all got cut in the end.

Ashley has no scenes on the Normandy, very little Zaeed-style-dialogue, doesn't talk to anyone else, won't move around like other characters. Every other character has an opinion on Javik, but her. She says nothing - that is the developers fault. And it's called getting the shaft.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:12 .

[Sleepdribble]

In that case, I cheerfully agree to disagree. I choose to take Ashley exactly as she is depicted in-game.

Modifié par Sleepdribble, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:13 .

[BadExamp1e]

Sleepdribble wrote...

In that case, I cheerfully agree to disagree. I choose to take Ashley exactly as she is depicted in-game.

Sitting in the observation deck saying "Good to see you!" over and over again, because she has no content?

Most Ash fans are aware of the missing content btw. The leaked script is out there.

[Sleepdribble]

Scripts get revised. For Reasons.

Arggh. Clearly we disagree. I can't argue with you, because I like that you have you're own ideas. I don't agree with them, but I'm not here to change them. I just wandered by to hear your views and respond with my own (equally valid) opinions.

I'm taking Ash at face value.

[BadExamp1e]

Yes, I know there can be reasons. I've read through the leaked script myself before release, and I was honestly excited regarding Ashley's content. She did have plenty to offer, content that would have done her justice and actually would have got her chatting on the Normandy. All of the other characters got to keep the majority of their content (if not all) but Ashley didn't. There is no real reason why she doesn't have at least more of hers. I'm calling that getting the shaft.

Modifié par BadExamp1e, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:49 .

[Sleepdribble]

O.K. I hear you.

But this bickering has derailed the thread, and my original point has been lost. In my first post I was giving my opinion on the writer's INTENTIONS and how I think they contribute to the so called 'hate' toward Ashley as mentioned in the OP.

I think the writers wanted to give a different 'romantic' experience to all playthroughs. I think that in the final draft, the writters INTENDED the Ash romances to sour for all but the hardiest of Shepards. In the same way that they INTENDED the Jacob romances end. In the same way that they INTENDED the Liara romances to grow stronger. In the same way that they INTENDED a romance with Thane would end in heartbreak.

I also think the writers underestimated the attachment many fans have toward their chosen LI. I'm reckon they just figured the player would think 'Love Interest No.1' didn't work out. Better start another game and see how 'Love Interest No.2' goes. That's not good.

[CptData]

MBE, you must admit, for a new player Ash is pretty much bland. We Ash fans love her 'cause we know who she was in ME1 and usually keep that imagine in ME3, so we might see more than others do. In fact: without ME1, I hardly would go after Ash. Liara is much more interesting and comes with far more content in early game, which is needed to hook up with a character.

Ash and Kaidan have those gread hospital scenes, but they're simply not enough to get in touch with both characters. Plus: you can easily miss them, if you're a new player. That means, you can't even save both in the Coup. You just get the impression of two hateful characters in worst case.

And if you don't miss the hospital scenes, they still feel far less important to you as a new player since you don't feel any special connection to Ash or Kaidan. In a way - as bad as it sounds, the truth is:

The presence of Ashley and Kaidan in Mass Effect 3 is pure fanservice to those who romanced them in Mass Effect 1. For players who started with the second game or even with the last part of the trilogy, both characters means nothing and could have been left out.

[o Ventus]

CptData wrote...

Didn't Ash say she wanted to meet Miranda in case Miri died in ME2?

Sanctuary, I believe.

[BadExamp1e]

Final Fantasy 13 Fangirl wrote...

CptData wrote...

Final Fantasy 13 Fangirl wrote...

I don't think that they will ever become friends. Look at how Ashley treats Shepard even though he barely worked for Cerberus and then quit. Miranda was Cerberus' second in command, I can only imagine what Ashley thinks about Miranda...

Big difference: Miranda didn't "betray" Ashley in her eyes, Shepard did. For Ash, Shepard was a darn fine soldier of the Alliance that faked his own death to defect (at least that's how it looks to her). Ashley simply doesn't know why Miranda joined Cerberus, but she never betrayed the Alliance.

That's the difference. If you don't romance both, Ashley has no real negative feelings towards Miranda. As I said, they might have a more or less frosty start since Miranda -was- the face of Cerberus, but since she left on her own for reasons she even might explain to Ash, I can see them slowly becoming closer up to friendship level. Especially since Miranda is also quite family loving (focused on her sis), a strong woman and several other traits she has in common with Ashley.

Didn't Ash say she wanted to meet Miranda in case Miri died in ME2?

I don't remember her saying that. What game did she say that in?

It was Ashley's Normandy-dialogue in ME3 which ended up getting cut.

Here it is:

Ashley: Hey, Shepard. I heard what happened. I know you two worked together, that she was someone you trusted. I wanted to say I'm sorry.
Shepard: It cost her everything, but she handed us Cerberus and shut down that place at the same time.
Ashley: I admit what she did was just about the gutsiest thing I've ever heard. Miranda sounded like somebody I would have liked to get to know better.
Shepard: You and her were a lot alike. Strong, opinionated, always came through.
Ashley: Something in common with a genetically perfect super-woman? Remind me of that next time I spill ketchup down the front of my uniform.
Shepard: Heh. Her father might have given her perfect DNA, but she was just as human as the rest of us.
Ashley: Her father sounds like a real peach.
Shepard: After seeing that, it makes me appreciate people like you Ash.
Ashley: Me? Why?
Shepard: You come from good, solid people. You see things that are wrong, and you try to make them right.

[sUiCiDeKiNgS13]

Who in the hell would get mad at their girlfriend for getting hotter over time?