288 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...


Drew was also responsible for ME1, half of ME2 production and all ME novels but Deception.

Guess what?
None planned ahead.

He also failed to create skeleton of the trilogy.



So, he's fails as well.

From what I've heard, Drew had a rough idea of where he wanted to take it with ME3, it involved the dark energy plot touched on in ME2. It was scrapped when Walters took over.

I've heard that as well. Unsurprisingly, I also heard it post-ME3 from people who held Drew up as a saint and Walters as the root of all bad writing in the ME universe.

Whatever it was, it couldn't have been any worse than what we got.

You can quite easily make the ending worse than what we got. Just have Shepard's war assets beat the Reapers in a conventional battle.

[CroGamer002]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

From what I've heard, Drew had a rough idea of where he wanted to take it with ME3, it involved the dark energy plot touched on in ME2. It was scrapped when Walters took over. Whatever it was, it couldn't have been any worse than what we got.

The idea came during development of ME2.


Why didn't he did that during development of ME1?

[Sarevok Synder]

Bleachrude wrote...

And I would argue that the dark energy plotline is even worse...

The reapers ensure that the organics use ME technoloy which hastens the end oft he galaxy and thus reap the organics to prevent this...

Um, how about not giving organics any ME technology in the first place...this would encourage the races to look at OTHER avenues of reseach....

We'll never know, what the details were is pure speculation. It involed the scrapped dark energy plot, that's all we know.

[Bleachrude]

I don't agree with the Catalyst...not sure WHY that is needed, but the rest like the Crucible, I have no problem with...basically the rest of the story is great and I like.

The Catalyst...yeah..that's a idea that should've been stopped.

[Ericus]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Not planning a story completely out ahead of time is not in and of itself a bad thing. Plenty of professional writers "go where the story takes them." Outlining the entire skeleton of a narrative isn't the ONLY way to tell stories, and many of my favorite writers don't do it that way. The key thing here though is to build upon the already established narrative. As long as a writer builds upon and stays consistent with the established narrative in previous intallments, or even within the same text, then that is a perfectly legitimate storytelling process.

I completely agree with this.  I'm not a writer, but the kind of work I do uses a very similar approach.

[CroGamer002]

Bleachrude wrote...

Isn't everyone assuming that ME1 would be a success that would ALLOW for a sequel?

I mean, unless you know for a fact that the ME1 is going to be a winner, you can't really sketch out, plan for the 2nd game much less the 3rd game.....

Bioware claimed they were ambitious with trilogy and written skeleton.

Both proven false.


It's just an evidence they had lack of ambition and were lazy.

As for the Avengers, um nope. The Avenger prequel movies (Captain America, Thor and Iron Man I&II) are all indepedent of each other....There's cameos and common characters across the 3 movies but you can fully enjoy Avengers without watching ANY of the other movies.

That's actually one of the bigger positives for the Avenger movies.....

Not the point.

Point is they planned all those movies ahead.

And guess what?
They're doing it with the Avengers 2.


Also, this is a problem not just with trilogy but with other ME games, comics and novels.
They're not planned ahead, as well.


The Avengers franchise does that and it's a smash hit.
Why?
Because they had ambition they'll succeed.

And not lazy.

And have good writers.

Modifié par Mesina2, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:43 .

[Sarevok Synder]

Mesina2 wrote...



The idea came during development of ME2.


Why didn't he did that during development of ME1?

Well, they didn't know if ME1 was going to be a success. I would say that's the main reason.

[Sarevok Synder]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I've heard that as well. Unsurprisingly, I also heard it post-ME3 from people who held Drew up as a saint and Walters as the root of all bad writing in the ME universe.


You can quite easily make the ending worse than what we got. Just have Shepard's war assets beat the Reapers in a conventional battle.

Where did I say Drew was a Saint? I was looking for consistency , we certainly didn't get that with ME3s plot.


Why not? In the reject ending, the following cycle most likely beat them conventionally anyway. Don't forget Liara said the crucible didn't work, so they had little reason to try that again.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 08 juillet 2012 - 02:57 .

[CroGamer002]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Well, they didn't know if ME1 was going to be a success. I would say that's the main reason.

It just proves how Bioware had little hopes on ME franchise.


Some much talk about being ambitions, yet nothing of it is shown.

[Sarevok Synder]

Mesina2 wrote...



It just proves how Bioware had little hopes on ME franchise.


Some much talk about being ambitions, yet nothing of it is shown.

I'm with you, Bioware have been relegated from my pre-order list, to wait and see. Depending on DA3, they might be on my ignore list.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 08 juillet 2012 - 03:06 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I've heard that as well. Unsurprisingly, I also heard it post-ME3 from people who held Drew up as a saint and Walters as the root of all bad writing in the ME universe.


You can quite easily make the ending worse than what we got. Just have Shepard's war assets beat the Reapers in a conventional battle.

Where did I say Drew was a Saint?

Where did I say you said that?

I was looking for consistency , we certainly didn't get that with ME3s plot.

For most of the plot we did. Good parts of the ending as well.

Why not? In the reject ending, the following cycle most likely beat them conventionally anyway. Don't forget Liara said the crucible didn't work, so they had little reason to try that again.

Liara just said that we couldn't make it work: that's the same as every other cycle that improved upon it.

If you believe twitter as word of god, the next cycle used the Crucible successfully, ie used it at all.

[thehomeworld]

Whatever plot they had for 3 unraveled because of the leaks they leaked 90% of the script so they had to make it up and we got machines will always eat their creators instead of dark energy.

[CroGamer002]

thehomeworld wrote...

Whatever plot they had for 3 unraveled because of the leaks they leaked 90% of the script so they had to make it up and we got machines will always eat their creators instead of dark energy.

Dark Energy was not in leaked script.

[Ryzaki]

Mesina2 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

Whatever plot they had for 3 unraveled because of the leaks they leaked 90% of the script so they had to make it up and we got machines will always eat their creators instead of dark energy.

Dark Energy was not in leaked script.

Nope it wasn't.

We got RGB in leaked script. Granted I believe relays only blew up in Destroy ending originally.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mesina2 wrote...

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Well, they didn't know if ME1 was going to be a success. I would say that's the main reason.

It just proves how Bioware had little hopes on ME franchise.


Some much talk about being ambitions, yet nothing of it is shown.

There a difference between hedging bets and not being ambitious.

[Sarevok Synder]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Where did I say you said that?

For most of the plot we did. Good parts of the ending as well.

Liara just said that we couldn't make it work: that's the same as every other cycle that improved upon it.

If you believe twitter as word of god, the next cycle used the Crucible successfully, ie used it at all.

You implied it.

Sure it was consistent, that's why Cerberus was main antagonist and not the Reapers. Starbrat was an ass pull. But yeah, other than that it was consistent.

I don't see twitter as the word of god, nowhere in the ending cinematic was it suggested the crucible was used, all we saw was Liara saying it didn't work. She said, WE BUILT THE CRUCIBLE, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK" It makes sense that the following cycle didn't try it and simply prepared better and earlier, it's not like the Reapers are indestructible, plenty were destroyed in this cycle, just Bioware ass covering again it seems.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 08 juillet 2012 - 04:37 .

[o Ventus]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

thehomeworld wrote...

Whatever plot they had for 3 unraveled because of the leaks they leaked 90% of the script so they had to make it up and we got machines will always eat their creators instead of dark energy.

Dark Energy was not in leaked script.

Nope it wasn't.

We got RGB in leaked script. Granted I believe relays only blew up in Destroy ending originally.

Wasn't dark energy in the initial leak (The "first" leak way-back-when)?

[Babyberry]

I am totally fine with not having a roadmap or whatever--having every little detail is going to be very difficult to plan out and in a game like this probably close to impossible.

BUT with that said, I feel that they didn't even know how to end the story, and as they rushed to finish it this is what they came up with. Any author needs to at least know how the story is going to end, even if you don't know how to get there.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't feel they knew how to end it, and threw what we got together at the last minute. So disappointing. =(

[o Ventus]

Babyberry wrote...

I am totally fine with not having a roadmap or whatever--having every little detail is going to be very difficult to plan out and in a game like this probably close to impossible.

BUT with that said, I feel that they didn't even know how to end the story, and as they rushed to finish it this is what they came up with. Any author needs to at least know how the story is going to end, even if you don't know how to get there.

Maybe it's just me, but I really don't feel they knew how to end it, and threw what we got together at the last minute. So disappointing. =(

Believe me, what we got is far from rushed. It has been the plan for at least 6 months before the game came out.

[Siansonea]

Don't write trilogies if you don't have something to say.

[Dean_the_Young]

Sarevok Synder wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Where did I say you said that?

For most of the plot we did. Good parts of the ending as well.

Liara just said that we couldn't make it work: that's the same as every other cycle that improved upon it.

If you believe twitter as word of god, the next cycle used the Crucible successfully, ie used it at all.

You implied it.

No, I didn't. I said I had heard the same thing from people who engage in the ridiculous absolutes of the writers, and I did.

You'd be a lot less insulted if you didn't read insults in things that aren't.

Sure it was consistent, that's why Cerberus was main antagonist and not the Reapers.

They weren't. 

I don't see twitter as the word of god, nowhere in the ending cinematic was it suggested the crucible was used, all we saw was Liara saying it didn't work. She said, WE BUILT THE CRUCIBLE, BUT IT DIDN'T WORK" It makes sense that the following cycle didn't try it and simply prepared better and earlier, it's not like the Reapers are indestructible, plenty were destroyed in this cycle, just Bioware ass covering again it seems.

It would also make sense for a civilization to figure out why the Crucible didn't work in case it was a technical or, as was indeed the case, user error.

The idea of a conventional victory alternative is just as absurd in a subsequent cycle as in this one because the Reapers will have just reset the Vanguard and Citadel system, and can open up as soon as they power disparity gets anywhere near too close. Even in a next-cycle-victory, a hidden project (such as the Crucible) remains the only viable strategy to overcome the Reaper strengths.

[Dean_the_Young]

o Ventus wrote...

Wasn't dark energy in the initial leak (The "first" leak way-back-when)?

Nope.

[Sarevok Synder]

Dean_the_Young wrote...





No, I didn't. I said I had heard the same thing from people who engage in the ridiculous absolutes of the writers, and I did.

You'd be a lot less insulted if you didn't read insults in things that aren't.

They weren't. 

It would also make sense for a civilization to figure out why the Crucible didn't work in case it was a technical or, as was indeed the case, user error.

The idea of a conventional victory alternative is just as absurd in a subsequent cycle as in this one because the Reapers will have just reset the Vanguard and Citadel system, and can open up as soon as they power disparity gets anywhere near too close. Even in a next-cycle-victory, a hidden project (such as the Crucible) remains the only viable strategy to overcome the Reaper strengths.

You said it in response to my comment, you absolutely implied it.

Of Course not, that's why over half the missions involved fighting Cerberus troops. And Starbrat was an ass pull, anybody disputing that is in denial.

They didn't even know what it did, then they're going to waste time creating it despite being told it didn't work? No, only an idiot would do that.

Not really, all they had to do was mine the S**t out of the space around the Citadel and mop up what was left. Turn the Reapers main weapon, surprise, against them. The Vanguard would be none the wiser. The only reason the Reapers were so effective was surprise, and inaction by the cycle species before it was too late.

Modifié par Sarevok Synder, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:53 .

[Fuzzfro]

They made a trilogy with a story that could fluctuate by choices AND THEY DIDN'T PLAN AHEAD.
Goodness gracious no wonder so many of the big decisions had no impact they made them without knowing what the hell they would ever lead too, they just implemented a choice and just thought they would come up with an idea later? that's a huge mistake. I really hope they learnt from that mistake and use that knowledge whenever they make another series with similar story elements to mass effect

[ld1449]

I do not write professionally. I write as a hobby. And even I know you start out with a general idea on how you're going to end the goddamn story. And if you DO change your ending mid way through its because the story has evolved, not by you just winging it mid game.

This is the person casey hudson picked for lead writer??? Seriously???