119 réponses à ce sujet

[A Wild Snorlax]

TBhthe BW is still a good weapon on infiltrators. But between the removal of weak spots on bosses, and the additions of stuff like grenade gear and new more powerful weapons + shotguns bypassing shield gate + health buffs to some enemies i just don't see the point of it anymore.

BW infiltrator was top tier when the game first came out. No it's simply ''good'', it works but there are no clear benefits to picking a bw infiltrator. Also, the BW is pretty much crap on non infiltrators so there's another nail in the coffin.

[Princess Rolf]

The BW is rubbish compared to my Saber!

Utterly pointless to use my BW IV, when my SAber VII have 8 rounds/clip, no scope, less recoil, CQ-worthy and 50 spare ammo, and does more damage.

[rmccowen]

Princess Rolf wrote...

The BW is rubbish compared to my Saber!

Utterly pointless to use my BW IV, when my SAber VII have 8 rounds/clip, no scope, less recoil, CQ-worthy and 50 spare ammo, and does more damage.

Your BW 4 actually does about 10% more damage per round than your Saber 7, and it's much more accurate. The Saber also isn't a sniper, which means it doesn't benefit from the (still fantastic) Evolution 6 of Tactical Cloak.

The BW's place is in the hands of an Infiltrator, where it hits like an orbital nuke.

[Rolenka]

KiraTsukasa wrote...

I haven't seen the point to the Black Widow since the Valiant.

[INVADERONE]

exxtrooper wrote...

 After the Tactical Cloak "balance" change I really don't see the point of this gun anymore.

It feels incredibly weak, doesn't even take down a single armor column against atlases (pre-cerberus buff) anymore and can't even one-shot regular mooks.

Why even have the gun in the game? It feels incredibly unfair as it took me 2 months to even unlock the damn thing and now that I finally had it in high enough level it is rendered useless after the patch.

Before the balance changes were supposed to make more guns useful/viable, now it seems to be the other way around.

The end of this multiplayer is coming.

I totally agree. I am not a big infiltrator player but I did take the widow/infiltrator combo out to battle the other night on Gold and it was ridiculous. One shot to the head to take down a Nemesis shields...she still had full health...and another to ALMOST kill her to then finally a third shot to kill her. I have no need of this weapon any longer which is weird as those sniper rifles should be extremely powerful as it makes sense for them to be.

[Princess Rolf]

rmccowen wrote...

Princess Rolf wrote...

The BW is rubbish compared to my Saber!

Utterly pointless to use my BW IV, when my SAber VII have 8 rounds/clip, no scope, less recoil, CQ-worthy and 50 spare ammo, and does more damage.

Your BW 4 actually does about 10% more damage per round than your Saber 7, and it's much more accurate. The Saber also isn't a sniper, which means it doesn't benefit from the (still fantastic) Evolution 6 of Tactical Cloak.

The BW's place is in the hands of an Infiltrator, where it hits like an orbital nuke.

Here are my stats for my Saber VII, compared to BW IV

Saber VII
Damage 624
Capacity 50
Weight 1.50
Clip Size 8
Rate of Fire 80.0 (RPM)
Accuracy 75.0
Burst DPS 831.9
Sustained DPS 560.9
Reload Cancelled DPS 680.6
Reload Time 2.9 (s)
Recoil 0.8


BW IV
Damage 696
Capacity 18
Weight 2.20
Clip Size 3
Rate of Fire 60.0 (RPM)
Accuracy 75.0
Burst DPS 696.2
Sustained DPS 349.8
Reload Cancelled DPS 477.4
Reload Time  3.0 (s)
Recoil5.5



Yes I know the Saber isn´t a SR, but it is far better then the BW, anyhow. As you clearly can see.

Modifié par Princess Rolf, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:18 .

[millerm277]

INVADERONE wrote...

exxtrooper wrote...

 After the Tactical Cloak "balance" change I really don't see the point of this gun anymore.

It feels incredibly weak, doesn't even take down a single armor column against atlases (pre-cerberus buff) anymore and can't even one-shot regular mooks.

Why even have the gun in the game? It feels incredibly unfair as it took me 2 months to even unlock the damn thing and now that I finally had it in high enough level it is rendered useless after the patch.

Before the balance changes were supposed to make more guns useful/viable, now it seems to be the other way around.

The end of this multiplayer is coming.

I totally agree. I am not a big infiltrator player but I did take the widow/infiltrator combo out to battle the other night on Gold and it was ridiculous. One shot to the head to take down a Nemesis shields...she still had full health...and another to ALMOST kill her to then finally a third shot to kill her. I have no need of this weapon any longer which is weird as those sniper rifles should be extremely powerful as it makes sense for them to be.

It's never been a good gun for shooting Nemesis with, they move around too much. If anything, cloak, heavy melee, then point blank shoot her while she's staggered.

BW/Inf in good hands is still a combo that will do well on gold, and will be up in the top in scoring. I wouldn't carry it on anything but an Infiltrator, of course.

[UKStory135]

RNG gave me upgrades to my Javelin, BW, and Indra on the day the nerf happened so that I didn't notice as much of a difference as I normally would have with them.

The two things I noticed with the cloak were the following:

The Valiant was hit really hard with it. IMHO, it went from being a gold viable top tier weapon to being a bronze/silver sniper rifle for beginners.

Secondly, weapon weight matters, now. I was using a valiant/reegar combo on half of my Infiltrators. Now I'm using a BW/ GPSMG on my human female and Salarian Infiltrator, and a GPS only on all of the others. To be honest, that's probably not a bad thing.

Even before the TC nerf, the only reason to carry a SR in this game, was because you liked Sniper Rifles. Heavy Pistols and Shotguns are better in almost every situation.

[rmccowen]

Princess Rolf wrote...

rmccowen wrote...

Your BW 4 actually does about 10% more damage per round than your Saber 7, and it's much more accurate.

Here are my stats for my Saber VII, compared to BW IV

Saber VII
Damage 624
Capacity 50
Weight 1.50
Clip Size 8
Rate of Fire 80.0 (RPM)
Accuracy 75.0
Burst DPS 831.9
Sustained DPS 560.9
Reload Cancelled DPS 680.6
Reload Time 2.9 (s)
Recoil 0.8


BW IV
Damage 696
Capacity 18
Weight 2.20
Clip Size 3
Rate of Fire 60.0 (RPM)
Accuracy 75.0
Burst DPS 696.2
Sustained DPS 349.8
Reload Cancelled DPS 477.4
Reload Time  3.0 (s)
Recoil5.5

Yes I know the Saber isn´t a SR, but it is far better then the BW, anyhow. As you clearly can see.

You're running off Grimy Bunyip's stats, which are playtested, rather than Tangster's which are pulled from the Coalesced.bin file. There are arguments for the validity of both, but what I want to point out is that the BW's damage per round is, in fact, about 10% higher. The difference is 72 damage, which after applying the Infiltrator's massive modifiers turns into 200+. Applying the SI and GI's Proximity Mine bonus increases it further.

Meanwhile, the BW's clip size fits quite nicely into the window of Tactical Cloak's damage boost, and its reload time also coincidentally is the same as the minimum cooldown for TC.

Again, I'm not saying the Saber is a bad weapon, and on anything other than an Infiltrator you have a good argument for using the Saber 7 over the BW 4. But the title of the thread is "What is the point of the Black Widow...?", and in context the BW still has a pretty clear application. It's a weapon that's designed to work well on Infiltrators, and it continues to do so.

(Full disclosure: I run the BW on my SI, but my FQI uses a Valiant or Viper depending on my mood, and my GI runs light with a Paladin. You're welcome to use whatever you want, too, and I hvae no doubt you're very successful with the Saber--and it's applicable across multiple classes, instead of being essentially restrictedto the Infiltrator context.)

[CmnDwnWrkn]

The Krysae being introduced as a Rare, as opposed to UR, really threw off the balance of Sniper Rifles. Everything about that weapon screams "Ultra Rare," yet it is obviously far easier to get a Krysae X than a Black Widow X.

[Creakazoid]

rmccowen wrote...


Yes I know the Saber isn´t a SR, but it is far better then the BW, anyhow. As you clearly can see. You're running off Grimy Bunyip's stats, which are playtested, rather than Tangster's which are pulled from the Coalesced.bin file. There are arguments for the validity of both, but what I want to point out is that the BW's damage per round is, in fact, about 10% higher. The difference is 72 damage, which after applying the Infiltrator's massive modifiers turns into 200+. Applying the SI and GI's Proximity Mine bonus increases it further.

Not jumping into this fray either way, but those numbers are based on Tangster's stats and my calculations.

Modifié par Creakazoid, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:36 .

[rmccowen]

Creakazoid wrote...

rmccowen wrote...


Yes I know the Saber isn´t a SR, but it is far better then the BW, anyhow. As you clearly can see. You're running off Grimy Bunyip's stats, which are playtested, rather than Tangster's which are pulled from the Coalesced.bin file. There are arguments for the validity of both, but what I want to point out is that the BW's damage per round is, in fact, about 10% higher. The difference is 72 damage, which after applying the Infiltrator's massive modifiers turns into 200+. Applying the SI and GI's Proximity Mine bonus increases it further.

Not jumping into this fray either way, but those numbers are based on Tangster's stats and my calculations.

This puzzled me for a moment, but then I read your sig and realized you're the script guy. My hat's off to you, actually. I assumed the poster was using the tool I don't use, and forgot for a minute about the extension (which I have installed).

But this is also a decent time to ask: what does the "accuracy" stat mean, here? Tangster's sheet uses the coalesced values, which are not exactly user-friendly to interpret, but you've rolled them up into a single stat. What do you do to get that number?

...and I really wasn't trying to start a fray. Not in this thread, anyway.

[Creakazoid]

rmccowen wrote...
But this is also a decent time to ask: what does the "accuracy" stat mean, here? Tangster's sheet uses the coalesced values, which are not exactly user-friendly to interpret, but you've rolled them up into a single stat. What do you do to get that number?

Accuracy is what Tangster has labeled Stat Bar Acc.. So, it's the rolled-into-one display stat that the game uses for simplicity's sake. The component accuracy stats are just too numerous to display in an easily interpretable manner so I left it at that.

[lpconfig]

WolfishSpartan wrote...

BW w/cloak bonus does 1 shot trooper level mobs and unshielded centurions on gold last time I checked :/

Correct.  Using expert package gear (+tech, + sniper)  I can get one shot body shots on troopers, and one shots on energy drained centurions, nemesis, and engineers.  No headshots required for any of them actually.  Phantoms require headshots however.  Valiant will not do this, and also has no built in cover penetration.

Modifié par newman982, 09 juillet 2012 - 05:01 .

[WaffleCrab]

[quote]exxtrooper wrote...

[quote]WaffleCrab wrote...

[quote]exxtrooper wrote...

[quote]WaffleCrab wrote...

[quote]exxtrooper wrote...

[quote]WaffleCrab wrote...

[quote]joker_jack wrote...

[quote]WaffleCrab wrote...

[quote]Ashen Earth wrote...

[quote]WaffleCrab wrote...

[quote]Immortal Strife wrote...

My biggest issue with all the changes and weapon introduction (Krysae) is that accuracy is less rewarding now. Shield gate, no boss headshot/weak points, the Krysae AoE, the clamore and reager doing more damage than snipers, all contribute to a multiplayer mode that is geared for less precision; I really don't see how Bioware views such "Balance" as more fun.[/quote]

Agreed

[quote] CaptainTeabag wrote...

BW is kinda lame in comparison to the Valiant and Krysae
[/quote]

Spoken like a person who has no idea how to utilize said weapon

[/quote]

The Black Widow, and Valiant both suck compared to the Krysae which does more damage, has an AoE, requires virtually no aim and is lighter.

And I can assure you I know how to utilize both the Black Widow and the Valiant.

[/quote]

doesnt seem like it, since i can take down the bosses down faster with my BW 2 than you with your krysae 10.

[/quote]

I've outshot valient, bw users with the krysae. Also done the same with bw, canfex and palidan. Anyone good at head shotting can. Your point? 

[/quote]

my point is, what i have been saying dozens of times, no such thing as a bad gun, just a player who doesnt know how to utilize them, the other poster didnt seem to understand that some guns arent meant for everyone

[/quote]

Explain Viper.

[/quote]

Prefered gun till i got Saber, I used it for combat sniper builds when i needed more punch than mattock. Till i unlocked Saber.

[/quote]

The carnifex has less weight, more damage, less recoil, faster right of fire etc. There is literally absolutely no reason to ever touch this gun whatsoever.

[/quote]

your so full of ****, at lvx they both do the same damage, carny being less accurate(by about 15-20%), slightly less heavy, and carnifex does not get the damage bonus from scoped shots, has slightly faster fire rate than viper though, but less max ammo. Also the piercing mod difference is significant, 1,1 meters with 40% damage reduction on heavy pistols, 1,35 meters and 30% damage reduction on sniper rifles. so get your facts right before you start saying **** like you said before. You are 10 years early trying to lecture people on weapon choices. When making a combat sniper, viper beats carnifex hands down.

Edit: put a piece of paper at the end of the damage bar on your screen, hold it there, switch between lvx carny and viper if you got difficulties believing me. that is about as simple way i can tell you how to confirm this yourself.

[/quote]

In-game stat bars aren't always completely accurate. Carnifex does 276.1 - 345.1 damage while Viper does 265.5 - 332 damage, so you're wrong on that note. Carnifex less accurate by 15-20%? Where did you get those numbers from, the paper you put on your screen? Only slightly faster rate of fire? Carnifex fire 100 RPM while Viper fires only at 70 RPM, that's a 30% difference, it's like having a free marksman bonus!

Viper doesn't get a damage bonus from "scoped" shots, snipers only do less damage while they're not scoped, so yet again you are wrong.  Oh we're talking about penetration power now? Because weapons efficency are based on how much they can penetrate as opposed to weight, damage, recoil and such? Well this obviously makes the Javelin the best gun in the game, as it has the highest penetration in the entire game, so why not use the Javelin over the Viper then?

We're making a combat sniper now? How exciting! I was unaware that you could make weapons in this game! Let's make a combat shotgun instead that sounds a lot more fun then a sniper rifle!

Though in terms of the snipers that exist, I'm pretty sure the low rate of fire, low damage, low penetration on the Viper wouldn't make it a good "combat sniper", seeing as there are lots of weapons that beat it in terms of, pretty much everything really.

Also 10 years early? I must get up really early in the morning!

[quote]WaffleCrab wrote...

 so get your facts right before you start saying **** like you said before.

[/quote]

Well, looking at how many of your arguments were wrong, I belive you are the one who needs to get your "facts" right.

Did I mention you were wrong?
[/quote]

if you are mentally so undeveloped that you could not comprehend that it was an estimate on the accuracy, cant help you there. Also i did not use raw numbers on the fire rate for a reason as without a scope mod the carnifex cant reliably hit things if you keep tapping the button to get the max fire rate. while with viper, you can. I thought you might have realized that nonscoped you can still do the same damage as a carny or rather close, while when you zoom in and do a scoped shot, hence get the benefit of it, you do the full amount of damage. And i still trust the damage bar over your own damage calc, since i seem to be doing more damage with, and more reliably:whistle:

for what comes to penetration, it is handy for a combat sniper class(adding the class here since you seem to be too slow to realize i meant a class not a "combat sniper" as a weapon i would have said "combat sniper rifle" if i had meant it for the weapon, but meh, gues your not all there.) while having light weight. And in terms of recoil from what i have experienced carnifex seems to have it worse.

Did i mention that i still manage to outperform carnifex users with the weapon? and i mainly do it for the lulz.

Also notice how i used it only till i unlocked better weaponry, i never said it would be the do it all sniper rifle. I said it serves its purpose till you unlock other things. But i gues you got too thick of a skull to understand it.
Also did i mention you are wrong too
Gues that makes us both wrong, and on about as many things as the other.

Also a note on the damage bar, i have found it to be more reliable than the numbers floating around, since back in the day when i did a comparison on gold with a couple of guns, found the damage bar to be more reliable measure of damage in relation to other weapons. But hey, i am not gonan cram it down your throat, i might get shunned for forumite abuse.

But yeah in the end i crab this weapon over carnifex on my bat sent or turian sol when i want to use a combat sniper build, rather than carnifex. As it fits me better and i dont have to wait for the recoil to pass like on carnifex to hit things. You asked for an explanation on the weapon, i gave it to you, you argued, i argued, end of story.

[GGW KillerTiger]

Black Widow = Worst sniper sense the MP BETA in the Single Player DEMO

[WaffleCrab]

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

The Krysae being introduced as a Rare, as opposed to UR, really threw off the balance of Sniper Rifles. Everything about that weapon screams "Ultra Rare," yet it is obviously far easier to get a Krysae X than a Black Widow X.

remember the good days when indra was uncommon?... sigh i would be totally cool if they made krysae UR but damn... indra needs to be rare, it isnt as goodly weapon as BW thinks it is :S

[BobWalt]

Rotacioskapa wrote...

It's pointless becuase of the krysae and the reegar carbine. And those are just Rares.

No because the Krysae is not as much fun as it requires no finesse and the Reegar is only good close in.  The problelm with the BW is it is too heavy so it really needs to be at a mid level before it it truly useful.

[WaffleCrab]

BobWalt wrote...

Rotacioskapa wrote...

It's pointless becuase of the krysae and the reegar carbine. And those are just Rares.

No because the Krysae is not as much fun as it requires no finesse and the Reegar is only good close in.  The problelm with the BW is it is too heavy so it really needs to be at a mid level before it it truly useful.

not to mention if theres like a random cannibal or a swarm of swarmers in front of say a brute, theres a good chance you hit them before landing a shot on the brute, which is why the gun basically is forcing you to carry the ammo cap. mod on gold.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Run it on a Human Soldier and frickin' grow a quad.