226 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

chemiclord wrote...

.  That's empty pandering... anyone can do that.

Yup, we have had so many WoW killers that worked, haven't we ?


PS: What you say is true.. It is impossible to make everyone happy, all the time. Precisely for that reason, the TRUST you have that your voice will be heard is very important. On WoW they manage to make 10 million people of very different backgrounds "happy" not because every single user is getting exactly what they want. But because every single user believes the game maker wants to make a good game for them. They trust they are being heard. They believe if one thing is not to their liking, then there is a good reason for it. 

I was never told my preferred way of tanking "cheapened" and "trivialized" the game. Not by anyone at Blizzard, by users ? Heh, best not remember the namecalling . I was told it here by Tully Auckland from Bioware. It was shocking to say the least.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:00 .

[chemiclord]

Renmiri1 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

.  That's empty pandering... anyone can do that.

Yup, we have had so many WoW killers that worked, haven't we ?

Pretty much because "I don't want to waste all the time invested in WoW to play something else."

That's WoW's hook, really.  Pretty much their ONLY hook at this point.  "Do you REALLY want all those phat purples you've earned over the years to go to waste?"

They aren't attracting all that many new customers (and that 10 million users is a bit misleading at that.  I'M still being counted as a "player" even though I haven't touched WoW in about a year and a half).  They're entire focus now is getting OLD players BACK and spending $15 a month again.

Modifié par chemiclord, 09 juillet 2012 - 12:56 .

[Wayning_Star]

chemiclord wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

I'm one of the 10 million. I eat at McD sometimes. I'm on battle.net. I recently bought ME2 and ME3 and got an account  here.

I was honestly shocked with the way customer input is treated here. I opposed the WoW thanking threat change during their beta. I was NEVER treated with contempt by devs or moderators. I opposed and supported a lot of things during my several years raiding on WoW. Some of them I got, some of them I didn't. I still have a lot of things I complain about , and a lot of things I love. I try to stop playing it but it draws me back in.

The thing that drew me back into WoW this time was ME3. On WoW,  I get the confidence that the devs want to make a good game for me. That they are not out there just to take my money and call me dumb for not getting their "art". Here  ? Not so much...

You haven't been treated with "contempt" by devs here, either.  You just want to THINK you have been, because they're sticking with a creative vision you particularly don't like.

Bioware HAS listened to you.  They don't agree.  If you don't like it, LEAVE.  That's how you show them, not by complaining about it on their forums and trying to compare apples to oranges.

Blizzard doesn't give one-tenth of one **** about giving you a "good game."  They will give you whatever you want so that you keep spending $15 a month.  That's empty pandering... anyone can do that.

It's the drawback to providing an interactive entertainment product, the 'personal' feelings comes in when people feel their 'interactivity' was limited by the product and the providers of that product just says "so?", pick a number. In the case of ME, the game designers built ON that interactivity, and even to a point 'exaggerated' the interactivity and then limited the promised interactivity. The tension over the story of the game everyone so enjoyed, just seemed like another 'ploy' or advertizing padding. The anticipated fun became stress/duress..all returning to the company as negative feedback.The EC, or any promises they make, will come back as a hot patch. I think the co will have to make a sequel to the ME game to get out of the rut they've trenched in the video game market, as it's far broader now, as more former fans becomes critics. Become the 'Blame Bioware/EA crowd'.

[chemiclord]

magnetite wrote...

The fans used a phrase for this called "lorelol" or something along those lines.

Pretty much it.  99% of WoW's player base couldn't give one rat's ass about the game's lore.  Blizzard cares about it even less... they'll make any change the few that DO care because it keeps them happy and subscribing.  Frankly, I find that a very poor approach to storytelling.  ANYONE can do that.

[Renmiri1]

chemiclord wrote...


Pretty much because "I don't want to waste all the time invested in WoW to play something else."

That's WoW's hook, really.  Pretty much their ONLY hook at this point.  "Do you REALLY want all those phat purples you've earned over the years to go to waste?"

Hmmm.. you do know your purples are useless now, with Tier 13 out, right ? 

What you fail to see is that the argument works both ways. People here have invested YEARS into Mass Effect.  And that is why they are furious.

I haven't, I bought it at ME3 launch and I'm already pissed at ME3 ignoring so much of the previous games. I  can't imagine how people who have been loving and supporting the series for years feel!!! And the answers from Bioware's PR are atrocious! I barely wasted 2-3 months on the series and it already makes my blood boil

chemiclord wrote...

 they'll make any change the few that DO care because it keeps them happy and subscribing

 
That is precisely my point. They listen to fans, no matter how small the group is. For a company that has 10 million customers, is quite impressive. Makes a smaller company that thinks telling fans "deal with it" is wise look.. dumb.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:11 .

[English Cooper]

Wouldn't fixing complaints be more cost effective for a MMORPG over a mostly Single Player game though?

MMORPG's have a steady 'income' of subscriptions, Single Player you buy once and then that is it.. Except DLC which they need to start working on as soon as the game is out

[chemiclord]

Renmiri1 wrote...
Hmmm.. you do know your purples are useless now, with Tier 13 out, right ? 

What you fail to see is that the argument works both ways. People here have invested YEARS into Mass Effect.  And that is why they are furious.

I haven't, I bought it at ME3 launch and I'm already pissed at ME3 ignoring so much of the previous games. I  can't imagine how people who have been loving and supporting the series for years feel!!! And the answers from Bioware's PR are atrocious! I barely waste 2-3 months on the series and it already makes my blood boil!

I do not begrudge you one bit for being dissatisfied with ME3, and especially it's ending.  I'm not particularly fond of it myself, and I find the endings, even with the EC, to be tolerable at best.

What I am taking you to task on is using WoW as an example of how Bioware should tell their stories.  Blizzard DOESN'T CARE about WoW's story.  They'll do and change anything because at this point, Metzen and his crew has absolutely NO investment in the game's lore.

If you were to actually lay out and try to read the story for World of Warcraft, it would resemble an awful, hideous first-draft looking abortion of continuity and logical narrative flow.  If they were to actually TRY to make WoW into a single-player, story driven game at this point, it would arguably be one of the WORST games to ever be produced.

I'm talking Ultima IX level of lore breaking here.  Yes, WoW's story is THAT BAD at this point. 

That is NOT the method I want a story-driven game to feel they have to follow because you like how WoW responds to issues of game mechanics.

I may not like ME3's endings, but I respect Bioware's right to tell their story how they see fit, and respect that they actually DO care about it, even in the face of fan hate.

Modifié par chemiclord, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:18 .

[Renmiri1]

I don't get the sense that Bioware cares about MY gaming. I do get this sense about Blizzard.

And that is the trust issue I have been talking about. Getting 10 million people to agree on something is pretty much impossible, as you can see by the battle.net forums! But each and everyone of the people on them feels that they are respected and listened SOME OF THE TIME, and not disrespected and condescended to MOST OF THE TIME.

[Jamie9]

I despise Blizzard. Their business practices have been not slowly, but rapidly getting worse for the better part of the last 5 years.

Diablo 3 had always on-DRM, even on single player. It also had a real money Auction House.

Frankly, I can't wait until people open their eyes.

[chemiclord]

Renmiri1 wrote...

I don't get the sense that Bioware cares about MY gaming. I do get this sense about Blizzard.

And that is the trust issue I have been talking about. Getting 10 million people to agree on something is pretty much impossible, as you can see by the battle.net forums! But each and everyone of the people on them feels that they are respected and listened SOME OF THE TIME, and not disrespected and condescended to MOST OF THE TIME.

And here's the other problem.

You HAVEN'T been disrespected.  You just want to THINK you have been.

Listening to you does NOT mean they will agree with you.  If anything, Bioware has listened entirely TOO MUCH to their fans.  A lot of the problems groups of fans have now are pretty much the result of ENDLESS COMPLAINING earlier down the line by different groups of fans.

Blizzard doesn't care about your gaming, either.  They care about your $15 a month.  They'll do ANYTHING, even completely contradict themselves, to keep that $15 coming their way.  For a game entirely driven on game mechanics, that's fine.  For a game driven by story-telling, it would be a disaster.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Modifié par chemiclord, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:30 .

[Renmiri1]

Jamie9 wrote...

I despise Blizzard. Their business practices have been not slowly, but rapidly getting worse for the better part of the last 5 years.

Diablo 3 had always on-DRM, even on single player. It also had a real money Auction House.

Frankly, I can't wait until people open their eyes.

Sadly the entire gaming industry has been going downhill

Ya, hate always on DRM too. And the real money AH. But at least until now, Blizzard has always reverted it's course if things don't work out, so I'm hoping / waiting for a change there.

Losing hope for any change here though 

[Renmiri1]

Renmiri1 wrote...

[ snip ]

I was never told my preferred way of tanking "cheapened" and "trivialized" the game. Not by anyone at Blizzard, by users ? Heh, best not remember the namecalling . I was told it here by Tully Auckland from Bioware. It was shocking to say the least.

That felt like disrespect and condescenscion to me. Maybe you like to be called names like that. I don't

[Jamie9]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Sadly the entire gaming industry has been going downhill

Ya, hate always on DRM too. And the real money AH. But at least until now, Blizzard has always reverted it's course if things don't work out, so I'm hoping / waiting for a change there.

Losing hope for any change here though 

Yep, and until they do take those off, I refuse to buy Diablo 3.

I mean come on, always on DRM isn't even a viable option down-the-line. What if I went into my loft in 2035 and pulled out Diablo 3 for nostalgia. Put it into my amazing PC of the future, and find that they disconnected the servers 10 years ago.

It just doesn't make sense.

[chemiclord]

Renmiri1 wrote...

That felt like disrespect and condescenscion to me. Maybe you like to be called names like that. I don't

I'd love to see this post, because I suspect what was ACTUALLY said was a wee bit different than how you decided to interpret it.

[xsdob]

Where's the condescension that keeps getting brought up? I'm honestly lost on that but everyone else seems to get it.

So okay, I'll bite as the odd man out, what's the inside thing I'm not seeing.

[English Cooper]

xsdob wrote...

Where's the condescension that keeps getting brought up? I'm honestly lost on that but everyone else seems to get it.

So okay, I'll bite as the odd man out, what's the inside thing I'm not seeing.

Yeah I have never seen it either myself.

[xsdob]

Well, where are you guys now? Why don't you answer?

EDIT: You guys just get bored? Okay than.

Modifié par xsdob, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:12 .

[Memnon]

chemiclord wrote...

Pretty much because "I don't want to waste all the time invested in WoW to play something else."

You really believe this? That WoW has so many subscribers because nobody wants to ... waste time playing something else? If there was a better game out there, it would take over,simple as that. I don't play WoW anymore, but I've played a ton of others from Rift to even SWTOR, and none of them have held my interest longer than a few months - compared to WoW which I played for years. I WANT to find another MMO, and nothing has been as fun as WoW ...

Modifié par Stornskar, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:09 .

[Renmiri1]

xsdob wrote...

Well, where are you guys now? Why don't you answer?

Something called real life 


Is around his posts and he wasn't the only one...

http://social.biowar...3076/1#12800332

[xsdob]

Renmiri1 wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Well, where are you guys now? Why don't you answer?

Something called real life 


Is around his posts and he wasn't the only one...

http://social.biowar...3076/1#12800332

Can't see it, please help me if you can.

[Renmiri1]

http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12793076/1#12800332

[chemiclord]

Ooooookay...

This... disrespected you... HOW... exactly?

It sounds like he's actually giving a fairly detailed reason why the writing staff chose to resolve a story arc in a particular way.  I see absolutely NO insult or condescension here.  It's in fact remarkably VOID of any incendiary language. 

Or is the disrespect simply because it wasn't resolved the way you wanted it resolved?

Modifié par chemiclord, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:20 .

[Memnon]

Renmiri1 wrote...

http:/social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12793076/1#12800332

I haven't exactly been an ardent defender of Bioware since ME3, but I don't find anything disrespectful there ...