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Geth or Quarians: An Issue of Morals


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#351
moater boat

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Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

People really don't pay attention do they. Saying the Geth sided with reapers twice. WOw, just wow.

Only the heretics sided with the reapers. That was only 5%-10% of the Geth. The second time, they were pushed to the brink of extinction.


The heretics sided with the Reapers, and the orthodox Geth said "Ok, sure, have fun destroying all sentient life. We are totally OK with that" the second time, THEY STILL SIDED WITH THE REAPERS!!! It doesn't matter if they were losing a war. If you had to choose between you yourself dying, or millions of innocents, which one would you choose?

The Geth are self centered scum that don't care about organics and therefor have no place in the galactic community.

#352
Ender Ghost

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moater boat wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

People really don't pay attention do they. Saying the Geth sided with reapers twice. WOw, just wow.

Only the heretics sided with the reapers. That was only 5%-10% of the Geth. The second time, they were pushed to the brink of extinction.


The heretics sided with the Reapers, and the orthodox Geth said "Ok, sure, have fun destroying all sentient life. We are totally OK with that" the second time, THEY STILL SIDED WITH THE REAPERS!!! It doesn't matter if they were losing a war. If you had to choose between you yourself dying, or millions of innocents, which one would you choose?

The Geth are self centered scum that don't care about organics and therefor have no place in the galactic community.


Well for the most part the heretics hadn't really done anything galaxy threatening until they attacked the citadel so its was more of "Oh have fun messing around on fringe worlds with a "god"- oh crap!" and the second time it was "These Quarians invaded our solar system, killed millions of us, and all during a Reaper invasion, lets get some help quick!"

Really I don't care how desprete the Quarians were, if they lasted for 300 years they surely could have waited a few more weeks to move in with the Geth in a more diplomatic way.

Modifié par Ender Ghost, 09 juillet 2012 - 09:34 .


#353
CronoDragoon

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The "they sided with the Reapers only because they were about to be wiped out" argument doesn't cut it. They are still traitors. Now, would the quarians have become traitors to the galaxy and joined the Reapers if the geth had them on the brink of extinction? I doubt it.

#354
Ender Ghost

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CronoDragoon wrote...

The "they sided with the Reapers only because they were about to be wiped out" argument doesn't cut it. They are still traitors. Now, would the quarians have become traitors to the galaxy and joined the Reapers if the geth had them on the brink of extinction? I doubt it.


I don't consider the Geth traitors, the Quarians were on the verge of returning to Rannoch after I brokered peace between them in ME2, then when the Reapers invade then they go and attack the Geth, well sure! Thats what my allies should do, instigate a fight with their teammate when the enemy arrives, brilliant!

If you ask me I say the Quarian admirals (except one) were indoctrinated. The geth acted in selfdefence and I would do exactly what they did if it were me.

#355
CronoDragoon

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Ender Ghost wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The "they sided with the Reapers only because they were about to be wiped out" argument doesn't cut it. They are still traitors. Now, would the quarians have become traitors to the galaxy and joined the Reapers if the geth had them on the brink of extinction? I doubt it.


I don't consider the Geth traitors, the Quarians were on the verge of returning to Rannoch after I brokered peace between them in ME2, then when the Reapers invade then they go and attack the Geth, well sure! Thats what my allies should do, instigate a fight with their teammate when the enemy arrives, brilliant!

If you ask me I say the Quarian admirals (except one) were indoctrinated. The geth acted in selfdefence and I would do exactly what they did if it were me.


Geekalogy: So the elves attack the dwarves and are close to wiping them out. In response you would advise the dwarves to join Sauron?

#356
andy6915

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I'm just going to point out, the Quarians weren't at all forced to go to war like some people are saying. They weren't just innocent people dragged into a war they didn't want, the majority of non-admiral Quarians wanted the war.

My proof? It takes a unanimous vote by the admiralty board to overrule the conclave, and a unanimous vote for war would NOT have happened because there's no way in hell Koris would have voted yes to the war. Which means that the civilian branch, the Conclave, only needed to vote against the admiralty board to have the war not happen. If the civilians had told the admirals to screw off with their war idea, there would have been no war.

So the Quarians did want the war badly, or they would have shot it down and stopped it. They're not innocents being dragged into the war by the admirals, they're just as willing and wanting as Gerrel was.

#357
4stringwizard

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This whole topic has been debated to death. I'm convinced that people are pretty much set in their views and no amount of persuasion is going to convince them of either side. Although, it seems less people favor the Geth now than at the start (probably because they actually thought about the Geth's actions in context instead of blindly swallowing what Bioware told them they should be feeling).

I will say this much, I was very disappointed in Bioware's ham-fisted method of delivering the story. It wasn't balanced at all, it was more like they were screaming "GETH GOOD!!! QUARIANS BAD!!11!" Meanwhile, you still spend three whole games gunning the Geth down left and right, and Legion's character does a complete 180 from the way he was in ME2. When asked why he sided with the Reapers all he says was "it was a hard decision." Kinda thought Bioware would have given us a little better explanation than that.

#358
spirosz

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I'd save da geth, cause it's da hip-a-dop-a-thing to do, ya feel me broheem.

#359
capn233

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In the one game I did that wasn't an import (new character) I chose the Geth. The Geth VI gave a practical argument about how the Geth would give you the best chance to retake Earth.

As for the Quarians, there isn't really any merit to the "it's all their fault" line of thinking. At least not enough to use that as an excuse to allow the Geth to wipe them out.

#360
RedWolf95

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So far I have always brokered peace, but if I had to choose, I'd go with quarians because I couldn't watch Tali kill herself.

#361
Xariann

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In my first playthrough I couldn't broker peace as I skipped the Geth Server mission. I chose the Geth because throughout history it felt like they were the ones that were attacked every time. Although it's very "organic-like" (as you can't really say "human" in this case) to be scared of AI surpassing you and possibly enslaving YOU, the majority of the Geth have never shown desire to attack organics.

Yes, the heretics have chosen to oppose organics, but the question remains: would they have done so if the Quarians didn't attack them in the first place? 

The Quarians have done the equivalent of trying to get rid of a clandestine child after he's born. That said I don't hate the Quarians, because their fears are justified. The Geth could have evolved to the same point of the Reapers, who "rebelled" against their creators (when only the Catalyst was in existence) and turned them into the first Reaper. But the Catalyst was programmed with the intent of controlling chaos, it was programmed to harvest organic life. Geth weren't, they were programmed to help the Quarians. Like the Catalyst says you can't blame fire because it does it's supposed to do. That seems to suggest that even advanced AI still acts following the main purpose it was originally programmed for, even if it becomes aware of itself and can make choices.

The Reapers are just the iteration of what the Reapers themselves were trying to avoid, whether they see that or not. The history between the Quarian and the Geth are the reason why the Reaper cycle was created in the first place. Even if the Quarians didn't know it, machines HAD rebelled before, their fears weren't nonesense. On the other hand, whatever organic race created an AI to maintain status quo (the Catalyst) didn't realise that they were asking that AI to do what they feared synthetics would do: take control.

One more thing to consider however is this: were the rebellions by the other sentient machines caused by the organics again? What calculation would make a machine decide that killing organics is the way of survival, what would those machines gain from being the only ones alive? Would they get to the point where the answer to these questions would bring the machines at war with their own creators if they are not instigated by the creators themselves?

Modifié par Xariann, 10 juillet 2012 - 10:26 .


#362
Ender Ghost

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The "they sided with the Reapers only because they were about to be wiped out" argument doesn't cut it. They are still traitors. Now, would the quarians have become traitors to the galaxy and joined the Reapers if the geth had them on the brink of extinction? I doubt it.


I don't consider the Geth traitors, the Quarians were on the verge of returning to Rannoch after I brokered peace between them in ME2, then when the Reapers invade then they go and attack the Geth, well sure! Thats what my allies should do, instigate a fight with their teammate when the enemy arrives, brilliant!

If you ask me I say the Quarian admirals (except one) were indoctrinated. The geth acted in selfdefence and I would do exactly what they did if it were me.


Geekalogy: So the elves attack the dwarves and are close to wiping them out. In response you would advise the dwarves to join Sauron?


Thats a bad comparison, the thing about the reapers was they were harvesting all ORGANIC life, there for the Geth had no real reason to side with the organics (Which if you ask me is reason enough to save them), but if the organics turned on them then they had common ground with the Reapers.
This can't be said about the Dwarves and Sauron (But then agian I haven't read Lord of the Rings for a while), but the Dwarves didn't really have common ground with Sauron so they couldn't... plus the elves were largely peaceful...

#363
Quackjack

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Geth
Quarians started it, let them own their decision

#364
FlyingSquirrel

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I did have to choose on my first playthrough, and I chose the geth for the simple reason that the quarian military leadership repeatedly incited the conflict. Had the quarians stopped shooting and the geth had turned their guns on them in response, I'd have chosen the quarians.

#365
KingZayd

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moater boat wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

People really don't pay attention do they. Saying the Geth sided with reapers twice. WOw, just wow.

Only the heretics sided with the reapers. That was only 5%-10% of the Geth. The second time, they were pushed to the brink of extinction.


The heretics sided with the Reapers, and the orthodox Geth said "Ok, sure, have fun destroying all sentient life. We are totally OK with that" the second time, THEY STILL SIDED WITH THE REAPERS!!! It doesn't matter if they were losing a war. If you had to choose between you yourself dying, or millions of innocents, which one would you choose?

The Geth are self centered scum that don't care about organics and therefor have no place in the galactic community.


false equivalency. The Geth are not just one person. Yes it was a selfish decision, but it's nowhere near as bad as you paint it out to be. 


Who would have helped the Geth? Clearly organics are self centred scum that don't care about synthetics and therefore have no place in the galactic community.

Also before the Quarians attacked, the Geth were preparing to fight the Reapers themselves.. a war that as far as they knew, they didn't really hold a stake in.

#366
silentassassin264

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KingZayd wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

People really don't pay attention do they. Saying the Geth sided with reapers twice. WOw, just wow.

Only the heretics sided with the reapers. That was only 5%-10% of the Geth. The second time, they were pushed to the brink of extinction.


The heretics sided with the Reapers, and the orthodox Geth said "Ok, sure, have fun destroying all sentient life. We are totally OK with that" the second time, THEY STILL SIDED WITH THE REAPERS!!! It doesn't matter if they were losing a war. If you had to choose between you yourself dying, or millions of innocents, which one would you choose?

The Geth are self centered scum that don't care about organics and therefor have no place in the galactic community.


false equivalency. The Geth are not just one person. Yes it was a selfish decision, but it's nowhere near as bad as you paint it out to be. 


Who would have helped the Geth? Clearly organics are self centred scum that don't care about synthetics and therefore have no place in the galactic community.

Also before the Quarians attacked, the Geth were preparing to fight the Reapers themselves.. a war that as far as they knew, they didn't really hold a stake in.

Legion said the old machines were a threat to them in ME2.  I think the true Geth were smart enough to realize the Reapers would kill them, too.  That is why people bashing the Geth for turning to the Reapers amaze me.  The Geth were trying to stop the Reapers.  They only turned to the Reapers because the literally (not figuratively but saying literally for emphasis, actual literally) had no other option to keep from being exterminated.

#367
KingZayd

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CronoDragoon wrote...

The "they sided with the Reapers only because they were about to be wiped out" argument doesn't cut it. They are still traitors. Now, would the quarians have become traitors to the galaxy and joined the Reapers if the geth had them on the brink of extinction? I doubt it.


If the Reapers had demonstrated intent to wipe out all synthetic life, rather than all organic life? Quarians would do it in an instant.

#368
KingZayd

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CronoDragoon wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The "they sided with the Reapers only because they were about to be wiped out" argument doesn't cut it. They are still traitors. Now, would the quarians have become traitors to the galaxy and joined the Reapers if the geth had them on the brink of extinction? I doubt it.


I don't consider the Geth traitors, the Quarians were on the verge of returning to Rannoch after I brokered peace between them in ME2, then when the Reapers invade then they go and attack the Geth, well sure! Thats what my allies should do, instigate a fight with their teammate when the enemy arrives, brilliant!

If you ask me I say the Quarian admirals (except one) were indoctrinated. The geth acted in selfdefence and I would do exactly what they did if it were me.


Geekalogy: So the elves attack the dwarves and are close to wiping them out. In response you would advise the dwarves to join Sauron?


If the rest of the Middle Earth hated dwarves, and had no interest in helping them, then as a dwarf? Yes. Why would I care about the other peoples of Middle Earth, when my people aren't welcome in it?

Modifié par KingZayd, 11 juillet 2012 - 09:52 .


#369
ABN Tali Fan

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I usually make peace but for the sake of argument. The Geth got a second chance and went back to the reapers. Sorry no third chance.

#370
Samzo77

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I don't feel bad for the Quarians as a people, because they made their bed and have to lay in it. But they are people, not AI computer programs in robotic bodies. No matter how aware they become, Geth are not alive. They are programs that mimic life in a complex way.

I save the Quarians.

#371
Pottumuusi

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Save dem hips.

#372
Errationatus

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I needed the firepower of both, so I saved both. When I choose destroy, the geth buy it. 
"Oh, no, millions of talkie-toasters were suddenly silenced!"  Tragedy.  <_< 

Joker can make do with an inflatable until the economy is back on its feet.  Less fractures with foam and air.

Emulation is not actualization.

If there had been no Reaper invasion, I would have ignored the conflict.  Robots vs the descendants of their pathetically idiotically-inept programmers?  Whatever.

There's no morality involved with turning off a machine, and the quarians either learn from their historical stupidity or they get wiped out. 

*Shrug*  Neither would be my fault, and I'm not really into hyper-allergic whiny-ass chicken-girls who sees me as a creepy daddy substitute.  Pass, pass and pass.

#373
Ender Ghost

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JakeMacDon wrote...

and I'm not really into hyper-allergic whiny-ass chicken-girls who sees me as a creepy daddy substitute.  Pass, pass and pass.



I didn't really agree with what you said about the Geth... but this made me lol.

#374
Mojenator12345

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Samzo77 wrote...

They are programs that mimic life in a complex way.


Meh, so are you.

Shepard wants peace.  The Geth want peace.  All the Quarians have to do is stop shooting.  If they don't, they can own the consequences.

#375
DirtySHISN0

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I let the Quarians bite it usually.

Without my intervention it's their own choice that kills them.
Also i feel that the Geth deserve a chance after i have systematically annihilated them for 3 games.

Recommended watching for those who don't understand why the line between alive and not alive is blurred; Ghost in the Shell.