405 réponses à ce sujet

[136th]

I'll choose destroy or let the Geth die in any playthrough,

Let's see what choice the geth face when they were losing:

1) Fight to the end  and die proudly free and as themselves.
-Honorable but not necesary

2) Ask Shepard for help, Shepard and Tali are both Legion's friend so ask for help instead of going silent and cut Tali off.
-Well Shepard is Shepard, he'll thing of something

3) Let's go seek help form a race of ominicidal space cyborg who plan to kill everything the geth Included !
- it would mean becoming zombie puppets who are going to be used as tool
then to be exterminated in the end anyways when the geth are only longer
useful to the reapers.

The geth choose the reapers
To be stupid enough to be voluntarily brainwashed by people who already
told you that they are going to kill you in the end anyways: That
inexcusably stupid, like Darwin reward stupid. It takes only about 1000
programs to have human level intellect so the collective has still
intelligence to make decision, so they know the absurdity of their
choice and did it anyways.

In short the geth are too stupid the let live.

[bodzaital]

If I recall correctly, Legion said that the heretics choose to side with the Reapers. Thing organics wouldn't do (well except indoctrinated, but the geth can't be indoctrinated). In ME3, the geth joined the Reapers to help them against the "creator threat". Again, a thing organics wouldn't do.

The point is, the geth are easily reprogrammable. Somebody can release a virus, and they turn hostile again. They are just machines. And if they really want it, the can rebuild the geth.

So yeah. Quarians.

[Ender Ghost]

136th wrote...

I'll choose destroy or let the Geth die in any playthrough,

Let's see what choice the geth face when they were losing:

1) Fight to the end  and die proudly free and as themselves.
-Honorable but not necesary

2) Ask Shepard for help, Shepard and Tali are both Legion's friend so ask for help instead of going silent and cut Tali off.
-Well Shepard is Shepard, he'll thing of something

3) Let's go seek help form a race of ominicidal space cyborg who plan to kill everything the geth Included !
- it would mean becoming zombie puppets who are going to be used as tool
then to be exterminated in the end anyways when the geth are only longer
useful to the reapers.

The geth choose the reapers
To be stupid enough to be voluntarily brainwashed by people who already
told you that they are going to kill you in the end anyways: That
inexcusably stupid, like Darwin reward stupid. It takes only about 1000
programs to have human level intellect so the collective has still
intelligence to make decision, so they know the absurdity of their
choice and did it anyways.

In short the geth are too stupid the let live.

1. Not neccesary? Sure, I'm not going to fight for my life when a race of angry pilgrams comes rushing into my home shooting at me.

2. If I recall correctly the Migrant fleet cut contact with the outside so thats a no for Tali and Shepard was on trial for crimes he commited in ME2 so thats a no for Shepard. So who are they going to run to? The council? Suuure.....

3. The Reapers wanted to kill organics, not synthetics.

So tell me, with this in mind, who are the geth going to contact? If you ask me the Quarians are no better then Cerberus, in ME2 I brokered peace between them  and when they attacked the geth they were undermining the work I'd done to rally the races of the galaxy, when cerberus show up on Mars they get labeled as sabotouers, so when the Quarians invade the geth, destroy their dyson sphere, do untold damage to their fleets and even destroy one of their dreadnoughts and I'm suppose to have sympathy for them?

[136th]

People should get their facts straits the Reaper exterminate both Organic AND Synthetics.

Those space cyborgs will kill the geth in the end regardless
The fact that the geth were stupid enough to ally with them is beyond me.

[Ender Ghost]

136th wrote...

People should get their facts straits the Reaper exterminate both Organic AND Synthetics.

Those space cyborgs will kill the geth in the end regardless
The fact that the geth were stupid enough to ally with them is beyond me.

Give me a quote or codex entry that says the Reapers were going to kill the Geth, because if I recall correctly the geth were going to be the citedal 'Keepers' for the next cycle, and if I were a Geth, I'd rather fight for the reapers then be killed by my own allies.

[mauro2222]

The quantity of anthropocentric arguments is incredible.

People don't even use in a correct way the word machine.

I feel bad for AIs, they have to tolerate the stupidity of organics.

[mauro2222]

CronoDragoon wrote...

The "they sided with the Reapers only because they were about to be wiped out" argument doesn't cut it. They are still traitors. Now, would the quarians have become traitors to the galaxy and joined the Reapers if the geth had them on the brink of extinction? I doubt it.

They were less intelligent thanks to the Quarians, top priority was survival, only way to achieve it was to ally with the Reapers.

The Geth allow a cease fire if you choose them, the Quarians don't.
The Quarians kill themselves, they're more stupid than the Geth in the Morning war (who were babies under attack) and after the destruction of the Dyson Sphere (mentally handicaped).

Modifié par mauro2222, 22 juillet 2012 - 12:12 .

[Anvos]

Why can't I stop getting involved in reading these? So very little changes.

Let me put it simply save Quarians.  I actually reloaded first play through to get this when a par/ren option accidentally led to peace when I thought it meant something else.

1. Quarians are 100% undoubtably alive.  Geth you have to make a debate of high concept philisopical and religous concepts that can't be proven one way or another.

2. The geth have chosen to side with the reapers not once, but twice!!!  Their only response afterwards is handwaving that their not responsible, relying on information about themselves that can't be solidly verified by anyone else.  Also the second time they joined knowing well that at its best the Reaper plans for them were going to highly modify their network and use them as a replacement for the collectors or keepers.

3. Quarians have external evidence for their claims.  Geth have datafiles from sections of their consensus that have been highly corupted by the reaper virus.  Yet again they then try and handwave away the inconsistances in their evidence by claiming its the viewer's fualt they aren't seeing the "memory" correctly despite the fact that the memories of a robot should function similar to a video file and not change based on who is viewing it.

4. Taking in the reaper upgrades to stop their network from collapsing means they are no longer the geth we "know".  Plus the argument can be made that in doing so they become the enemy and are a potential liability of reaper sleeper code being planted in them.

5. The Geth would have lost the war if not for Reaper intervention. 

6. If you blame the quarians for bad timming in their invasion then you might as well pick refuse and let everyone die.  Nobody was ready for the reaper invasion.  The quarian problem however would have been resolved if they only had an extra month or two.

7. Their empire was the only place they knew of where they could put their people where they wouldn't starve to death or be killed by the elements if the fleet couldn't return.

8. The geth aren't as peaceful as they claim.  They killed billions when they first awoke, they killed the citadel envoy to them, they joined the reapers to attack the citadel, and there were those various times shepard had to deal with hostile geth.  Oh and in hundreds of years they never attempted to barter peace with the councial or their creators, they only start talking we are peaceful robots who have wanted peace when their last ditch effort of joining the reapers was on the verge of failure.

9. The quarians were there first and the geth have essentially been squatting there since the morning war without paying rent.

10. Geth don't need garden worlds. Quarians however need garden worlds or close to garden worlds and further more need dextro based ones. If they really just wanted to be left alone they could go to what for others would be barely tolerable conditions and mine away astroids to build more of them to their roboty core's content. 

11. The only reason the geth are around today is that the councial sat on its hands to avoid the quarians becoming a big enough empire to make a play for a councial seat.  The story has also shown consistantly how humanity gets stuck fixing the councial's mistakes.

12. If you chose destroy or refuse, siding with the geth is pointless or you've actually harmed the cause of making it easier for the next cycle.

13. The quarian race doesn't die if you destroy the fleet(it only becomes critically endangered), and unless you pick refuse they'll likely be back its just a matter of time.

14. The geth made it an all or nothing situation by blocking off the relay.

15. The geth are the side that won't back down for the sake of peace.  The quarian's can be convinced to take the first step to peace to back down.  The geth however chose not to make that first step or at least reposition to funnel the quarian fleet back to the the relay.

16. The quarians are better suited to our needs.  Their fleet is already designed for efficent hauling of goods and people and their army is filled with specialists.  The geth army however is mostly basic production line war plaforms that get less effective the less of them there are in an area, and we can't defeat the reaper ground forces by throwing hordes of crap at them.  The glass cannon fleet argument is pointless as every ship bar maybe the strongest handful of dreadnaughts is a glass cannon against soveriegn class reapers.

17. Without the quarian invasion it is highly likely the reapers would have still taken over the consensus.  Just this time nobody would know in time and when we rush off for Priority: Earth soon there after the victory fleet would be flanked by the geth fleet and thus the whole game ends in critical mission failure.

18.  Even if the geth can't 100% be restored humanity and the quarian's could always combine our VI research to create a better series 2 geth, where this time there is a kill switch in its core programing if it starts trying to kill organics.

19. Legion tries to kill shepard if he disagrees with his radical solution of lets make all geth part reaper.

Modifié par Anvos, 22 juillet 2012 - 03:59 .

[mauro2222]

Such a little understanding of the conflict ^

[NS Wizdum]

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

[Anvos]

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

[krasnoarmeets]

Why not both? Both the Geth and Quarian ships. Quarian ships, many of which are 300 years old. Not destroying the Geth dreadnought would be useful.

[Ryzaki]

Anvos wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

Guess my Shep must've imagined them trying to blow up the dreadnaught he was aboard then.

Anyways always have and always will side with the Geth. The Quarians warmongering lead to their extermination. Not my Shep's problem.

[Anvos]

Ryzaki wrote...

Anvos wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

Guess my Shep must've imagined them trying to blow up the dreadnaught he was aboard then.

Anyways always have and always will side with the Geth. The Quarians warmongering lead to their extermination. Not my Shep's problem.

To be fair the ship you were on was the lead ship boosting the performance of the rest of the geth fleet and they weren't targeting shepard, but their enemy.  At best you can argue reckless collateral damage, but I don't think I've seen a quarian ever attack shepard.

Also I find it odd you call the quarians the warmongers, when its been geth the councial and alliance have been fighting up until the reaper threat came along.  The quarians started but 1 war in 300 years and that is a continuation of an old war that was never really resolved.

Modifié par Anvos, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:41 .

[Bolt-Action]

In short, the Geth had become sentient, removing the easy, dismissal, excuse of "they're just machines".
The question is more complex and goes beyond, who hit, who first. And finger pointing fault.
Yes, the Geth are data, at their roots, therefore they can be corrupted, again. Are they a risk? And is it worth it? Yes and yes, but to condemn any race based on its value in relation to risk-how many squaddies would you NOT have recruited in ME2? Jack, Grunt, Kasumi, EDi...
Your answer is purely personal.
For me, both races have merit and value, as they should. If you view it from a military stand point, you have your orders, recruit the Quarians.

[krasnoarmeets]

Anvos wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

Umm, you do remember the mission on the Geth dreadnought, right? When the entire Quarian heavy fleet started pounding it while Shep and squaddies were still on board? I believe that counts as shooting at him. It does in my book. You can give Han Gerrel the smackdown for it when you get back on the Normandy, which one of my Sheps did.

[Ryzaki]

Anvos wrote...
To be fair the ship you were on was the lead ship boosting the performance of the rest of the geth fleet and they weren't targeting shepard, but their enemy.  At best you can argue reckless collateral damage, but I don't think I've seen a quarian ever attack shepard.

Also I find it odd you call the quarians the warmongers, when its been geth the councial and alliance have been fighting up until the reaper threat came along.  The quarians started but 1 war in 300 years and that is a continuation of an old war that was never really resolved.

Shepard was aboard the ship. That's attacking him. Trying to say it's not is ridculous. For all they know Shep was going to destroy the ship from the inside and taking down the barriers were part of that. They attacked that ship not caring if Shep died aboard it as long as the dreadnaught was destroyed (well Gerrel did. Punching him in the stomach was letting him off easy.) nevermind the shortsighted stupidity of that since if Shep did die they would've still gotten their asses handed to them by the Reapers and the Geth. Warmongering morons.

They are. They constantly pick fights with the Geth the second they think they can win regardless of warnings others have given them. They pass up a perfect opportunity to get their civilians out safely (which is exactly what Shep told them to do and they agreed with) just to keep attacking. Their extinction was inevitable in my game. There's only so many times you can kick a sleeping lion in the face before it kills you. They kicked one time too many.

And honestly my Sheps were sick of Quarians and Geth. He was not holding the Quarians hands anymore. He told them not to go to war and they did it anyway. He was done. He was not destroying the Geth to appease them when the fight was unnecessary to begin with.

But yeah I've done this debate already. Quarians dead in my game, Geth dead because of destroy, empty Rannoch that humans can now use as a convient vacation spot. Yay.

Your game might be different *shrugs*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:57 .

[Anvos]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Anvos wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

Umm, you do remember the mission on the Geth dreadnought, right? When the entire Quarian heavy fleet started pounding it while Shep and squaddies were still on board? I believe that counts as shooting at him. It does in my book. You can give Han Gerrel the smackdown for it when you get back on the Normandy, which one of my Sheps did.

As I already pointed out he was firing on the ship because it wa the geth flagship not because shepard was on the ship.  Besides I view it as if you enter an enemy's capital ship you accept responsability for any and all injury caused by the ship being damaged or destroyed in battle.  Also there is the fact that as I pointed out before the geth made it so the quarians had not option, but to continue the attack (especially considering there was 100% no chance of peace until the reaper was destroyed).

Modifié par Anvos, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:52 .

[krasnoarmeets]

Anvos wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Anvos wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

Umm, you do remember the mission on the Geth dreadnought, right? When the entire Quarian heavy fleet started pounding it while Shep and squaddies were still on board? I believe that counts as shooting at him. It does in my book. You can give Han Gerrel the smackdown for it when you get back on the Normandy, which one of my Sheps did.

As I already pointed out he was firing on the ship because it wa the geth flagship not because shepard was on the ship.  Besides I view it as if you enter an enemy's capital ship you accept responsability for any and all injury caused by the ship being damaged or destroyed in battle.  Also there is the fact that as I pointed out before the geth made it so the quarians had not option, but to continue the attack (especially considering there was 100% no chance of peace until the reaper was destroyed).

Yes, because the Geth forced the Quarians to start attacking them in their home system. How was there no option? The Quarians started the original fight and they started this fight too.
Legion took the barriers and weapons etc offline as a show of faith. To thank him for that Gerrel started pounding the dreadnought while everyone involved was still on it.

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:58 .

[Anvos]

Ryzaki wrote...

Shepard was aboard the ship. That's attacking him. Trying to say it's not is ridculous. For all they know Shep was going to destroy the ship from the inside and taking down the barriers were part of that. They attacked that ship not caring if Shep died aboard it as long as the dreadnaught was destroyed (well Gerrel did. Punching him in the stomach was letting him off easy.) nevermind the shortsighted stupidity of that since if Shep did die they would've still gotten their asses handed to them by the Reapers and the Geth. Warmongering morons.

They are. They constantly pick fights with the Geth the second they think they can win regardless of warnings others have given them. They pass up a perfect opportunity to get their civilians out safely just to keep attacking. Their extinction was inevitable in my game. There's only so many times you can kick a sleeping lion in the face before it kills you. They kicked one time too many.

And honestly my Sheps were sick of Quarians and Geth. He was not holding the Quarians hands anymore. He told them not to go to war and they did it anyway. He was done. He was not destroying the Geth to appease them when the fight was unnecessary to begin with.

It not the quarian's fault the geth pressed the save us reapers we will help destroy all organics if you bail us out of a war we've lost button.  Simple answer is before betraying the galaxy again geth were about to lose the war so its not the quarian's fault they are in trouble when shepard arrives, plus its kinda shepard's job to stop the reapers and their pawns.

Modifié par Anvos, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:56 .

[NS Wizdum]

Anvos wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Anvos wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

Umm, you do remember the mission on the Geth dreadnought, right? When the entire Quarian heavy fleet started pounding it while Shep and squaddies were still on board? I believe that counts as shooting at him. It does in my book. You can give Han Gerrel the smackdown for it when you get back on the Normandy, which one of my Sheps did.

As I already pointed out he was firing on the ship because it wa the geth flagship not because shepard was on the ship.  Besides I view it as if you enter an enemy's capital ship you accept responsability for any and all injury caused by the ship being damaged or destroyed in battle.  Also there is the fact that as I pointed out before the geth made it so the quarians had not option, but to continue the attack (especially considering there was 100% no chance of peace until the reaper was destroyed).

I seem to remember going on that ship to buy them time to LEAVE. Also, when Shepard was standing on the ship, he/she became part of the system that ship belonged to. Meaning that any forces interacting with the ship were also interacting with shepards physical form. Thus, THEY WERE SHOOTING AT ME.


They forgot Maxim #1
1. Pillage, then burn. 

Modifié par NS Wizdum, 22 juillet 2012 - 04:57 .

[Ryzaki]

Anvos wrote...
It not the quarian's fault the geth pressed the save us reapers we will help destroy all organics if you bail us out of a war we've lost button.  Simple answer is before betraying the galaxy again geth were about to lose the war so its not the quarian's fault they are in trouble when shepard arrives, plus its kinda shepard's job to stop the reapers and their pawns.

The Geth wouldn't have gone to the Reapers had those warmongering idiots not attacked them! Hell yes it's their fault!

And on that note I'm done. My edit and yeah Quarians have to be one of the most irritating fictional races I've dealt with.

[SSPBOURNE]

I'd save the quarians because Xala'Raan is my LI.

[Anvos]

NS Wizdum wrote...

Anvos wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Anvos wrote...

NS Wizdum wrote...

Theres more Geth, so killing the Quarians would mean less death. On the flip side, the Quarians have more ships, and you need those ships to fight the Reapers. Without those ships, more people are going to die.

Its a crapshoot. If I had to choose, i'd probably choose the Quarians, because they have shot at me less.

Actually I'm not sure if a quarian has ever actually shot at shepard.

Umm, you do remember the mission on the Geth dreadnought, right? When the entire Quarian heavy fleet started pounding it while Shep and squaddies were still on board? I believe that counts as shooting at him. It does in my book. You can give Han Gerrel the smackdown for it when you get back on the Normandy, which one of my Sheps did.

As I already pointed out he was firing on the ship because it wa the geth flagship not because shepard was on the ship.  Besides I view it as if you enter an enemy's capital ship you accept responsability for any and all injury caused by the ship being damaged or destroyed in battle.  Also there is the fact that as I pointed out before the geth made it so the quarians had not option, but to continue the attack (especially considering there was 100% no chance of peace until the reaper was destroyed).

I seem to remember going on that ship to buy them time to LEAVE. Also, when Shepard was standing on the ship, he/she became part of the system that ship belonged to. Meaning that any forces interacting with the ship were also interacting with shepards physical form. Thus, THEY WERE SHOOTING AT ME.


They forgot Maxim #1
1. Pillage, then burn. 

I never said I agreed with him not waiting for shepard to be closer to be off, but I have to admit that the ship had to go, as from the point the geth accepted reaper aid to atleast the destruction of the reaper, retreat was not an option if any other was available as at that point leaving means the reapers gain a massive asset.