405 réponses à ce sujet

[Baa Baa]

DocGriffin wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

DEATHSCOPE wrote...

Quarians started the Morning War. They are the ones responsible. I hate Quarians. Gypsies, the lot of them!

You hate gypsies? You need to watch Snatch

I hate gypsies, too. What's Snatch about?

Stay on target, stay on target!

Wow, didn't even realize how off topic I got there

[Jamie9]

Well, the Geth and Quarians are equally innocent. The Geth were forced into the Reapers' arms, and then "indoctrinated".

The Quarians were forced into conflict by their Admirals.

So... I would save the Geth. Purely because there are many, many more Geth. I can't emotionally judge two species against each other. Neither one is "more deserving" of life. They both deserve to live.

[Phlander]

Jamie9 wrote...

Well, the Geth and Quarians are equally innocent. The Geth were forced into the Reapers' arms, and then "indoctrinated".

The Quarians were forced into conflict by their Admirals.

So... I would save the Geth. Purely because there are many, many more Geth. I can't emotionally judge two species against each other. Neither one is "more deserving" of life. They both deserve to live.

It does take around 1000 programs to acheive sentience though, I wouldnt count a single, standalone program as being 'alive.'

[silentassassin264]

Phlander wrote...

Two things to note:

The Geth chose not to communicate with anyone about the situation, even though they were open to the idea of The Creators returning home.

They sided with the Reapers to solve their own problems... twice...

Dont get me wrong, I like the Geth, they are as alive as the Quarians to me, but i feel like everyone just hates the Quarians because its the progressive hipster thing to do...

Not all the Geth sided with the Reapers the first time.  Not even most of them did.  And could you blame them the second time?  They are about to be wiped out with no allies to come to their aid.  

[o Ventus]

Drudez wrote...

Geth are just machines, they can be rebuilt. Organics can't be.

Shepard wants a word with you.

[DocGriffin]

o Ventus wrote...

Drudez wrote...

Geth are just machines, they can be rebuilt. Organics can't be.

Shepard wants a word with you.

True, but to do so for an entire species would be unimaginably costly.

[o Ventus]

Phlander wrote...

They sided with the Reapers to solve their own problems... twice...

No. This is false.

The first time, it was the heretics who sided with the Reapers. The vast, VAST majority of geth remained isolated behind the veil.

The 2nd time, the quarians launched a surprise attack and destroyed the geth's dyson construct, possibly the highest concentration of programs lost in a single attack. The quarians were devastating the geth, and the geth didn't want to go extinct.

[o Ventus]

DocGriffin wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Drudez wrote...

Geth are just machines, they can be rebuilt. Organics can't be.

Shepard wants a word with you.

True, but to do so for an entire species would be unimaginably costly.

If Keiji is any example, just pick Synthesis.

[Jamie9]

o Ventus wrote...

If Keiji is any example, just pick Synthesis.

I stick with my inital assumption upon viewing that slide.

Organics now have the ability to upload or otherwise move their consciousness, like a synthetic. Therefore, I assumed Kasumi uploaded herself into the Greybox, where she could live with Keiji.

[Phlander]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Phlander wrote...

Two things to note:

The Geth chose not to communicate with anyone about the situation, even though they were open to the idea of The Creators returning home.

They sided with the Reapers to solve their own problems... twice...

Dont get me wrong, I like the Geth, they are as alive as the Quarians to me, but i feel like everyone just hates the Quarians because its the progressive hipster thing to do...

Not all the Geth sided with the Reapers the first time.  Not even most of them did.  And could you blame them the second time?  They are about to be wiped out with no allies to come to their aid.  

But all im saying is the Geth have done it.  Whereas an organic would be appauled by the thought of siding the Reapers, it was the first answer for the Geth against the Quarians.  And yes I can blame them, they were not in danger of extinction yet, pulling the Reaper card was very dishonorable.

Before you say blaming the heretics is like blaming the decisions made by few quarians, its not the same, as organic minds are radically different from eachother, and one geth program cannot force other programs to do what it wants.

[o Ventus]

Jamie9 wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

If Keiji is any example, just pick Synthesis.

I stick with my inital assumption upon viewing that slide.

Organics now have the ability to upload or otherwise move their consciousness, like a synthetic. Therefore, I assumed Kasumi uploaded herself into the Greybox, where she could live with Keiji.

A greybox is a tool to help Alzheimer's patients, you can't transfer consciousness into one.

[Jamie9]

o Ventus wrote...

A greybox is a tool to help Alzheimer's patients, you can't transfer consciousness into one.

It... is? I completely missed that in the lore, I guess.

I thought a Greybox contained memories. Therefore, Kasumi would just be taking her role in the memories, reliving her life with Keiji.

[silentassassin264]

Phlander wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Phlander wrote...

Two things to note:

The Geth chose not to communicate with anyone about the situation, even though they were open to the idea of The Creators returning home.

They sided with the Reapers to solve their own problems... twice...

Dont get me wrong, I like the Geth, they are as alive as the Quarians to me, but i feel like everyone just hates the Quarians because its the progressive hipster thing to do...

Not all the Geth sided with the Reapers the first time.  Not even most of them did.  And could you blame them the second time?  They are about to be wiped out with no allies to come to their aid.  

But all im saying is the Geth have done it.  Whereas an organic would be appauled by the thought of siding the Reapers, it was the first answer for the Geth against the Quarians.  And yes I can blame them, they were not in danger of extinction yet, pulling the Reaper card was very dishonorable.

Before you say blaming the heretics is like blaming the decisions made by few quarians, its not the same, as organic minds are radically different from eachother, and one geth program cannot force other programs to do what it wants.

Saren, Benezia, Udina, TIM, Kai Leng, etc. would like to have a word with you.

[o Ventus]

Phlander wrote...

And yes I can blame them, they were not in danger of extinction yet, pulling the Reaper card was very dishonorable.

The quarians destroyed the geth's dyson construct. They were in very clear danger of extinction.

Before you say blaming the heretics is like blaming the decisions made by few quarians, its not the same, as organic minds are radically different from eachother, and one geth program cannot force other programs to do what it wants.

Yeah, and one organic can't force others to do what it wants either. The difference is superficial at best.

[Phlander]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Saren, Benezia, Udina, TIM, Kai Leng, etc. would like to have a word with you.

Obviously indoctrination is outside the field of play.

[Jamie9]

Phlander wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Saren, Benezia, Udina, TIM, Kai Leng, etc. would like to have a word with you.

Obviously indoctrination is outside the field of play.

We don't know if all Geth agreed. Once Legion was hooked up to the Reaper control device, all Geth had to obey. It basically was indoctrination.

[silentassassin264]

Phlander wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Saren, Benezia, Udina, TIM, Kai Leng, etc. would like to have a word with you.

Obviously indoctrination is outside the field of play.

Saren wasn't indoctrinated when he sided with the Reapers.   Saren was afraid and offered to surrender to save himself.  The others might have been indoctrinated first (well except Kai Leng, he specifically said he wanted to be on the winning side) but clearly organics have willingly chosen the Reapers before sans indoctrination.

[Phlander]

o Ventus wrote...

The quarians destroyed the geth's dyson construct. They were in very clear danger of extinction.

Legion doesnt say anything to suggest that more than a small fraction of programs were lost, honestly it wasnt smart for them to upload programs into the unfinished structure when they dont have enough back up storage anyway.  And theres nothing stopping them from taking the route of the quarians 300 years ago.

Yeah, and one organic can't force others to do what it wants either. The difference is superficial at best.

Idealistically, your right, but in the real world, people are forced to do things all the time, the only reason no sympathetic quarians exist is because that mind set either died or comformed, due to the martial law, AKA the choice of few.

Id like to reiterate, im not saying the Quarians arent guilty, im just trying to make the argument that the Geth arent exactly innocent victims either.

Modifié par Phlander, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:41 .

[Phlander]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Phlander wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Saren, Benezia, Udina, TIM, Kai Leng, etc. would like to have a word with you.

Obviously indoctrination is outside the field of play.

Saren wasn't indoctrinated when he sided with the Reapers.   Saren was afraid and offered to surrender to save himself.  The others might have been indoctrinated first (well except Kai Leng, he specifically said he wanted to be on the winning side) but clearly organics have willingly chosen the Reapers before sans indoctrination.

My interperetation was that saren thought he was doing that, and in reality it was just the thoughts fed to him by sovereign.  If we take the evolution comics as canon (and Bioware usualy does take extra media content as canon) then Saren became atleast partially indoctrinated during the First Contact War.

[silentassassin264]

Well regardless there is always what Jamie9 said.

[Jamie9]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Well regardless there is always what Jamie9 said.

[Phlander]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1. Geth have a larger fleet.

No they don't. I've seen people say this time and time again, but it's not true. Maximum quarian War Assets are higher than maximum geth War Assets.

Unless anyone with more than 825 geth War Assets would like to prove me otherwise?

Yeah but the alliance is higher than both of them, so EMS doesnt make a ton of sense. Im just going to write it off and say Reaper hacking made them less effective.

[silentassassin264]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Conniving_Eagle wrote...

1. Geth have a larger fleet.

No they don't. I've seen people say this time and time again, but it's not true. Maximum quarian War Assets are higher than maximum geth War Assets.

Unless anyone with more than 825 geth War Assets would like to prove me otherwise?

No they don't.  It is the exact same base fleet size and if you destroy the heretics in ME2 the Geth fleet will decrease and if you brainwash them the Quarian numbers will decrease by the same factor.  

Or you know...maybe not...

Modifié par silentassassin264, 09 juillet 2012 - 01:49 .