405 réponses à ce sujet

[Phlander]

Jamie9 wrote...

Everybody please stop with the insults.

No need to call anybody an idiot. Thanks.

[The Twilight God]

ForThessia wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

if my toaster started talking to me i would be freaked out and i would unplug it to figure out what i should do next, if it attacked me i would fight back 

If it tried to kill me, I would fight back. That's called self defence.

If it tried to talk to me, I wouldn't unplug it, or kill it. That's called murder.

There is a distinct difference.

that is the diference between organics and synthetics, you cant "turn us off " because we dont "turn back on"
a synthetic can be turned on and off at will. and dont get me started with the "murder" of a machine

Both are just a bunch of proton, neutron and electrons. Organics are just as much machines as the geth.

But since I can't identify with the geth I don't feel strongly enough to care about them as much as I would quarians.

[DocGriffin]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Morally, you have to save both, if you don't you've failed. Neither are to be taken as Alpha.

Not really.  I feel no compulsion to save the Quarians.  They were wrong.  Yeah it helps if you can save both but the difference is that the Geth were victims and the Quarians were aggressors with no legitimate reason to be aggressors. 

Your completely idiotic, judging a whole species based on it's leaders when most of them don't want to go to war.

Valid. I said evaluate the species as a whole, try not to take that as 'look at them generally.' Remember, Gerrel is a Quarian but so is Korlis.

Only close minded idiotic people  make a judgment of an entire species just because of 2 leaders, it really baffles me.

I wasn't speaking literally about those two, I was using them as synecdoches to represent the two main ideologies represented in the Quarian masses. 

[silentassassin264]

ForThessia wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Phlander wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

And if I were exiled from my apartment because my appliances took it from me BECAUSE I TRIED TO KILL THEM, I would leave it with them because it was my fault for trying to kill them.  Yeah my life would be crappy with nowhere to live for a bit, but I brought it on myself.  I would not go get an EMP grenade and try to kill them because I was an ass.

But what essentially happened is that your roommate did it, then held you at gunpoint in order to make you help him defend against the electronics, then held you at gunpoint to make you retake the apartment, and then the police came, decided you were at fault, and took your emp grenades and let the electronics have at you, and police men are wrong (i know some of that doesnt make sense, but the parallels dont mesh well here)

I don't have a roommate but assuming I did and she tried to make me fight them at gunpoint, I would kill her.  She would be the more eminent threat to my existence than the appliances.  I would pretend to agree and as soon as she move the gun off of me I would show her why it is a bad idea to threaten a blackbelt.

so you would kill a human being over a barely sentient machine............ok<_<

A human that is threatening to kill me versus a sentient machine that doesn't care what I do?  Oh heck yes.  

 
so you are chosing to murder someone over turning off an object?

Someone WHO IS TRYING TO KILL ME, yes actually.  I have no grudge against the sentient toaster and I am not going to kill it for no reason.  As I said, the eminent threat against my life is the gun at my back by a psychotic roommate, not a sentient toaster that is not bothering me.  If she wants to fight the toaster, she can do it herself.  If she has to drag me in it threatening lethal force, then we have a problem.

[ForThessia]

The Twilight God wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

if my toaster started talking to me i would be freaked out and i would unplug it to figure out what i should do next, if it attacked me i would fight back 

If it tried to kill me, I would fight back. That's called self defence.

If it tried to talk to me, I wouldn't unplug it, or kill it. That's called murder.

There is a distinct difference.

that is the diference between organics and synthetics, you cant "turn us off " because we dont "turn back on"
a synthetic can be turned on and off at will. and dont get me started with the "murder" of a machine

Both are just a bunch of proton, neutron and electrons. Organics are just as much machines as the geth.

But since I can't identify with the geth I don't feel strongly enough to care about them as much as I would quarians.

ummmmmm okey?

[RadicalDisconnect]

inb4godwinthreshold

[DocGriffin]

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

inb4godwinthreshold

If we were talking about Synthesis that would've been page one. Synthesis is damned by Godwin

[ForThessia]

silentassassin264 wrote...




Someone WHO IS TRYING TO KILL ME, yes actually.  I have no grudge against the sentient toaster and I am not going to kill it for no reason.  As I said, the eminent threat against my life is the gun at my back by a psychotic roommate, not a sentient toaster that is not bothering me.  If she wants to fight the toaster, she can do it herself.  If she has to drag me in it threatening lethal force, then we have a problem.

well............. we diddnt mention that she was psycotic 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

DocGriffin wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Morally, you have to save both, if you don't you've failed. Neither are to be taken as Alpha.

Not really.  I feel no compulsion to save the Quarians.  They were wrong.  Yeah it helps if you can save both but the difference is that the Geth were victims and the Quarians were aggressors with no legitimate reason to be aggressors. 

Your completely idiotic, judging a whole species based on it's leaders when most of them don't want to go to war.

Valid. I said evaluate the species as a whole, try not to take that as 'look at them generally.' Remember, Gerrel is a Quarian but so is Korlis.

Only close minded idiotic people  make a judgment of an entire species just because of 2 leaders, it really baffles me.

I wasn't speaking literally about those two, I was using them as synecdoches to represent the two main ideologies represented in the Quarian masses. 

I'm agreeing with you.

[Jamie9]

ForThessia wrote...
ummmmmm okey?

I agree. We have our programming; in our genetics. Our thoughts and our "free will" is governed by our experiences and by our genetics.

There ARE differences between organics and synthetics, but the amount of "alive-ness" isn't one of them.

Synthetics can alter their own code at will. Organics cannot.

Synthetics can upload and move their consciousnesses around. Organics cannot.

[Jamie9]

DocGriffin wrote...

If we were talking about Synthesis that would've been page one. Synthesis is damned by Godwin

You simply can't apply Godwin to Synthesis because Synthesis is impossible in reality.

I'm sick of people using Godwin to dismiss it. Of course it discounts it. Godwin (and his theories) are real. Synthesis is not.

Modifié par Jamie9, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:06 .

[silentassassin264]

ForThessia wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...




Someone WHO IS TRYING TO KILL ME, yes actually.  I have no grudge against the sentient toaster and I am not going to kill it for no reason.  As I said, the eminent threat against my life is the gun at my back by a psychotic roommate, not a sentient toaster that is not bothering me.  If she wants to fight the toaster, she can do it herself.  If she has to drag me in it threatening lethal force, then we have a problem.

well............. we diddnt mention that she was psycotic 

Well if she is forcing me at gun point I kind of assumed that. Normal people don't to persuade people at gun point.

[KiwiQuiche]

Geth.


Quarians are just a bunch of morons and I've had enough with their stupidity.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Morally, you have to save both, if you don't you've failed. Neither are to be taken as Alpha.

Not really.  I feel no compulsion to save the Quarians.  They were wrong.  Yeah it helps if you can save both but the difference is that the Geth were victims and the Quarians were aggressors with no legitimate reason to be aggressors. 

Your completely idiotic, judging a whole species based on it's leaders when most of them don't want to go to war.

silentassassin264 wrote...
Yeah I can.  If they had objected they should have put their foot down and abandoned the fleet.  Koris and the Civilian fleet shouldn't have gone along with the other insane Admirals.  I can blame them because in the end they had a choice and instead chose war.  

 
You are completely idiotic because in addition to proving to be completely devoid of logical processes, you also cannot read.

Yeah and if they would have done that, 3/4 of the Quarians were going to die either way, you obviously can't grasp simple common sense.

I'm waiting.

[ForThessia]

Jamie9 wrote...

ForThessia wrote...
ummmmmm okey?

I agree. We have our programming; in our genetics. Our thoughts and our "free will" is governed by our experiences and by our genetics.

There ARE differences between organics and synthetics, but the amount of "alive-ness" isn't one of them.

Synthetics can alter their own code at will. Organics cannot.

Synthetics can upload and move their consciousnesses around. Organics cannot.

i can never see the geth as being alive through natural progression due to the hive mind. however i can see edi eventually becoming alive, as she has a distinct personality, she learns, and she has free thoughts that dont require consensus 

[Khajiit Jzargo]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Geth.


Quarians are just a bunch of morons and I've had enough with their stupidity.

Yeah let's judge a whole species based on two leaders, and their the idiots?

[Phlander]

ForThessia wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...




Someone WHO IS TRYING TO KILL ME, yes actually.  I have no grudge against the sentient toaster and I am not going to kill it for no reason.  As I said, the eminent threat against my life is the gun at my back by a psychotic roommate, not a sentient toaster that is not bothering me.  If she wants to fight the toaster, she can do it herself.  If she has to drag me in it threatening lethal force, then we have a problem.

well............. we diddnt mention that she was psycotic 

And as i already explained, my example of your psycotic roommate doesnt mesh well with what actually happened in the game, shes not holding a gun to your head, shes forcing you to do it with... TIM's control power or something...

[Jamie9]

ForThessia wrote...
i can never see the geth as being alive through natural progression due to the hive mind. however i can see edi eventually becoming alive, as she has a distinct personality, she learns, and she has free thoughts that dont require consensus 

Consensus is just a form of democracy.

After achieving full sentience in ME3, each Geth is an independant thinker, just like you or I.

[KiwiQuiche]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Geth.


Quarians are just a bunch of morons and I've had enough with their stupidity.

Yeah let's judge a whole species based on two leaders, and their the idiots?

Yes, that I shall and have no regrets. The majority of the quarians are morons; their attitudes during the Morning War and their retarded attack on the geth while the Reapers were invading kinda cinched it. They can die for all I care, and I'll keep my army of robots. Besides, quarians suck in combat anyway, so they are no help in a full-out war apart from tinkering with crap the geth have already made.

[ForThessia]

Phlander wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...




Someone WHO IS TRYING TO KILL ME, yes actually.  I have no grudge against the sentient toaster and I am not going to kill it for no reason.  As I said, the eminent threat against my life is the gun at my back by a psychotic roommate, not a sentient toaster that is not bothering me.  If she wants to fight the toaster, she can do it herself.  If she has to drag me in it threatening lethal force, then we have a problem.

well............. we diddnt mention that she was psycotic 

And as i already explained, my example of your psycotic roommate doesnt mesh well with what actually happened in the game, shes not holding a gun to your head, shes forcing you to do it with... TIM's control power or something...

lol i was like well machine or no machine if some crazy person is pointing a gun at me threatening to kill me i would kill them if i got a chance 

[DocGriffin]

Jamie9 wrote...

DocGriffin wrote...

If we were talking about Synthesis that would've been page one. Synthesis is damned by Godwin

You simply can't apply Godwin to Synthesis because Synthesis is impossible in reality.

I'm sick of people using Godwin to dismiss it. Of course it discounts it. Godwin (and his theories) are real. Synthesis is not.

Am I dismissing Synthesis? No. Was I analogizing Synthesis and x? No. I was pointing out that it's a noticeable trend in Synthesis arguments. I'm just as annoyed as you, I'm a Synthesis supporter, but getting upset about it isn't constructive.

[silentassassin264]

I don't care if 3/4 of the Quarians died. If they chose to slaughter the Geth instead of be rational then they can live with the consequences which of course are death, death, and more death and they will deserve it. I can't find sympathy for people who started a war with the intent of wiping out an entire species and then it going south on them.

[Nezedone]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Geth.


Quarians are just a bunch of morons and I've had enough with their stupidity.

Yeah let's judge a whole species based on two leaders, and their the idiots?

^^
Agree with this

To all the poeple saying "hurr durr Quarians started it"

No. Close-minded individuals started it. As evidenced by the Geth Fighter Squadron Base mission, there -were- Geth sympathizers amongst the Quarians. Not only that, but by the time of the invasion of Rannoch, 1-2 of the admirals don't even support it. (Assuming Tali becomes an Admiral, 2/5 of the Board is for war, 2/5 is against, and the last Admiral is just piggy-backing on the war-side because of no other viable alternatives.)

You have no idea how badly I want to Godwin this thread >.>

Modifié par Nezedone, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:09 .

[ForThessia]

Jamie9 wrote...

ForThessia wrote...
i can never see the geth as being alive through natural progression due to the hive mind. however i can see edi eventually becoming alive, as she has a distinct personality, she learns, and she has free thoughts that dont require consensus 

Consensus is just a form of democracy.

After achieving full sentience in ME3, each Geth is an independant thinker, just like you or I.

but that sentience was achieved through reaper code not natural progression, i cant see the geth getting to that level naturally