405 réponses à ce sujet

[Phlander]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Phlander wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Already did and it has no effect on my stance.

Then why rehash the things that have already been argued over?  You cant blame the entire race for the actions of a few, its that simple.

Also, your comment about them being bad soldiers... I explained why they are tactically superior in the second reply.

So why are you so against the geth? Are you blaming the whole race for what the Heretics did? And what the Reapers did to them in ME3? The quarians weren't indocrinated to attack the geth, they did it on their own.

They can die from a single punture in their suit due to their immune system.

Trying to do anything while feverish/delirious is difficult; trying to aim a gun and actually hit your target is borderling impossible, so they are not good ground forces.

Geth on the overhand aren't. They can carry on with injuries that would kill an organic, they can share all information with each other without bias, and they can replace their physical platforms a lot quicker than quarians. They are also more technologically advanced than the quarians, who have to nick weapons from the geth in order to try and make them.

Ive discussed this several times as well, I dont hate the geth at all, as far as morality goes, its a dead draw to me.  Im only arguing against the idea that quarians are completely wrong.

Praytell, how will a quarian get a suit puncture while running supply lines?  Also, the Geth throughout the series have had strong shields, but weak health, so i dont think theyre actualy that sturdy, and surely given the vulnerability of quarians they would invest in their own kinetic barriers

[Khajiit Jzargo]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...


Stop acting all high and mighty.

"Unlogical"....right, because I won't side with morons who started a war over a question?

Many did and got killed for it by member of their own race. And no where did it say "Most quarians didn't want to go to war" it seemed to be only a small number.

Yes, they get their suits puntured and boom, dead from infection in a few hours. That's fairly sucky combat. Their fleets don't work against reaper ground forces, unless nuking the whole place is all you want to do.

Once again, stop acting all high and mighty.

Yes, unlogical because you claim things and back it up with stupid logic, don't you know the definition of the word.

Actually do more research, it was well over half, but it soon lowered once people started dying. Also, again, you can't comprehend simple scenarios, if your govermnent told you that some robots they created went rogue, you would be against the Geth too, because you obviously choose to believe your govermnent and haven't heard the other side.

It doesn't mean they can't fight, and their fleet is not suppose to be used against ground forces all the time, are you daft?

I'm not acting all high and mighty, I'm presenting my argument with common sense something you seem incapable of doing.

So the quarians didn't start the Morning War and attack the geth while the Reapers were invading? Well, that's good to know.

You mean when the quarians who wanted the geth to die started killing the sympathizers?

So even though they can die from one bullet wound due to infection they are better ground fighters than geth, and their ships are all second-hand and get patched up all the time they are better than geth ships?

I did, you just chose to ignore and be all "Omg wow look at you"

Yes, the Quarians started the Morning Wars, but it was because their leaders ordered them too and then told them to go against the Geth, it's like you completely ignore everything I previously wrote and decided to start acting obtuse because you don't have a leg to stand on. Also, again, the Geth invasion happen because of two admirals, the Quarians didn't want to go to war. And the way that response that you just wrote shows me the concept and basis of your logic.

You mean the Geth who bombed Quarian babies? See what I did there, I spilled non-sense that wasn't pertaining to the arguement, just like you did.

I never claimed they were better ground fighters than the Geth, keep your words out of my mouth. And the Quarians have the best fleet in the galaxy this is confirmed, no matter what you think.

Nope, you have yet to provide anything that makes any sort of sense.

[ForThessia]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I don't care if 3/4 of the Quarians died. If they chose to slaughter the Geth instead of be rational then they can live with the consequences which of course are death, death, and more death and they will deserve it. I can't find sympathy for people who started a war with the intent of wiping out an entire species and then it going south on them.

Your ignoring the point, I'm explaining to you why Koris joined them anyway, even though he disagrees with the other Quarian who wants to go to war, he has to defend or else his species dies? What's so hard to understand?

Because if you disagree with something you should put your foot down.  Even if Koris and the others who opposed it were well intentioned, they are still an accomplice to the crime and have to pay the consequences.  If you help a friend break into a store and kill and rob the cashier so he can get the money to pay for his daughters cancer treatment, you are still wrong.  When the cops catch you, you still have to pay for your crime regardless of your reasoning.  If you were against it, you should have told your friend you were not going along with his plan.

Sorry, but this scenario is more complex than that. Is either you do something you don't want to do or well over half your species dies, you can bet if that was the case for humanity we would do it in a heartbeat.

Not really.  That well over half of my species is wrong.  If over half of my species was going in an endeavour I found morally reprehensible as well as quite hazardous, I am not going to throw my support because yay humanity.  I will not compromise my values because I am outnumbered.  If their idea is wrong with 10 people following it, it is wrong with 4.5 billion following it.  If those 4.5 billion have to die before they see the truth, so be it but I will never support them.  

so 4.5 billion people can die because you want to preserve your morals? very selfish

[Ryzaki]

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet. Mostly for the reason that they have ships simply for living on. Slapping guns on those (which of course violate the Fairxen or whatever treaty) gives them the largest battle worthy fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:42 .

[RadicalDisconnect]

For all the people who are using the innocent children/babies catchphrase, don't you think that the quarians themselves are partly responsible for putting them in danger by arming civilian ships? Just food for thought.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I don't care if 3/4 of the Quarians died. If they chose to slaughter the Geth instead of be rational then they can live with the consequences which of course are death, death, and more death and they will deserve it. I can't find sympathy for people who started a war with the intent of wiping out an entire species and then it going south on them.

Your ignoring the point, I'm explaining to you why Koris joined them anyway, even though he disagrees with the other Quarian who wants to go to war, he has to defend or else his species dies? What's so hard to understand?

Because if you disagree with something you should put your foot down.  Even if Koris and the others who opposed it were well intentioned, they are still an accomplice to the crime and have to pay the consequences.  If you help a friend break into a store and kill and rob the cashier so he can get the money to pay for his daughters cancer treatment, you are still wrong.  When the cops catch you, you still have to pay for your crime regardless of your reasoning.  If you were against it, you should have told your friend you were not going along with his plan.

Sorry, but this scenario is more complex than that. Is either you do something you don't want to do or well over half your species dies, you can bet if that was the case for humanity we would do it in a heartbeat.

Not really.  That well over half of my species is wrong.  If over half of my species was going in an endeavour I found morally reprehensible as well as quite hazardous, I am not going to throw my support because yay humanity.  I will not compromise my values because I am outnumbered.  If their idea is wrong with 10 people following it, it is wrong with 4.5 billion following it.  If those 4.5 billion have to die before they see the truth, so be it but I will never support them.  

You seem to understand that their are three admirals each control their own fleet, if an admiral wants to attack, their whole fleet attacks. And maybe you wouldn't throw your support, but 99% of people who have a brain would because they don't want to see their people die.

[Phlander]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

Supply. Freaking. Lines.

Geth are not capable of doing that, and our organic fighters are useless without supplies, theyll just starve and become more reaper troops.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

They do, I can prove it to you.
Do the Math

http://masseffect.wi..._Assets/Quarian

http://masseffect.wi...r_Assets/Turian

[justafan]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Phlander wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Already did and it has no effect on my stance.

Then why rehash the things that have already been argued over?  You cant blame the entire race for the actions of a few, its that simple.

Also, your comment about them being bad soldiers... I explained why they are tactically superior in the second reply.

So why are you so against the geth? Are you blaming the whole race for what the Heretics did? And what the Reapers did to them in ME3? The quarians weren't indocrinated to attack the geth, they did it on their own.

They can die from a single punture in their suit due to their immune system.

Trying to do anything while feverish/delirious is difficult; trying to aim a gun and actually hit your target is borderling impossible, so they are not good ground forces.

Geth on the overhand aren't. They can carry on with injuries that would kill an organic, they can share all information with each other without bias, and they can replace their physical platforms a lot quicker than quarians. They are also more technologically advanced than the quarians, who have to nick weapons from the geth in order to try and make them.

Sorry, have to add something.  The Quarians are clearly inferior in a combat role.  They have a formidable fleet but it is inferior to the geth fleet at ship-to-ship combat, hence the countermeasures.  The Quarians are also inferior ground troops, for obvious reasons, even though the Krogan consider them strong.

What the Quarians add to the war however, is something the galaxy is sorely lacking, logistical support.  Fifty thousand ships can get an awful lot of supplies to the front line, evacuate millions from a besieged colony, and if forced into a combat role can provide the most accurate orbital bombardments around.  Geth ships won't even have life-support.  They may not have combat prowess, but there is more to war than shooting stuff.

Also, the Quarians chose to attack the Geth as a means of survival, they saw no other option in the face of an imminent reaper invasion and extinction.  the Geth made the same mistake of siding with the Reapers as a means of survival in the face of extinction.  Legion acknkowledges that they are both equally culpable for the situation.

[Ryzaki]

Phlander wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

Supply. Freaking. Lines.

Geth are not capable of doing that, and our organic fighters are useless without supplies, theyll just starve and become more reaper troops.

Supply lines =/= best fleet.

Useful? sure but the alliance clearly already has ships for supply lines. (as well as the other species) the loss of the Quarians isn't devastating to the war effort. Would they be useful? Sure. But certainly not a do or die situation.

...says who? And who's to say the Geth 's bringing more battle worthy (and better equipped) ships wouldn't free up some barely severicible ships to be used for supplies? You work with what you've got. No one starves without the Quarians.

[Ryzaki]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

They do, I can prove it to you.
Do the Math

http://masseffect.wi..._Assets/Quarian

http://masseffect.wi...r_Assets/Turian

How about you play the game and talk to Raan.

WA doesn't really mean a heck of a lot. Using that logic humanity has the best everything because you get the most assets from them.

[BluSoldier]

 Save the Quarians.  AI freak me out.  Also, they are not truly alive, for they are just computers.

[silentassassin264]

ForThessia wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I don't care if 3/4 of the Quarians died. If they chose to slaughter the Geth instead of be rational then they can live with the consequences which of course are death, death, and more death and they will deserve it. I can't find sympathy for people who started a war with the intent of wiping out an entire species and then it going south on them.

Your ignoring the point, I'm explaining to you why Koris joined them anyway, even though he disagrees with the other Quarian who wants to go to war, he has to defend or else his species dies? What's so hard to understand?

Because if you disagree with something you should put your foot down.  Even if Koris and the others who opposed it were well intentioned, they are still an accomplice to the crime and have to pay the consequences.  If you help a friend break into a store and kill and rob the cashier so he can get the money to pay for his daughters cancer treatment, you are still wrong.  When the cops catch you, you still have to pay for your crime regardless of your reasoning.  If you were against it, you should have told your friend you were not going along with his plan.

Sorry, but this scenario is more complex than that. Is either you do something you don't want to do or well over half your species dies, you can bet if that was the case for humanity we would do it in a heartbeat.

Not really.  That well over half of my species is wrong.  If over half of my species was going in an endeavour I found morally reprehensible as well as quite hazardous, I am not going to throw my support because yay humanity.  I will not compromise my values because I am outnumbered.  If their idea is wrong with 10 people following it, it is wrong with 4.5 billion following it.  If those 4.5 billion have to die before they see the truth, so be it but I will never support them.  

so 4.5 billion people can die because you want to preserve your morals? very selfish

If they are wrong like say, trying to wipe out another sentient race, then yes.  Is it selfish to acknowledge the rights of our newly sentient toasters and LCD TVs?  They have the right to live as well and if 4.5 billion can't see that and go off to war to fight the LCD TVs and lose, it is on them.  I refuse to take part on a monstrous act like that.  It isn't even like they have anything to gain.  In the Quarians case, as Ryazaki said, the Reapers are taking homeworlds.  They have nothing to gain by taking Rannoch because if the Crucible didn't work or your Shepard is a sadist and chose refuse, the Reapers would just head to Rannoch and kill them all anyway.  

[Phlander]

Ryzaki wrote...

Phlander wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

Supply. Freaking. Lines.

Geth are not capable of doing that, and our organic fighters are useless without supplies, theyll just starve and become more reaper troops.

Supply lines =/= best fleet.

Useful? sure but the alliance clearly already has ships for supply lines. (as well as the other species) the loss of the Quarians isn't devastating to the war effort. Would they be useful? Sure. But certainly not a do or die situation.

...says who? And who's to say the Geth 's bringing more battle worthy (and better equipped) ships wouldn't free up some barely severicible ships to be used for supplies? You work with what you've got. No one starves without the Quarians.

Clearly they dont, hackett seemed pretty desperate for quarian aid.

And the Geth would only need cargo space for their combat hardware, they likely have little room to spare.  If we take out the hardware, we could bring supplies, sure, but were leaving behind that hardware.

[KiwiQuiche]

Phlander wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...


So why are you so against the geth? Are you blaming the whole race for what the Heretics did? And what the Reapers did to them in ME3? The quarians weren't indocrinated to attack the geth, they did it on their own.

They can die from a single punture in their suit due to their immune system.

Trying to do anything while feverish/delirious is difficult; trying to aim a gun and actually hit your target is borderling impossible, so they are not good ground forces.

Geth on the overhand aren't. They can carry on with injuries that would kill an organic, they can share all information with each other without bias, and they can replace their physical platforms a lot quicker than quarians. They are also more technologically advanced than the quarians, who have to nick weapons from the geth in order to try and make them.

Ive discussed this several times as well, I dont hate the geth at all, as far as morality goes, its a dead draw to me.  Im only arguing against the idea that quarians are completely wrong.

Praytell, how will a quarian get a suit puncture while running supply lines?  Also, the Geth throughout the series have had strong shields, but weak health, so i dont think theyre actualy that sturdy, and surely given the vulnerability of quarians they would invest in their own kinetic barriers

Maybe because Reaper troops will attack them? Or bandits/mercaneries? Easiest way to win a war is to simply starve the opposition of what they need, cutting out supply lines is an easy way to do this.
Quarians aren't good fighters, Reegar says that himself as it gets messy very quickly for them, due to their poor health.

Yes, but geth evolve very quickly and they can replace themselves quickly as well.
Also, that argument can be in favour of the geth as well.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

They do, I can prove it to you.
Do the Math

http://masseffect.wi..._Assets/Quarian

http://masseffect.wi...r_Assets/Turian

How about you play the game and talk to Raan.

WA doesn't really mean a heck of a lot. Using that logic humanity has the best everything because you get the most assets from them.

Actually no, Humanity has the biggest WA, but not when it comes to fleets.

Also, Raan did tell me they had the best fleet, even though they went a little crazy by arming every ship with no armor.

[justafan]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

They do, I can prove it to you.
Do the Math

http://masseffect.wi..._Assets/Quarian

http://masseffect.wi...r_Assets/Turian

How about you play the game and talk to Raan.

WA doesn't really mean a heck of a lot. Using that logic humanity has the best everything because you get the most assets from them.

Actually no, Humanity has the biggest WA, but not when it comes to fleets.

Also, Raan did tell me they had the best fleet, even though they went a little crazy by arming every ship with no armor.

In all fairness, I believe the quote was they "could give even the Turians pause".  Not that they were the best, merely they could give the best a run for their money.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

justafan wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ugh. Quarians do not have the best fleet where are people getting that garbage? They have the LARGEST fleet.

The Turians outclass them in firepower.

They do, I can prove it to you.
Do the Math

http://masseffect.wi..._Assets/Quarian

http://masseffect.wi...r_Assets/Turian

How about you play the game and talk to Raan.

WA doesn't really mean a heck of a lot. Using that logic humanity has the best everything because you get the most assets from them.

Actually no, Humanity has the biggest WA, but not when it comes to fleets.

Also, Raan did tell me they had the best fleet, even though they went a little crazy by arming every ship with no armor.

In all fairness, I believe the quote was they "could give even the Turians pause".  Not that they were the best, merely they could give the best a run for their money.

Tali told me otherwise, but it's all speculations.

[KiwiQuiche]

justafan wrote...


Sorry, have to add something.  The Quarians are clearly inferior in a combat role.  They have a formidable fleet but it is inferior to the geth fleet at ship-to-ship combat, hence the countermeasures.  The Quarians are also inferior ground troops, for obvious reasons, even though the Krogan consider them strong.

What the Quarians add to the war however, is something the galaxy is sorely lacking, logistical support.  Fifty thousand ships can get an awful lot of supplies to the front line, evacuate millions from a besieged colony, and if forced into a combat role can provide the most accurate orbital bombardments around.  Geth ships won't even have life-support.  They may not have combat prowess, but there is more to war than shooting stuff.

Also, the Quarians chose to attack the Geth as a means of survival, they saw no other option in the face of an imminent reaper invasion and extinction.  the Geth made the same mistake of siding with the Reapers as a means of survival in the face of extinction.  Legion acknkowledges that they are both equally culpable for the situation.

True, but that getting people away from enemies doesn't work if you can't kill them. Running can only work for so long, you need to kill them to really escape.

But seriously, what the hell did the quarians think getting their homeworld back would accomplish? It offers nothing.

"Oh yay, our homeworld! Lets celebrate- Wait, what's that?"
*Reapers invade and kill everyone.*

Their homeworld wouldn't grant them magical fighting powers or immedietly cure their weak immune system.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .

[Ryzaki]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
ctually no, Humanity has the biggest WA, but not when it comes to fleets.

Also, Raan did tell me they had the best fleet, even though they went a little crazy by arming every ship with no armor.

In general humanity has the largest amount of WA.

She says they have the LARGEST fleet but the Turians have more firepower.

Ugh here.

6:19

And putting Thannix cannons on their liveships. *facepalms* While it would make perfect sense against Reapers (they'd target civilians REGARDLESS)  is utterly idiotic against Geth.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:50 .

[silentassassin264]

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
You seem to understand that their are three admirals each control their own fleet, if an admiral wants to attack, their whole fleet attacks. And maybe you wouldn't throw your support, but 99% of people who have a brain would because they don't want to see their people die.

Organize mass secondary pilgramages and get the heck out of there.  I would have nothing to do with that.  I wouldn't want to see my people die but if they were hellbent on suicide they can do it without me.  I am not going to support killing off an entire species for no good reason.

[Khajiit Jzargo]

ForThessia wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

I don't care if 3/4 of the Quarians died. If they chose to slaughter the Geth instead of be rational then they can live with the consequences which of course are death, death, and more death and they will deserve it. I can't find sympathy for people who started a war with the intent of wiping out an entire species and then it going south on them.

Your ignoring the point, I'm explaining to you why Koris joined them anyway, even though he disagrees with the other Quarian who wants to go to war, he has to defend or else his species dies? What's so hard to understand?

Because if you disagree with something you should put your foot down.  Even if Koris and the others who opposed it were well intentioned, they are still an accomplice to the crime and have to pay the consequences.  If you help a friend break into a store and kill and rob the cashier so he can get the money to pay for his daughters cancer treatment, you are still wrong.  When the cops catch you, you still have to pay for your crime regardless of your reasoning.  If you were against it, you should have told your friend you were not going along with his plan.

Sorry, but this scenario is more complex than that. Is either you do something you don't want to do or well over half your species dies, you can bet if that was the case for humanity we would do it in a heartbeat.

Not really.  That well over half of my species is wrong.  If over half of my species was going in an endeavour I found morally reprehensible as well as quite hazardous, I am not going to throw my support because yay humanity.  I will not compromise my values because I am outnumbered.  If their idea is wrong with 10 people following it, it is wrong with 4.5 billion following it.  If those 4.5 billion have to die before they see the truth, so be it but I will never support them.  

so 4.5 billion people can die because you want to preserve your morals? very selfish

Don't even bother with him, he's still going to say he would let 4.5 billion people die because he disagrees with them. So why bother?

[ForThessia]

silentassassin264 wrote...


If they are wrong like say, trying to wipe out another sentient race, then yes.  Is it selfish to acknowledge the rights of our newly sentient toasters and LCD TVs?  They have the right to live as well and if 4.5 billion can't see that and go off to war to fight the LCD TVs and lose, it is on them.  I refuse to take part on a monstrous act like that.  It isn't even like they have anything to gain.  In the Quarians case, as Ryazaki said, the Reapers are taking homeworlds.  They have nothing to gain by taking Rannoch because if the Crucible didn't work or your Shepard is a sadist and chose refuse, the Reapers would just head to Rannoch and kill them all anyway.  

ok have fun when the LCD TVs and Toasters beat those people because you were too proud and rightous to help and then they come pack and slaughter you, your family and your friends because they are machines with no concept of right and wrong.

Modifié par ForThessia, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:52 .

[Khajiit Jzargo]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Khajiit Jzargo wrote...
You seem to understand that their are three admirals each control their own fleet, if an admiral wants to attack, their whole fleet attacks. And maybe you wouldn't throw your support, but 99% of people who have a brain would because they don't want to see their people die.

Organize mass secondary pilgramages and get the heck out of there.  I would have nothing to do with that.  I wouldn't want to see my people die but if they were hellbent on suicide they can do it without me.  I am not going to support killing off an entire species for no good reason.

To be fair, it was to kick them out of Rannoch and retake their homeworld, not to extirmanate the Geth.

[Ryzaki]

Phlander wrote...
Clearly they dont, hackett seemed pretty desperate for quarian aid.

And the Geth would only need cargo space for their combat hardware, they likely have little room to spare.  If we take out the hardware, we could bring supplies, sure, but were leaving behind that hardware.

Clearly either the geth make a difference or Hackett's not that desperate because his reaction to you not getting the Quarian's isn't a big "Crap." So no he wasn't desperate. He could've used it (they're in a tight situation) but at the end of the day it wasn't going to end up with them losing the war.

...did you completely miss the big ass Geth Dreadnaught? There was plenty of room on that damn thing!