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[Eluril]

If synthesis can be dismissed as "space magic" and not plausible in the ME universe then the following can also be labeled "Space magic"

Reaper indoctrination - How does that work?
Reaper liquification and mind absorbtion - How does that work?
Liara's gift and asari psionic abilities - How does that work?
The Citadel and the mass relays - How does that work?
Guns that shoot shaved pieces of metal  - How does that work?
Biotics - How does that work?
Shepard absorbing the "collective conscious" of the Protheans via the Thorian - How does that work?
The Prothean beacons - How does that work?

The Guardian of Forever in Star Trek - How does that work?
The Monoliths in 2001: a Space Odyssey - How does that work?
The Black Oil in Prometheus - How does that work?

The truth is science fiction only needs to be plausible to a point. I don't want people on a space ship poring over navigation charts, calculating geometry for hours or days on end. I want a setting and story that intrigues me, that gets me to think about man's relationship to technology and the future.

Mass Effect more than fulfilled this and Synthesis seems to me just as plausible an effect of the advanced technology of the Crucible as most if not all of the elements listed above.

Modifié par Eluril, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:09 .

[AresKeith]

those have been explain in the codex while Synthesis came out of nowhere

[legion999]

The first six have been explained.

And Prometheus isn't exactly known for great writing.

Modifié par legion999, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:11 .

[Eluril]

Hmm kind of crazy but I don't remember being able to access the Codex post-ending. Must have missed that on my last playthrough.

[Tealjaker94]

None of those are introduced at the conclusion of the series with absolutely no exposition and cause a galaxy wide change.

[DEATHSCOPE]

AresKeith wrote...

those have been explain in the codex while Synthesis came out of nowhere

QFT.

[legion999]

Eluril wrote...

Hmm kind of crazy but I don't remember being able to access the Codex post-ending. Must have missed that on my last playthrough.

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[Eluril]

legion999 wrote...

The first six have been explained.

And Prometheus isn't exactly known for great writing.

What do you mean by "explained"? A few lines in a codex or a few lines of dialogue were more than enough to explain how it works in the universe. I'm perfectly happy with that. What I am getting at is that people focus on things being "explained" in the universe as if it needs to have to be diagrammed exactly how it would work. That's not science fiction, that's a scientific colloquium.

And Ridley Scott should be praised for having the balls to use visuals to tell as much of his story as he can in Prometheus. And care to debate me on whether Prometheus is better than Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection?

[Ticonderoga117]

Eluril wrote...
Reaper indoctrination - How does that work?
Reaper liquification and mind absorbtion - How does that work?
Liara's gift and asari psionic abilities - How does that work?
The Citadel and the mass relays - How does that work?
Guns that shoot shaved pieces of metal  - How does that work?
Biotics - How does that work?
Shepard absorbing the "collective conscious" of the Protheans via the Thorian - How does that work?
The Prothean beacons - How does that work?

1. Explained in the Codex.
2. Probably based on "genetic memory" ala Javik.
3. Same as 2, remember, the Protheans gave them helpful nudges.
4. Citadel is just a bigger mass relay which is explained in the codex.
5. Explained in the codex.
6. Explained in the codex.
7. Probably similiar function of Protheans.
8. Prothean genetic memory thing.

So, most of these are explained with a bit of science and a dollop of fiction. The rest is explained with a tiny bit of science, and a lot more fiction.

See this tvtropes page for more details on how SciFi is generally handled.

Mass Effect, in general, leaned towards Hard/Soft SciFi until the endings where it went full fantasy.

[NoUserNameHere]

The op has no concept of suspension of disbelief or even genre conventions.

Move on. Flee, before someone mentions Clarke's laws.

(the black goop from Prometheus is blatant space magic of Plotkai-calibre, by the way. This is a conversation for another day)

[Eluril]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eluril wrote...
Reaper indoctrination - How does that work?
Reaper liquification and mind absorbtion - How does that work?
Liara's gift and asari psionic abilities - How does that work?
The Citadel and the mass relays - How does that work?
Guns that shoot shaved pieces of metal  - How does that work?
Biotics - How does that work?
Shepard absorbing the "collective conscious" of the Protheans via the Thorian - How does that work?
The Prothean beacons - How does that work?

1. Explained in the Codex.
2. Probably based on "genetic memory" ala Javik.
3. Same as 2, remember, the Protheans gave them helpful nudges.
4. Citadel is just a bigger mass relay which is explained in the codex.
5. Explained in the codex.
6. Explained in the codex.
7. Probably similiar function of Protheans.
8. Prothean genetic memory thing.

So, most of these are explained with a bit of science and a dollop of fiction. The rest is explained with a tiny bit of science, and a lot more fiction.

See this tvtropes page for more details on how SciFi is generally handled.

Mass Effect, in general, leaned towards Hard/Soft SciFi until the endings where it went full fantasy.

http://en.wikipedia....ularity_Is_Near

Is this book and the ideas in it "full fantasy"? Because as far as I can tell the merging of organic with synthetic life is not only possible in the far future, but in the near 100-200 year period without the use of Mass Relays or Black Monoliths is quite plausible.

[Gabylan001]

lol! everything is explained in the codex! synthesis dont

[Heeden]

Eluril wrote...

If synthesis can be dismissed as "space magic" and not plausible in the ME universe then the following can also be labeled "Space magic"

Reaper indoctrination - How does that work?

Very advanced science (EM emissions attuned to the frequencies of the human brain, nano-tech).

Reaper liquification and mind absorbtion - How does that work?

Very advanced and unproven science (genetic memory) and/or magic - (psychic impressions).

Liara's gift and asari psionic abilities - How does that work?

See above.

The Citadel and the mass relays - How does that work?

Magic - (magic metal breaks physics).

Guns that shoot shaved pieces of metal  - How does that work?

Very advanced science (micro force-fields and railguns).

Biotics - How does that work?

Magic with pseudo-science (Magic metal breaks physics, pseudo-science allows people to make use).

Shepard absorbing the "collective conscious" of the Protheans via the Thorian - How does that work?

See Reaper liquification / Liara's gift.

The Prothean beacons - How does that work?

See above.

The Guardian of Forever in Star Trek - How does that work?
The Monoliths in 2001: a Space Odyssey - How does that work?
The Black Oil in Prometheus - How does that work?

No idea.

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

those have been explain in the codex while Synthesis came out of nowhere

Yet most people would label them as magic like how biotic powers is the to space magic.

Tealjaker94 wrote... 

None of those are introduced at the conclusion of the series with absolutely no exposition and cause a galaxy wide change.

I guess you missed the introduction of the Reapers and the Citadel. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 02:21 .

[xsdob]

How can something go faster than light when light has next to no mass and can only go as fast as light?

[Eluril]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

The op has no concept of suspension of disbelief or even genre conventions.

Move on. Flee, before someone mentions Clarke's laws.

(the black goop from Prometheus is blatant space magic of Plotkai-calibre, by the way. This is a conversation for another day)

That's exactly what I meant. Space magic is a stupid complaint for the most part used to wave away things and declare some things "off limits" in a science fiction setting which is supposed to be about crazy ideas.

Again, The Guardian of Forever....is that "Space magic"? Who cares if it is, it leads to great storytelling.

[NoUserNameHere]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

those have been explain in the codex while Synthesis came out of nowhere

Yet most people would label them as magic like how biotic powers is the to space magic.

... and yet, it is applied consistently, so there is little disbelief to be violently throttled like Larry the Agonizing Existence Husk's poor Banshee therapist. 

[legion999]

Eluril wrote...

What do you mean by "explained"? A few lines in a codex or a few lines of dialogue were more than enough to explain how it works in the universe. I'm perfectly happy with that. What I am getting at is that people focus on things being "explained" in the universe as if it needs to have to be diagrammed exactly how it would work. That's not science fiction, that's a scientific colloquium.

And Ridley Scott should be praised for having the balls to use visuals to tell as much of his story as he can in Prometheus. And care to debate me on whether Prometheus is better than Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection?

"Explained" as in they are the established as rules in the universe. Biotics, guns that fire shards of metal and faster than light travel are all possible. We have nothing to suggest Synthesis is plausible nevermind possible. Introducing such unbelievable tech without any explanation or foreshadowing is stupid.

Never seen Alien 3 or Resurrection though I've heard I'm not missing much. And story is one thing. Moronic characters is another.

[o Ventus]

Eluril wrote...

If synthesis can be dismissed as "space magic" and not plausible in the ME universe then the following can also be labeled "Space magic"

Reaper indoctrination - How does that work?
Reaper liquification and mind absorbtion - How does that work?
Liara's gift and asari psionic abilities - How does that work?
The Citadel and the mass relays - How does that work?
Guns that shoot shaved pieces of metal  - How does that work?
Biotics - How does that work?
Shepard absorbing the "collective conscious" of the Protheans via the Thorian - How does that work?
The Prothean beacons - How does that work?

Indoctrination- conditioning the brain through various signals emitted via ultra- and infrasound. It's REALLY subtle brainwashing. Not space magic.

Reaper liquification is not space magic. Meaning, the liquification itself. 

Asari biology and physiology is space magic.

The mass relays use eezo to create a corridor of nearly mass-free space, allowing for instantaneous transit between 2 locations. The "super advanced tech" argument applies to this, because an effort is put in place to explain how it operates.

Firearms shave a piece of metal off a larger block, then reduce its mass via eezo, and finally propel it out of the gun via a powerful electromagnet. Not space magic.

Biotics operate via biotic amps in the subjects brain. Electrical impulses in the subject's nervous system energize the amps and produce mass effect fields. Again, not space magic.

The Cipher is space magic.

The beacons utilize the protheans' unique ability to transfer DNA through touch. This one is iffy.

As long as a plausible explanation is given as to how it works, it isn't space magic. Out of your examples, only 2 are legitimately space magic, and 1 is debatable. Synthesis is space magic because the "explanation" (haha) is not remotely plausible, even by the in-game universe's internal ruleset.

[ElementL09]

Synthesis isn't plausible. I wont speculate about Control, but for Destory, using the Crucible as a super weapon to target and destroy/disable Synthetic technology is more feasible then genetically altering organics and synthetics for synthesis.

[Ticonderoga117]

Eluril wrote...
http://en.wikipedia....ularity_Is_Near

Is this book and the ideas in it "full fantasy"? Because as far as I can tell the merging of organic with synthetic life is not only possible in the far future, but in the near 100-200 year period without the use of Mass Relays or Black Monoliths is quite plausible.

"He describes the singularity as resulting from a combination of three
important technologies of the 21st century: genetics, nanotechnology,
and robotics (including artificial intelligence)."

See, here's the thing. I've read two books series that talk about this same, dang, thing. Both used science fiction to explain how this is possible. I call it science fiction because we can't quite do it yet. However, it STILL BLOODY EXPLAINS HOW IT WORKS.

Synthesis says: "Yeah, I can do all of that, but I do it in a green wave of EM energy."

That's not science. That's pure fiction right there. Not once was is even HINTED at how the HELL this works. It lacks any science what-so-ever.

[Baa Baa]

Tealjaker94 wrote...

None of those are introduced at the conclusion of the series with absolutely no exposition and cause a galaxy wide change.

[Tealjaker94]

xsdob wrote...

How can something go faster than light when light has next to no mass and can only go as fast as light?

This is ignored in nearly every sci-fi franchise ever. It's a staple that FTL travel is somehow achieved. It's relatively more constrained in mass effect. 

[Ticonderoga117]

xsdob wrote...

How can something go faster than light when light has next to no mass and can only go as fast as light?

Einstein-Rosen Bridges or make something massless, which is what eezo does, which is explained in the codex.

It's not hard Science Fiction, but it tries harder than Synthesis.

[Eluril]

legion999 wrote...

Eluril wrote...

What do you mean by "explained"? A few lines in a codex or a few lines of dialogue were more than enough to explain how it works in the universe. I'm perfectly happy with that. What I am getting at is that people focus on things being "explained" in the universe as if it needs to have to be diagrammed exactly how it would work. That's not science fiction, that's a scientific colloquium.

And Ridley Scott should be praised for having the balls to use visuals to tell as much of his story as he can in Prometheus. And care to debate me on whether Prometheus is better than Alien 3 or Alien Resurrection?

"Explained" as in they are the established as rules in the universe. Biotics, guns that fire shards of metal and faster than light travel are all possible. We have nothing to suggest Synthesis is plausible nevermind possible. Introducing such unbelievable tech without any explanation or foreshadowing is stupid.

Never seen Alien 3 or Resurrection though I've heard I'm not missing much. And story is one thing. Moronic characters is another.

Lack of foreshadowing is a different argument. Again, what I'm saying is that Science fiction is supposed to be about technology beyond our comprehension. Therefore it is stupid from the perspective of a science fiction setting to label certain things "space magic" and unacceptable as long as they are given an adequate level of explanation in the setting. You really believe if there was "post-game" content that bioware wouldn't have all kinds of codex entries ready to go to explain it at least at the level of biotics?