661 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

o Ventus wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

Oh the Irony

The fact that you used the word "irony" here tells me you don't know what irony actually is.

This is the real irony.

[Krunjar]

A picture of a humorous chimp! my only weakness! Grrarrrgggh /rolls over dead.

Seriously though picspam .. try harder.

Modifié par Krunjar, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:57 .

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet the force is explained by magical bacteria, there's a lot than nanomachines to the Borg, and the human cylons are just robots like the normal cylons.

Never said midichlorians was a good idea. Bad writing.

A tad. Assimiliate more species and knowledge to get closer to perfection, but nano-tech explains most of thier abilities.

And the human cyclons are NOT regular robots. Have you seen the series?

The mido is the source of the force,  the Borg are still magical, and yes they're robots in general.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

and notice the word science, even tho its fiction, it still needs to work on the level of science, nothing in ME1 and 2 happened in the way Synthesis did

So there was no Saren and Project Overlord.

did a giant green energy wave do that to them?

[Ticonderoga117]

Blueprotoss wrote...
The mido is the source of the force,  the Borg are still magical, and yes they're robots in general.

I know, still bad writing.

How?

And no.

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eluril wrote...
Just stop arguing with these guys. See they're "Super sci-fi hard hard super hard sci-fi hard I mean rock hard" badasses because they can read a few lines of text in a codex or wiki and that makes them judge of what is acceptable to a science-fiction (NOTICE THE WORD "FICTION") universe.

It's not hard sci-fi, but ME has always had SOME level of explanation in it's tech pretty much.
That's been said in this thread time and time again, please remove your head from the dirt.

You should practice what you preach.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

TLDR: It's not only that it's implausible, it's that it doesn't fit the universe and comes completely out of left field to radically alter the plot and the very fabric of the setting.

Saren and Project Overlord.  Btw you could say that about Control and to a degree with Destroy.

What? Saren was explained as Reaper implants, similar to those of the Husks. We never know precisely how these work, but we know it allows the Reapers to take over the body of an individual with synthetics and make them a thrall. Most importantly, we clearly see how it is done. Either via Dragon's Teeth or injection of what is presumably nanites in Cerberus's case. Nothing like doing a similar process, instantly, harmlessly, to a whole galaxy.

Project Overlord was soft sci-fi. David is an autist and a math genius (plausible), so plugging him into a specialized machine can make him mimic Geth orders (OK, so far so good) and take control of technology (uh yeah a bit too soft for my liking but still explained and he still can't do it instantly. It's a bit like a virus). Again, hacking and controlling VIs/AIs are hardly strangers to the universe.

I completely covered Control and Destroy in my post. Did you even read or did you just jump on the TLDR?

EDIT: OK, reviewing the thread, this guy can only be a troll. Never mind, he just won't read what I wrote if it takes more than a line to berate.

Modifié par Giantdeathrobot, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:59 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

and notice the word science, even tho its fiction, it still needs to work on the level of science, nothing in ME1 and 2 happened in the way Synthesis did

So there was no Saren and Project Overlord.

did a giant green energy wave do that to them?

Thats a huge straw-mann.

[Krunjar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

and notice the word science, even tho its fiction, it still needs to work on the level of science, nothing in ME1 and 2 happened in the way Synthesis did

So there was no Saren and Project Overlord.

did a giant green energy wave do that to them?

Thats a huge straw-mann.

Also it's no less scientifically viable than the selective nature of destroy.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

and notice the word science, even tho its fiction, it still needs to work on the level of science, nothing in ME1 and 2 happened in the way Synthesis did

So there was no Saren and Project Overlord.

did a giant green energy wave do that to them?

Thats a huge straw-mann.

oh really?, please explain how

if you can't come up with something new to say

[AresKeith]

Krunjar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

and notice the word science, even tho its fiction, it still needs to work on the level of science, nothing in ME1 and 2 happened in the way Synthesis did

So there was no Saren and Project Overlord.

did a giant green energy wave do that to them?

Thats a huge straw-mann.

Also it's no less scientifically viable than the selective nature of destroy.

destroy is basically a giant EMP blast that kills all synthetics, which is just as stupid as the other endings, but it makes some sense

[Blueprotoss]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

What? Saren was explained as Reaper implants, similar to those of the Husks. We never know precisely how these work, but we know it allows the Reapers to take over the body of an individual with synthetics and make them a thrall. Most importantly, we clearly see how it is done. Either via Dragon's Teeth or injection of what is presumably nanites in Cerberus's case. Nothing like doing a similar process, instantly, harmlessly, to a whole galaxy.

Project Overlord was soft sci-fi. David is an autist and a math genius (plausible), so plugging him into a specialized machine can make him mimic Geth orders (OK, so far so good) and take control of technology (uh yeah a bit too soft for my liking but still explained and he still can't do it instantly. It's a bit like a virus). Again, hacking and controlling VIs/AIs are hardly strangers to the universe.

I completely covered Control and Destroy in my post. Did you even read or did you just jump on the TLDR?

If Saren had basic implants then he wouldn't be a p ure example of Synthesis.

Yet controlling robots with or mind like that isn't fact.

Yet the whole synthesis red herring can be said about Control and to a degree with Destroy.

[Ticonderoga117]

Calinstel wrote...
Ya know, I can't believe you actually wrote that.

Every Scifi universe has its very own codex or bible that all its tech is built upon.
Star Trek had one and so does Mass Effect (though retconned extensively throughout the series)
The codex states, beyond any reasonable argument, what is and is not allowed to transpire in that universe.
Anything not covered is SPACE MAGIC.  And if BioWare retcons the ME bible to include synthsis, that bible will turn into the necronomicom!

I own one Star Wars technical manual and two of Star Trek's. They go into EXTENSIVE detail on how the Enterprise in TNG works, from hull contruction to computer systems.

[daecath]

Eluril wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Eluril wrote...

If you hate the game, and it's clear you do by your ranting and raving and the links in your signature, then seriously just leave. I'm fine with debating people, pointing out flaws etc, but it makes no sense to me why you would waste your time coming here. It'd be like me going to a Star Wars prequel forum. I don't like them, so I'm not going to waste my time discussing anything about them. I can easily piece apart many of the things you listed (just a quick example the idea that synthesis destroys individuality and diversity) but truthfully you're not worth the time. (points to the door)

I must say, I love how you disregard the entirety of that person's post on the sole basis of the contents of their signature. 

Ooooh, do mine next.

No I disregard it because it sidesteps my entire argument which is 1. that other well known sci-fi series use "space magic" type things all the time

I'm sorry, but "he started it" wasn't a valid excuse when we were 5, and it's not a valid excuse now. What some other series does or does not do may or may not be appropriate within the context of that series.

Eluril wrote...
and 2. even within Mass Effect there is all kinds of space magic besides Synthesis.

Each of your examples was directly refuted by elements within the game.

Eluril wrote...
Again and again people point to the codex as the end all be all "this makes it SCIENCE!!" argument when in fact the in-game explanations (meaning dialogue IN THE GAME) is either minimal or non-existent for explaining various aspects in the game.

The codex is part of the game.

Eluril wrote...
A throwaway line of dialogue about "Oh this metal if subjected to a current let's everyone be an X-man for the day" is a-o-freaking-k but within the game a fairly extensive discussion by the Catalyst by IN-GAME standards about what synthesis is is just thrown aside because we can't read a few lines of small text in the Codex to make it "SCIENCE!!!"

Make up your mind. Either it's "I don't want people on a space ship poring over navigation charts, calculating geometry for hours or days on end." or "Again and again people point to the codex as the end all be all "this
makes it SCIENCE!!" argument when in fact the in-game explanations
(meaning dialogue IN THE GAME) is either minimal or non-existent for
explaining various aspects in the game. " You don't get to have it both ways.

Eluril wrote...
and 3. The complaint "space magic" is meaningless geek babble.

No, "space magic" refers to an element that is introduced without any precedent. A sci-fi or fantasy story has to have strict rules governing itself, or it loses all believability, relatability, and challenge. If Harry Potter had discovered the "Destroy all evil wizards named Voldemort" spell, the book becomes increadibly boring. If Luke could have used the power of the force to blow up the death star, make his fater good, and turn the emperor into a puppy, then you lose your audience to the jarring WTF moment. If Gandolf could have simply flown over Mordor with an eagle and dropped the ring into the volcano, the story would have been over before it started.

In real life, it is our limitations that create challenges. Climbing a mountain is difficult because of gravity and our lack of wings. A fight is challenging if both opponents are evenly matched. You can't just wave a magic wand and make the other person go away. In a sci-fi/fantasy setting, where literally anything is possible, you have to create those rules in order to create those challenges.

So breaking those rules, especially at the end, takes away the challenge, and takes away the believability. Both for the player and for the character. Take away the challenge, and the story dies. Take away the believability, by introducing something that doesn't fit with the rest of the story, and the story dies. The audience is jarred out of the story.

Eluril wrote...

I'd much rather debate themes, characters, morality and the future of the galaxy than to get into a pointless geek debate about (heavy mouth breather) "It's not actually SCIENCE!!!"

Then why did you start a topic about whether or not it was space magic?

Alright, if you want to debate themes, how about the fact that the synthesis ending basically says that peace is unattainable unless everyone has some element that is fundamentally the same? It basically validates every prejudice out there. Basically what it says is "Synthetics and organics are too different to peacefully coexist unless they merge together into a new hybrid." Ok, that's fine, until you look at the theme itself. "Synthetics" and "Organics" are simply placeholders for any two opposing groups that have a major fundamental difference. You could thematically replace it with "democrats" and "republicans", or "blacks" and "whites", or "christians" and "islamics", etc. Basically, peace is impossible unless everyone is the same. Racists aren't an abboration, they're an inevitable byproduct of race. Our government is doomed to failure because of all the differing viewpoints, so we'd better prepare for another civil war. That's a great, uplifting message.

Or morality. Again, the explanation is sketchy at best, there's no way to know what it would do based on what little the catalyst says. It might make everyone a cyborg. Or a husk. Or give them horrible genetic mutations. So since Shepard is basically using an untested, implausible sounding technology to fundamentally alter every living creature in the galaxy, on the say-so of the leader of the race that is trying to kill everyone, I'd say that's a pretty immoral choice. At the very least, it's a pretty stupid choice to make.

As for the future of the galaxy, Sure, for some it would be better perhaps. But what about all those other races out there that think fire is a gift from the gods. They all suddenly wake up with glowing eyes and skin, what are they going to think? How are they going to react? Will they assume it's some kind of curse, and start sacrificing children and virgins to appease an angry god? Will they see it as some kind of status symbol? I have 3 traces on my left arm, you only have 2, so you're inferior to me.

On a superficial level, synthesis is all puppies and rainbows and Joker getting to have relations with his hot-bot girlfriend. But I'm just not that superficial. And when you start digging, it's just a complete mess.

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
The mido is the source of the force,  the Borg are still magical, and yes they're robots in general.

I know, still bad writing.

How?

And no.

Writing is subjective like in anything inclding sci-fi.

Most of the things about the borg.

Robots making human babies.

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Calinstel wrote...
Ya know, I can't believe you actually wrote that.

Every Scifi universe has its very own codex or bible that all its tech is built upon.
Star Trek had one and so does Mass Effect (though retconned extensively throughout the series)
The codex states, beyond any reasonable argument, what is and is not allowed to transpire in that universe.
Anything not covered is SPACE MAGIC.  And if BioWare retcons the ME bible to include synthsis, that bible will turn into the necronomicom!

I own one Star Wars technical manual and two of Star Trek's. They go into EXTENSIVE detail on how the Enterprise in TNG works, from hull contruction to computer systems.

Yet most of the science fiction is fiction not non-fiction.

[Krunjar]

Calinstel wrote...

Eluril wrote...

Yalision wrote...

 We don't need to know exactly how it works. That is why we can except concepts like Element Zero and the Mass Relays. They are described in enough believable detail in the codex that we can accept them as a reasonable possibility in the fiction.

CODEX CODEX CODEX CODEX that's all I hear in this thread and in your message there.

Ya know, I can't believe you actually wrote that.

Every Scifi universe has its very own codex or bible that all its tech is built upon.
Star Trek had one and so does Mass Effect (though retconned extensively throughout the series)
The codex states, beyond any reasonable argument, what is and is not allowed to transpire in that universe.
Anything not covered is SPACE MAGIC.  And if BioWare retcons the ME bible to include synthsis, that bible will turn into the necronomicom!

This is very true. While sci-fi doesn't have to be bound to conventional science it does have to  remain consistent within the rules of it's own "Universe". However I believe he was trying to say that just because it isn't listed in the codex dousn't mean it isn't part of the Universe. And it is semi validated .. at least in my opinion .. by the fact that the catalyst and the reapers have access to near godlike levels of technology so far ahead of that of the current limitations transcribed in the "Codex" That the fact that they transcent those limitations is not  altogether unexpected. And that beating them conventionally would be about as believable as the scene where the Ewok's beat the empire in Star wars : Return of the Jedi.

[Ticonderoga117]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Writing is subjective like in anything inclding sci-fi.

Most of the things about the borg.

Robots making human babies.

True.

Can I get an example?

On Humanoid Cyclons on information provided from the show itself:

Humanoid Cylons are not merely robots with a human appearance, they
possess actual flesh and blood. They are visually indistinguishable from
humans down to the cellular level, but not completely at a molecular
level.

They are not your standard "robot".

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

destroy is basically a giant EMP blast that kills all synthetics, which is just as stupid as the other endings, but it makes some sense

Yet everyone would have died if it was an EMP.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Blueprotoss wrote...

If Saren had basic implants then he wouldn't be a p ure example of Synthesis.

Yet controlling robots with or mind like that isn't fact.

Yet the whole synthesis red herring can be said about Control and to a degree with Destroy.

You're not making much sense to me. Saren didn't have much more than basic implants, he turned into a rampaging monster in the end, completely taken over by Sovereign, that's not how Synthesis is presented at all. He's a glorified Husk, nothing more.

''isin't fact''? If you only appreciate facts I'm afraid the only piece of entertainment you will every enjoy are history books, and even then. Written by the winners and all that.

Synthesis is a red herring?? wut.

You're just spouting random words. I'm done with you.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

destroy is basically a giant EMP blast that kills all synthetics, which is just as stupid as the other endings, but it makes some sense

Yet everyone would have died if it was an EMP.

and if you read all of my comment I said it was just as dumb as the other endings

read before you replay

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Can I get an example?

On Humanoid Cyclons on information provided from the show itself:

Humanoid Cylons are not merely robots with a human appearance, they
possess actual flesh and blood. They are visually indistinguishable from
humans down to the cellular level, but not completely at a molecular
level.

They are not your standard "robot".

The Borg are  very special cyborgs not explained by facts.

Yet they're mostly based of off the standard cylon and robots havi g human babies is still magic.

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

destroy is basically a giant EMP blast that kills all synthetics, which is just as stupid as the other endings, but it makes some sense

Yet everyone would have died if it was an EMP.

and if you read all of my comment I said it was just as dumb as the other endings

read before you replay

I just pointed out an error.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

destroy is basically a giant EMP blast that kills all synthetics, which is just as stupid as the other endings, but it makes some sense

Yet everyone would have died if it was an EMP.

and if you read all of my comment I said it was just as dumb as the other endings

read before you replay

I just pointed out an error.

well, its not my error its Bioware's