661 réponses à ce sujet

[Heeden]

wizardryforever wrote...

To address the artificial gravity, I believe it is caused by raising the effective mass of the ship to the point that it projects gravity to the degree of a planet the size of Earth.  As I understand it, mass is the determining factor in the force of gravity an object projects.  All objects have gravity, but the strongest gravity overrides the others in most circumstances.  The space magic comes in when you go at FTL speeds (requiring a nullifying of your mass) and still running artificial gravity (requiring a huge raising of your mass) at the same time.

Another problem with the artificial gravity effect is where the centre of gravity would be and problems with the inverse square rule. For FTL travel, if the ME drive does reduce the ship to zero mass (which has some fundamental problems as a concept) any energy you use as thrust should propel you to infinite speed. If it doesn't reduce the ship to zero mass it would require infinite energy to break the speed of light.

o Ventus wrote...

It isn't "changing matter". It's literally conjuring and grafting cybernetics into organics, and giving synthetics the ability to "understand" organics.

That's not what Synthesis does, it isn't even suggested by the Catalyst.

Synthesis mixes Shepard's organic energy with the energy of the Crucible and disperses it across the galaxy. How this allows organics to integrate perfectly with technology is not fully explained, but if unobtainium can turn people in to wizards whilst Asari and Protheans can share information psychically the space-magic is not that far-out in ME terms.

daecath wrote...

"The created will always rebel against their creators." At no point in any of the three games do we see a single example of a synthetic creation making the willful, unprovoked decision to become hostile.

Willful and unprovoked does not come in to it, the Catalyst's concern is the fact conflict will happen, not who is to blame for it. I can't think of a single synthetic who does not come in to conflict with their creators.

o Ventus wrote...

When a series like Mass Effect at least attempts to follow real world theoretical physics and scientific conventions, yeah, it's a little impossible to genetically rewrite everyliving organism in the entire galaxy, bypassing any and all anatomical and biological differences, and doing it in an instantaneous fashion.

Again, that isn't how Synthesis is described. And ME really doesn't follow real-world physics that closely, an awful lot of their technology is made possible by what is an intrinsically magical element.

Modifié par Heeden, 09 juillet 2012 - 05:14 .

[Brakensiek]

Really Synthesis would be no different then how the "dragon's teeth" work.

[Blueprotoss]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...

You're not making much sense to me. Saren didn't have much more than basic implants, he turned into a rampaging monster in the end, completely taken over by Sovereign, that's not how Synthesis is presented at all. He's a glorified Husk, nothing more.

''isin't fact''? If you only appreciate facts I'm afraid the only piece of entertainment you will every enjoy are history books, and even then. Written by the winners and all that.

Synthesis is a red herring?? wut.

You're just spouting random words. I'm done with you.

If Saren had basic Reaper implants then he wouldn't have gone all Terminator, which broke his synthesis after his biological death.

Yet you aren't interested in the facts.

Your explaination.

I'm stating the facts.

[Ticonderoga117]

Blueprotoss wrote...
The Borg are  very special cyborgs not explained by facts.

Yet they're mostly based of off the standard cylon and robots havi g human babies is still magic.

Yes they are. They are implanted with a lot of Tech after being "assimilated" due to nano-tech beginning to convert them. There are facts, you just refuse to see them.

And no. They are NOT based on standard cylons. They are all flesh and blood. They are only different to humans at the molecular level. Thus, they are pretty much humans. What's so hard to understand?

These:


Do not look like these:



There is an in-universe explanation for this. It doesn't go off the scales into "Space Magic".

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

destroy is basically a giant EMP blast that kills all synthetics, which is just as stupid as the other endings, but it makes some sense

Yet everyone would have died if it was an EMP.

and if you read all of my comment I said it was just as dumb as the other endings

read before you replay

I just pointed out an error.

well, its not my error its Bioware's

Actually that was your own error.

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
The Borg are  very special cyborgs not explained by facts.

Yet they're mostly based of off the standard cylon and robots havi g human babies is still magic.

Yes they are. They are implanted with a lot of Tech after being "assimilated" due to nano-tech beginning to convert them. There are facts, you just refuse to see them.

And no. They are NOT based on standard cylons. They are all flesh and blood. They are only different to humans at the molecular level. Thus, they are pretty much humans. What's so hard to understand?

These:


Do not look like these:



There is an in-universe explanation for this. It doesn't go off the scales into "Space Magic".

Yet you're resorting to semantics even when you're contradicting yourself while its magic.

[Ticonderoga117]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're resorting to semantics even when you're contradicting yourself while its magic.

I'm resorting to the in-unvierse description. It's not magic. What's the problem?!

[Krunjar]

Shall we confine the discussion to Mass Effects Space Magic please. I think if we try and explain all space magic in the world of Sci Fi we might just cause a singularity that will swallow the earth.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

destroy is basically a giant EMP blast that kills all synthetics, which is just as stupid as the other endings, but it makes some sense

Yet everyone would have died if it was an EMP.

and if you read all of my comment I said it was just as dumb as the other endings

read before you replay

I just pointed out an error.

well, its not my error its Bioware's

Actually that was your own error.

your just annoying for no reason, you stay in your own little mess world where you words are facts

and if you find this an insult too bad I don't care

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet you're resorting to semantics even when you're contradicting yourself while its magic.

I'm resorting to the in-unvierse description. It's not magic. What's the problem?!

Yet Battlestar has a lot space magic just like Star Wars, Star Trek, and ME.

[daecath]

Eluril wrote...

How does it not fit the setting? I hear that stupidity all the time and it's just completely wrong. Because the word "singularity" was never mentioned suddenly it's irrelevant to a universe in which synthetics and organics struggle to survive together?

Does anyone who spouts off "technological singularity" as an explanation of the ending actually understand what it is?

It does not say anything about the relationship between organics and synthetics. It does not claim that synthetics will destroy everything. The only claim it makes is that there will be a point where technology will evolve to the point where we cannot predict what will happen. That's it. This fancy term to say "we can't predict the future". So please stop using "technological singularity" as an excuse for the catalyst's assertion that synthetics will destroy everything.

As for "synthetics and organics struggling to survive together", where was that in the game? I saw examples of malfunctioning synthetics. I saw examples of synthetics being oppressed by organics. I also saw examples of organics oppressing organics, of organics conflicting with each other. None of these were shown as any different, certainly not different enough to elevate it to the level of the main premise of the story.

So that's why it doesn't fit the setting. Because the geth/quarian conflict was never shown to be the geth's fault, and was never shown as any different than the krogan rebellions, or the first contact war, or the human/battarian conflict, or any other conflict between organic individuals or species. The geth were simply another race, like the others, and the conflict with them was just another conflict, like all the others. And then right at the end, they change all that to say that there is a fundamental difference between synthetics and organics, and that synthetics will someday destroy us all.

Synthesis is a direct result of that flawed premise. Since the premise that synthetics are inherently hostile to organics doesn't fit the universe, the solution of merging the two also doesn't fit.

Eluril wrote...
And the Reapers are perhaps the most blatant example to prove your idea that synthesis doesn't fit the universe totally wrong. The Reapers are a crude, brutal form of forced synthesis. The synthesis presented by the ending is a much more hopeful and "True form" wherein (if you're paying attention) synthetics develop a true individuality and emotion and there is greater diversity than ever. But instead of the parallel ideas in this we'd rather debate whether it makes everyone mindless zombies or how exactly DNA can be rewritten by a billion year advanced piece of technology.

EDI didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. Legion didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. The geth and quarians didn't need synthesis to achieve peace. Again, the premise of "synthetics vs. organics" doesn't fit the universe, and the direct solution to that of synthesis doesn't fit, in large part because it is from that nonsensical and non-sequitur premise.

[Ticonderoga117]

Krunjar wrote...

Shall we confine the discussion to Mass Effects Space Magic please. I think if we try and explain all space magic in the world of Sci Fi we might just cause a singularity that will swallow the earth.

Hard to do when people don't know what the term means and keep babbling "Shutup, you're wrong."
<_<

Blueprotoss wrote...
Yet Battlestar has a lot space magic just like Star Wars, Star Trek, and ME.

Like this lovely gem.
You keep using that word Blueprotoss, but I don't think you know what it means.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 09 juillet 2012 - 05:22 .

[Krunjar]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

Shall we confine the discussion to Mass Effects Space Magic please. I think if we try and explain all space magic in the world of Sci Fi we might just cause a singularity that will swallow the earth.

Hard to do when people don't know what the term means and keep babbling "Shutup, you're wrong."
<_<

Be strong! Think of the children!

[AresKeith]

Krunjar wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

Shall we confine the discussion to Mass Effects Space Magic please. I think if we try and explain all space magic in the world of Sci Fi we might just cause a singularity that will swallow the earth.

Hard to do when people don't know what the term means and keep babbling "Shutup, you're wrong."
<_<

Be strong! Think of the children!

the little blue children?

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

your just annoying for no reason, you stay in your own little mess world where you words are facts

and if you find this an insult too bad I don't care

Yet I'm the one using facts between the two of us especially when you said that Destroy used an EMP.

[Krunjar]

Possibly ...

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

your just annoying for no reason, you stay in your own little mess world where you words are facts

and if you find this an insult too bad I don't care

Yet I'm the one using facts between the two of us especially when you said that Destroy used an EMP.

[Blueprotoss]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Hard to do when people don't know what the term means and keep babbling "Shutup, you're wrong."
<_<


Like this lovely gem.
You keep using that word Blueprotoss, but I don't think you know what it means.

Oh the irony especially when sci-fi is filled to the brim with space magic.

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

your just annoying for no reason, you stay in your own little mess world where you words are facts

and if you find this an insult too bad I don't care

Yet I'm the one using facts between the two of us especially when you said that Destroy used an EMP.

More space magic I see!

[Heeden]

daecath wrote...

Synthesis is a direct result of that flawed premise. Since the premise that synthetics are inherently hostile to organics doesn't fit the universe, the solution of merging the two also doesn't fit.

The problem isn't that synthetics are inherently hostile to organics, the problem is organics are inherently hostile to synthetics - the Council has laws in place banning them, the Quarians panicked when they realised the Geth were gaining sentience, the rogue AI on the Citadel was so sure of this it commited suicide rather than be caught. Shepard is an incredibly rare exception to this rule and it is he who fosters both tolerance of synthetics from organics and understanding of organics in synthetics.

[Heeden]

daecath wrote...

EDI didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. Legion didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. The geth and quarians didn't need synthesis to achieve peace.

No, but they did need Shepard, and Synthesis magically sprays Shepard-energy all over the galaxy.

[AresKeith]

Heeden wrote...

daecath wrote...

EDI didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. Legion didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. The geth and quarians didn't need synthesis to achieve peace.

No, but they did need Shepard, and Synthesis magically sprays Shepard-energy all over the galaxy.

which is one of the reasons why we hate it

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Heeden wrote...

daecath wrote...

EDI didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. Legion didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. The geth and quarians didn't need synthesis to achieve peace.

No, but they did need Shepard, and Synthesis magically sprays Shepard-energy all over the galaxy.

which is one of the reasons why we hate it

You can classify Shepard as magic based on the Prothean device and Project Lazaruzrus, which that much of a stretch with Synthesis.

[Heeden]

AresKeith wrote...

Heeden wrote...

daecath wrote...

EDI didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. Legion didn't need synthesis to be a unique individual. The geth and quarians didn't need synthesis to achieve peace.

No, but they did need Shepard, and Synthesis magically sprays Shepard-energy all over the galaxy.

which is one of the reasons why we hate it

I have much bigger issues with eezo, which feels like they started off with an idea from a different sci-fi series then broke it to allow space-wizards. I wouldn't say I hated it though, Mass Effect is probably one of the best series of games I've ever played.

[RadicalDisconnect]

daecath wrote...

The problem with Synthesis is that there is no precedent for it, and no explanation for it. You need one or the other to have an effective plot element, particularly if you are going to introduce it at the very end of your story. There's no discussion of synthetic DNA, no discovery of a technology that can generate matter from energy, no replicators or teleporters. It comes from nothing. That is what makes it space magic. And in a story like this, there is only a certain amount of that that is reasonable before the story breaks down. The reaper reproduction method is a bit space-magicy, but it works because it's reasonable. They break us down into our component parts and reassemble those parts into a reaper. That's plausible. An energy wave that can spontaneously generate matter, rewrite DNA, and/or alter metobolic functions is entirely unplausible.

However, I would be willing to accept that at some point in the past, someone had this technology and the crucible plans contained the technology to make it work, if it weren't for all the other crimes that the ending committed. The catalyst's premise of synthetics vs. organics isn't supported anywhere else in the story. The Illusive Man's ability to control the physical movements of Anderson and Shepard isn't supported anywhere else in the story. The idea that lasting peace is only attainable if everyone is the same in some way is abhorrant and goes against the rest of the story. The idea that Shepard would commit suicide, with no proof of the catalyst's claims, no guarantee that any of this will do what the catalyst claims, on the basis of a premise that is contradicted by everything that Shepard has seen, and on the word of the leader of an enemy that routinely uses manipulation to achieve their goals - that's the worst crime of the ending. So no, Synthesis gets no slack. It is space magic, and it doesn't belong in this story, no matter how many puppies and rainbows they try to shove in to get us to like it.

You nailed why I dislike synthesis. None of that "brainwash, slavery, reaperization" slogan bull****.

In my opinion, synthesis simply doesn't belong in the ME universe or this genre.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 09 juillet 2012 - 05:41 .