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If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is....


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#401
Rinji the Bearded

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Blueprotoss wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

There is absolutely no foreshadowing of magic robot DNA.

So there was no Saren, Project Overlord, the Collectors, or  Reapers then.


All once organic beings that were altered to become less organic, not the other way around.

Yet you just described Synthesis.


Synthesis suggests that beings like EDI and the Geth can become organic.  They have absolutely no organic framework (DNA), so binding Shepard's DNA to them would be impossible because there was nothing there to begin with.

#402
Ticonderoga117

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Heeden wrote...
The matrix of all organic life is more likely to be some sort of magic that the Asari, Protheans and Thorian use for communication. Things are contained and arranged by a matrix, so the matrix must be something super-personal, not sub-cellular.


Hnnnnnnnnngggg.....

So... The Force... In Mass Effect.

No. No no no no no.

#403
Heeden

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Hnnnnnnnnngggg.....

So... The Force... In Mass Effect.

No. No no no no no.


At least they gave us magic through unobtainium and green energy rather than midichlorians, that has to count for something right?

#404
Ticonderoga117

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memorysquid wrote...
Pre-EC it wasn't plain, but in the EC do they even say that machines get retrofitted with roboDNA?  I thought they just say that now AI will understand organics.


Well everything still glows the same, creepy, green.
Sooooo yeah, I don't think it's there for the hell of it.

#405
Guest_Rubios_*

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RinjiRenee wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

There is absolutely no foreshadowing of magic robot DNA.

So there was no Saren, Project Overlord, the Collectors, or  Reapers then.


All once organic beings that were altered to become less organic, not the other way around.


Legion sacrificing himself (read: running into the beam) to give the Geth a higher level of understanding, individuality and free will was organics altered to be less organic.

EDI trying to understand what love is and finding motivations to fight the reapers is another case of organics becoming less organic too.

Modifié par Rubios, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:53 .


#406
Ticonderoga117

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Heeden wrote...
At least they gave us magic through unobtainium and green energy rather than midichlorians, that has to count for something right?


If that's truly what they meant, no.
I sincerely hope that isn't.

#407
Blueprotoss

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Heeden wrote...
At least they gave us magic through unobtainium and green energy rather than midichlorians, that has to count for something right?


If that's truly what they meant, no.
I sincerely hope that isn't.

Element Zero is the equivalent of midiclorians in ME.

#408
Rinji the Bearded

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Rubios wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

There is absolutely no foreshadowing of magic robot DNA.

So there was no Saren, Project Overlord, the Collectors, or  Reapers then.


All once organic beings that were altered to become less organic, not the other way around.


Legion sacrificing himself (read: running into the beam) to give the Geth a higher level of understanding, individuality and free will was organics altered to be less organic.

EDI trying to understand what love is and the motivations to fight the reapers is another case of organics becoming less organic too.


You are describing intangible things and ideas, not what makes organic life organic.   It'd be all fine and dandy if the synthesis ending merely told the geth and all other synthetic life what it meant to be organic, but somehow altering their synthetic structures that lacked a framework to work upon in the first place, some magical evolution, had to be added in there as well.

And let's not all forget that EDI told Shepard herself that he/she was at his/her core still organic, despite having synthetic parts.  So Synthesis is also a silly retcon.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:56 .


#409
savionen

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Blueprotoss wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Heeden wrote...
At least they gave us magic through unobtainium and green energy rather than midichlorians, that has to count for something right?


If that's truly what they meant, no.
I sincerely hope that isn't.

Element Zero is the equivalent of midiclorians in ME.


Except Element Zero is the basis of the entire trilogy, midiclorians destroys the basis of the entire franchise.

#410
Krunjar

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savionen wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Heeden wrote...
At least they gave us magic through unobtainium and green energy rather than midichlorians, that has to count for something right?


If that's truly what they meant, no.
I sincerely hope that isn't.

Element Zero is the equivalent of midiclorians in ME.


Except Element Zero is the basis of the entire trilogy, midiclorians destroys the basis of the entire franchise.


And yet before midiclorians the Force was THE textbook example of space magic. So from that we can infer that exposition isn't always a good idea or even necessary.

#411
AresKeith

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Blueprotoss wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

There is absolutely no foreshadowing of magic robot DNA.

So there was no Saren, Project Overlord, the Collectors, or  Reapers then.


All once organic beings that were altered to become less organic, not the other way around.

Yet you just described Synthesis.


they weren't turned by a green wave in a matter of seconds, they were turned over time, months or years

#412
Ticonderoga117

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Blueprotoss wrote...
Element Zero is the equivalent of midiclorians in ME.


Except Mass Effect explains how eezo does what it does, while Star Wars says that Midichlorians does what it does because "Magic!".

Codex on Element Zero...
Element Zero (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo', is a rare material that, when subjected to an electrical current, releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field,
raising or lowering the mass of all objects within that field. A
positive current increases mass, a negative current decreases it. This
'mass effect' is used in countless ways, from generating artificial
gravity to manufacturing high-strength construction materials. It is
most prominently used to enable faster-than-light space travel without causing time dilation. When humans discovered the Prothean ruins on Mars,
they also discovered refined element zero that the Protheans had left
behind. It enabled research into FTL ship drives before the Charon Relay was discovered.

Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet,
is affected by the energy of a star going supernova. The material is
common in the asteroid debris that orbits neutron stars and pulsars.
These are dangerous places to mine, requiring extensive use of robotics,
telepresence, and shielding to survive the intense radiation from the
dead star. Only a few major corporations
can afford the set-up costs required to work these primary sources.
Some planets have small eezo deposits or coalesced around a larger
deposit during their formation. While these secondary sources are safer
to mine, the yield from the ore is not as large. There are rumours that
the Nemean Abyss has particularly rich eezo deposits.
Dust-form element zero is often released after engine accidents.
It is used by many species to influence or strengthen the presence of biotics. If a child is exposed to dust-form element zero in utero, due to its mutagenic
effects, there is a small chance they can develop eezo nodules
throughout their nervous system that react to electrical stimuli from
the brain. This allows them to use biotic abilities, but many exposures
have no effect, or result in terminal cancer. There is some question
about just how 'accidental' some of those initial exposures were, after
the link between eezo and biotics was established.
Element zero forms the basis of many advanced medicines throughout Citadel space. The biotic drug 'red sand'
allegedly has element zero as its base — according to urban legend, it
was created by criminal triads on Mars from the eezo samples recovered
there. The SSV Normandy's massive Tantalus drive core cost 120 billion credits because of the amount of element zero needed to power the stealth system.


Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:03 .


#413
memorysquid

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AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet you just described Synthesis.


they weren't turned by a green wave in a matter of seconds, they were turned over time, months or years


They didn't have the incredible power of the Catalyst!  Seriously, carping over the slightly more fantastic nature of synthesis vs. the other plot holes and hand waving explanations is just so picayune.

#414
Blueprotoss

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Element Zero is the equivalent of midiclorians in ME.


Except Mass Effect explains how eezo does what it does, while Star Wars says that Midichlorians does what it does because "Magic!".

Yet the Force and Biotic power are both space magic.

#415
memorysquid

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Element Zero is the equivalent of midiclorians in ME.


Except Mass Effect explains how eezo does what it does, while Star Wars says that Midichlorians does what it does because "Magic!".


They write a bunch of words for eezo, sure.  So what?  How does that make it believable?  It does things that are literally impossible, from violating general relativity to making people psychic.  It's all freaking space magic!  If it were grounded in reality, they'd be calling this speculative fiction.

#416
Rinji the Bearded

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Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Element Zero is the equivalent of midiclorians in ME.


Except Mass Effect explains how eezo does what it does, while Star Wars says that Midichlorians does what it does because "Magic!".

Codex on Element Zero...
Element Zero (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo', is a rare material that, when subjected to an electrical current, releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field,
raising or lowering the mass of all objects within that field. A
positive current increases mass, a negative current decreases it. This
'mass effect' is used in countless ways, from generating artificial
gravity to manufacturing high-strength construction materials. It is
most prominently used to enable faster-than-light space travel without causing time dilation. When humans discovered the Prothean ruins on Mars,
they also discovered refined element zero that the Protheans had left
behind. It enabled research into FTL ship drives before the Charon Relay was discovered.

Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet,
is affected by the energy of a star going supernova. The material is
common in the asteroid debris that orbits neutron stars and pulsars.
These are dangerous places to mine, requiring extensive use of robotics,
telepresence, and shielding to survive the intense radiation from the
dead star. Only a few major corporations
can afford the set-up costs required to work these primary sources.
Some planets have small eezo deposits or coalesced around a larger
deposit during their formation. While these secondary sources are safer
to mine, the yield from the ore is not as large. There are rumours that
the Nemean Abyss has particularly rich eezo deposits.
Dust-form element zero is often released after engine accidents.
It is used by many species to influence or strengthen the presence of biotics. If a child is exposed to dust-form element zero in utero, due to its mutagenic
effects, there is a small chance they can develop eezo nodules
throughout their nervous system that react to electrical stimuli from
the brain. This allows them to use biotic abilities, but many exposures
have no effect, or result in terminal cancer. There is some question
about just how 'accidental' some of those initial exposures were, after
the link between eezo and biotics was established.
Element zero forms the basis of many advanced medicines throughout Citadel space. The biotic drug 'red sand'
allegedly has element zero as its base — according to urban legend, it
was created by criminal triads on Mars from the eezo samples recovered
there. The SSV Normandy's massive Tantalus drive core cost 120 billion credits because of the amount of element zero needed to power the stealth system.




I think we can all safely conclude that Star Wars is a Fantasy, more like Lord of the Rings and etc than actual Sci-Fi.  Mass Effect leans more towards being Sci-Fi... until the last five minutes of the game.

#417
Pottumuusi

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Synthesis is space magic because, unlike all the things you listed, the writers pulled it out of their asses in the last five minutes of the story.

#418
Krunjar

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Codex on Element Zero...
Element Zero (Atomic Number 0, Chemical Symbol Ez), also known as 'eezo', is a rare material that, when subjected to an electrical current, releases dark energy which can be manipulated into a mass effect field,

HOW?

raising or lowering the mass of all objects within that field. A
positive current increases mass, a negative current decreases it.

WHY?

This 'mass effect' is used in countless ways, from generating artificial
gravity to manufacturing high-strength construction materials. It is
most prominently used to enable faster-than-light space travel without causing time dilation. When humans discovered the Prothean ruins on Mars,
they also discovered refined element zero that the Protheans had left
behind. It enabled research into FTL ship drives before the Charon Relay was discovered.

Eezo is generated when solid matter, such as a planet,
is affected by the energy of a star going supernova.

HOW AND WHY?

The material is
common in the asteroid debris that orbits neutron stars and pulsars.
These are dangerous places to mine, requiring extensive use of robotics,
telepresence, and shielding to survive the intense radiation from the
dead star. Only a few major corporations
can afford the set-up costs required to work these primary sources.
Some planets have small eezo deposits or coalesced around a larger
deposit during their formation. While these secondary sources are safer
to mine, the yield from the ore is not as large. There are rumours that
the Nemean Abyss has particularly rich eezo deposits.
Dust-form element zero is often released after engine accidents.
It is used by many species to influence or strengthen the presence of biotics. If a child is exposed to dust-form element zero in utero, due to its mutagenic
effects, there is a small chance they can develop eezo nodules
throughout their nervous system that react to electrical stimuli from
the brain. This allows them to use biotic abilities, but many exposures
have no effect, or result in terminal cancer. There is some question
about just how 'accidental' some of those initial exposures were, after
the link between eezo and biotics was established.
Element zero forms the basis of many advanced medicines throughout Citadel space. The biotic drug 'red sand'
allegedly has element zero as its base — according to urban legend, it
was created by criminal triads on Mars from the eezo samples recovered
there. The SSV Normandy's massive Tantalus drive core cost 120 billion credits because of the amount of element zero needed to power the stealth system.

                            -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just because it has a codex entry dousn't mean it isn't space magic.

#419
Krunjar

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Pottumuusi wrote...

Synthesis is space magic because, unlike all the things you listed, the writers pulled it out of their asses in the last five minutes of the story.


Yeah last minute plot twist .. never heard of that working.

#420
Blueprotoss

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RinjiRenee wrote...

I think we can all safely conclude that Star Wars is a Fantasy, more like Lord of the Rings and etc than actual Sci-Fi.  Mass Effect leans more towards being Sci-Fi... until the last five minutes of the game.

If thats the case then Star Trek is also fantasy then.  Btw ME has followed its own rules to the end especially when most of its universe is magic.

#421
Blueprotoss

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Pottumuusi wrote...

Synthesis is space magic because, unlike all the things you listed, the writers pulled it out of their asses in the last five minutes of the story.

Thats a huge straw-mann.

Krunjar wrote...

Yeah last minute plot twist .. never heard of that working. 

I think this is what happened here. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:17 .


#422
Rinji the Bearded

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Blueprotoss wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

I think we can all safely conclude that Star Wars is a Fantasy, more like Lord of the Rings and etc than actual Sci-Fi.  Mass Effect leans more towards being Sci-Fi... until the last five minutes of the game.

If thats the case then Star Trek is also fantasy then.  Btw ME has followed its own rules to the end especially when most of its universe is magic.


Star Trek applies their science as fact.  Star Wars, on the other hand, counts on an invisible, magical force that was only slightly explained later on.  As far as I know, they never explained why mitichlorians generated what everyone else perceives as the force, and why its so heavily influenced by "lightside" and "darkside," which are both intangible ideas of morality.  You also had things like immaculate conception and ~*prophecy*~  in Star Wars, which is once again supposed to be explained by this magical unseen Force..

On the other hand, Star Trek's use of things like dilithium crystals is applied to their scientific fact, much like Eezo.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 09 juillet 2012 - 04:24 .


#423
Thore2k10

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Blueprotoss wrote...

Pottumuusi wrote...

Synthesis is space magic because, unlike all the things you listed, the writers pulled it out of their asses in the last five minutes of the story.

Thats a huge straw-mann.

Krunjar wrote...

Yeah last minute plot twist .. never heard of that working. 

I think this is what happened here. 


uhm, nope... didnt work

#424
CaliGuy033

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OP is spot on. I love how the best response is, "The other stuff has a few lines in the Codex explaining it."

If somebody wrote up an explanation for Synthesis in a few lines, people would laugh it off. Yet, they're totally okay with a few lines explaining how we can magically increase or decrease the mass of an object with this cool nifty element we discovered.

#425
Ryzaki

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Pottumuusi wrote...

Synthesis is space magic because, unlike all the things you listed, the writers pulled it out of their asses in the last five minutes of the story.


Exactly.

Others aren't much better but since they're introduced so early on you have ample time to just roll with it.