661 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Sarcasm won't work.

I'm glad you caught that, seems to be the only thing you can see

Yet you forget most of your comments are petty insults, which is pretty easy to notice.

[Blueprotoss]

Ownedbacon wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet all of that is still magic especially most science fiction will fall under it whether its Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galatica, or the Matrix.

Magic is present but is it believable in the established universe rules, but the way synthesis occurs in the end of Mass Effect 3 goes beyond what we have been shown and what is possible in the Mass Effect universe. Like I said it would be as out of place as if time travel had been introduced in the conclusion of the game.

Yet you forget that Saren introduced Synthesis as a theme in ME1, which was part of the rules.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is... husk synthesis. Which we've found acceptable within our "suspension of disbelief" for a long while now.


You don't see people asking to explain how impaling a dude on a giant spike makes any sense. Especially if they were paying any attention at Sanctuary.

[Wayning_Star]

Magic is present but is it believable in the established universe rules, but the way synthesis occurs in the end of Mass Effect 3 goes beyond what we have been shown and what is possible in the Mass Effect universe. Like I said it would be as out of place as if time travel had been introduced in the conclusion of the game.
[/quote]

My only question, why its the most important issue with MEU,the the sci fi puritism? Like an imparative part of the game has become deconstruction? The idea of a mass generated cosmic beam issued from a massive ship it took the entire universe to just assemble and power up. I found it harder to believe anyone could hide it, rather than it could affect matter at the sub atomic(maybe even smaller) structure? Sure the green beam was something new, but everything IN the MEU is new to us, er..the MEU onlookers... (I digress, I thought I saw a reaper the other day driving a cop car at high speed,, but I'm no sure..it all happened so long ago and so fast..)

[Ownedbacon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ownedbacon wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet all of that is still magic especially most science fiction will fall under it whether its Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar Galatica, or the Matrix.

Magic is present but is it believable in the established universe rules, but the way synthesis occurs in the end of Mass Effect 3 goes beyond what we have been shown and what is possible in the Mass Effect universe. Like I said it would be as out of place as if time travel had been introduced in the conclusion of the game.

Yet you forget that Saren introduced Synthesis as a theme in ME1, which was part of the rules.

I'm talking about the way it is implemented, the way it occurs. Did you even read what I wrote?

Shepard jumping into beam and it dispersing throughout the universe everyone suddenly changed is implausible in the rules of the universe.

Plus Saren was about servitude. He was more machine now than organic "twisted and evil" ... he was just talking up serving the Reapers proving worth not living in harmony.


Commander Shepard: Together we can stop Sovereign. We don't have to submit to the Reapers. We can beat them!
Saren Arterius:
I no longer believe that Shepard. The visions cannot be denied. The Reapers are too powerful. The only hope of survival is to join with them. Sovereign is a machine. It thinks like a machine. If I can prove my value, I become a resource, worth maintaining. There is no other logical conclusion.
Commander Shepard: You were a Spectre. You swore to protect the galaxy. Then you broke that vow to save yourself.
Saren Arterius:
I'm not doing this for myself. Don't you see, Sovereign will succeed. It is inevitable. My way is the only way any of us will survive. I'm forging an alliance between us and the Reapers, between organics and machines, and in doing so, I will save more lives than have ever existed. But you would undo my work. You would doom our entire civilization to complete annihilation, and for that, you must die.


Saren Arterius: Is submission not preferable to extinction?

Modifié par Ownedbacon, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:26 .

[Steve The Seal]

Most of those issues are explained in the codex. Those issues can be accepted because they consist of a bit of science and a bit of science fiction.
The major problem I have with synthesis is this:
"I shoot you with a beam, now you're a cyborg!"
That is utter rubbish! Suddenly something comes from nothing. You may be right that in the future synthetics may be installed in organics, but that would require that you open up the body (as with shep in me2). Simply shooting someone with a beam to make them a cyborg is what a child playing around with his friends with come up with. It's idiotic, illogical and irrational.
It even bothers me more, when it's the other way around. How the heck do you make a robot part organic?! That in modern science would be considered highly imorale to do and a monstrousity, because it would require that you inserted organic body parts into the robot (the brain mostly).
That's why it's stupid. That's a part of why synthesis is disgusting (besides destroying diversity). That is why it's space-magic and does not belong in the ME series.

Modifié par Steve The Seal, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:24 .

[Ownedbacon]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is... husk synthesis. Which we've found acceptable within our "suspension of disbelief" for a long while now.


You don't see people asking to explain how impaling a dude on a giant spike makes any sense. Especially if they were paying any attention at Sanctuary.

Husks are synthetic-organic "zombies" created from the bodies of organic beings. When a human is captured, they are placed on impaling devices, huge spikes that Alliance marines have nicknamed "dragon's teeth". Over time the body's organs, skin and water content are converted into cybernetic materials; blood is changed to a sickly green fluid, and the body generates an electrical charge.

This happens over time not an instantaneous beam that transforms organics and synthetics.

Modifié par Ownedbacon, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:25 .

[Blueprotoss]

Ownedbacon wrote...

I'm talking about the way it is implemented, the way it occurs. Did you even read what I wrote?

Yet you're still contradicting yourself over semantics.

Ownedbacon wrote... 

Shepard jumping into beam and it dispersing throughout the universe everyone suddenly changed is implausible in the rules of the universe.

 Yet you're acting like Control and Destroy aren't magic.  Also we barely know anything about the Reapers.

Ownedbacon wrote... 
Plus Saren was about servitude. He was more machine now than organic "twisted and evil" ... he was just talking up serving the Reapers proving worth not living in harmony.

Saren was indoctrinated but he retained most of his free will.

Ownedbacon wrote... 

Saren Arterius: Is submission not preferable to extinction?

Synthesis is actually Survial and Evolution to him.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:28 .

[Blueprotoss]

Ownedbacon wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is... husk synthesis. Which we've found acceptable within our "suspension of disbelief" for a long while now.


You don't see people asking to explain how impaling a dude on a giant spike makes any sense. Especially if they were paying any attention at Sanctuary.

Husks are synthetic-organic "zombies" created from the bodies of organic beings. When a human is captured, they are placed on impaling devices, huge spikes that Alliance marines have nicknamed "dragon's teeth". Over time the body's organs, skin and water content are converted into cybernetic materials; blood is changed to a sickly green fluid, and the body generates an electrical charge.

This happens over time not an instantaneous beam that transforms organics and synthetics.

Yet zombies in general are magic based whether they're organic or synthetic.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:29 .

[Blueprotoss]

sorry double post

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:29 .

[Fuzzfro]

Control is also space magic then, how does Shepard turn into an AI and control the reapers?

Regarding the crucible, remember it was designed and built by many races and cycles far smarter then our current one. Many of which likely had technology that we would have no idea how it worked.
The crucible is no exception, for us the idea of synthesis seems impossible, but for the cycle that implemented that into the crucible, it was likely a valid scientific theory. The crucible and it's power are using technology that is beyond our understanding and is considered to be space magic just like the inner workings of a TV would be seen as Magic to a tribesman.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ownedbacon wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is... husk synthesis. Which we've found acceptable within our "suspension of disbelief" for a long while now.


You don't see people asking to explain how impaling a dude on a giant spike makes any sense. Especially if they were paying any attention at Sanctuary.

Husks are synthetic-organic "zombies" created from the bodies of organic beings. When a human is captured, they are placed on impaling devices, huge spikes that Alliance marines have nicknamed "dragon's teeth". Over time the body's organs, skin and water content are converted into cybernetic materials; blood is changed to a sickly green fluid, and the body generates an electrical charge.

This happens over time not an instantaneous beam that transforms organics and synthetics.

Yet zombies in general are magic based whether they're organic or synthetic.

Zombies can be magic or science Derp, stick to Mass Effect

[Grimwick]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is... husk synthesis. Which we've found acceptable within our "suspension of disbelief" for a long while now.

Incorrect. As many many synthesis supporters have claimed husk synthesis =/= synthesis.

In fact, there is an explanation as to how husk synthesis occurs and it is perfectly valid within the realms of the MEverse..

You don't see people asking to explain how impaling a dude on a giant spike makes any sense. Especially if they were paying any attention at Sanctuary.

Learn to read the codex and understand what was actually said on Sanctuary...

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ownedbacon wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is... husk synthesis. Which we've found acceptable within our "suspension of disbelief" for a long while now.


You don't see people asking to explain how impaling a dude on a giant spike makes any sense. Especially if they were paying any attention at Sanctuary.

Husks are synthetic-organic "zombies" created from the bodies of organic beings. When a human is captured, they are placed on impaling devices, huge spikes that Alliance marines have nicknamed "dragon's teeth". Over time the body's organs, skin and water content are converted into cybernetic materials; blood is changed to a sickly green fluid, and the body generates an electrical charge.

This happens over time not an instantaneous beam that transforms organics and synthetics.

Yet zombies in general are magic based whether they're organic or synthetic.

Zombies can be magic or science Derp, stick to Mass Effect

You should go to Haiti then and ME isn't real.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Ownedbacon wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

If Synthesis is "space magic" then so is... husk synthesis. Which we've found acceptable within our "suspension of disbelief" for a long while now.


You don't see people asking to explain how impaling a dude on a giant spike makes any sense. Especially if they were paying any attention at Sanctuary.

Husks are synthetic-organic "zombies" created from the bodies of organic beings. When a human is captured, they are placed on impaling devices, huge spikes that Alliance marines have nicknamed "dragon's teeth". Over time the body's organs, skin and water content are converted into cybernetic materials; blood is changed to a sickly green fluid, and the body generates an electrical charge.

This happens over time not an instantaneous beam that transforms organics and synthetics.

Yet zombies in general are magic based whether they're organic or synthetic.

Zombies can be magic or science Derp, stick to Mass Effect

You should go to Haiti then and ME isn't real.

I didn't say ME was real idiot and you think zombies are real

[Blueprotoss]

Grimwick wrote...

Incorrect. As many many synthesis supporters have claimed husk synthesis =/= synthesis.

Yet you can still say that about Control and Destroy. 

Grimwick wrote... 

In fact, there is an explanation as to how husk synthesis occurs and it is perfectly valid within the realms of the MEverse..

Learn to read the codex and understand what was actually said on Sanctuary...

Yet a codex entry doesn't  define what is or isn't magic even when most of what ME is magic based.

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

I didn't say ME was real idiot and you think zombies are real

Yet you're acting like ME is real and the process called Zombification is real in Haiti while its process based on mind control with special drugs and voodo.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 07:44 .

[Grimwick]

[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

[quote]Grimwick wrote...

Incorrect. As many many synthesis supporters have claimed husk synthesis =/= synthesis.
[/quote]Yet you can still say that about Control and Destroy. [/quote]

?????? Y U NO MAKE SENSE?

That line had nothing to do with control or destroy...

[quote][quote]Grimwick wrote... 

In fact, there is an explanation as to how husk synthesis occurs and it is perfectly valid within the realms of the MEverse..

Learn to read the codex and understand what was actually said on Sanctuary...[/quote]Yet a codex entry doesn't  define what is or isn't magic even when most of what ME is magic based.
[/quote][/quote]

No it isn't... it's completely science based. You're thinking of Science Fantasy, not Science Fiction.

The game makes a premise that eezo and it's properties exist. From extrapolating this premise they can explain how FTL drives work, loosely explain how biotics work. explain artificial gravity. the communication systems such as quantum entanglers are based on modern scientific principles. There is little magic, but when there is it is glaringly obvious to anyone who studies science.

It appears those who don't seem to understand the principles at work think everything is space magic...

[Wayning_Star]

Steve The Seal wrote...

Most of those issues are explained in the codex. Those issues can be accepted because they consist of a bit of science and a bit of science fiction.
The major problem I have with synthesis is this:
"I shoot you with a beam, now you're a cyborg!"
That is utter rubbish! Suddenly something comes from nothing. You may be right that in the future synthetics may be installed in organics, but that would require that you open up the body (as with shep in me2). Simply shooting someone with a beam to make them a cyborg is what a child playing around with his friends with come up with. It's idiotic, illogical and irrational.
It even bothers me more, when it's the other way around. How the heck do you make a robot part organic?! That in modern science would be considered highly imorale to do and a monstrousity, because it would require that you inserted organic body parts into the robot (the brain mostly).
That's why it's stupid. That's a part of why synthesis is disgusting (besides destroying diversity). That is why it's space-magic and does not belong in the ME series.

technically, from what I gathered from the game, they weren't 'instant cyborgs', or cyborgs at all like , say, star trek borg, who install parts of tech that control or don't, human hosts, Shepard could be considered "some" cyborg, and the Illusive man and many of his cohorts were cyborg. Miranda had specially seperated DNA additives, I think would mean she was a higher level cyborg, but  mostly human, or humanoid, depending on where the DNA came from. The  inclusion of the dreaded green beam, worked, apparently, on a lower level and infused genetically with organics and technically with synthetics. How this occurs whould probably best left up to the techs who mostly/more than we understand the actualy science around it. Did anyone notice Joker still hobbled off the normandy,even after he was zapped by the green beam.. apparently it doesn't cure all things organic, but merely doses the recipient with enough tech to say they're no longer completely organic.

PS. Forgot to mention Saren, who was mostly cyborg and totally under the control of his reaper boss.

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 09 juillet 2012 - 08:01 .

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss worlds worst troll

[Ownedbacon]

[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...

[quote]Ownedbacon wrote...

I'm talking about the way it is implemented, the way it occurs. Did you even read what I wrote?
[/quote]Yet you're still contradicting yourself over semantics.
[/quote]
I'm not arguing whether synthesis is possible with technological improvements over time rather that it occurs instantaneously from an energy beam.

[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...
[quote]Ownedbacon wrote... 

Shepard jumping into beam and it dispersing throughout the universe everyone suddenly changed is implausible in the rules of the universe.
[/quote] Yet you're acting like Control and Destroy aren't magic.  Also we barely know anything about the Reapers.[/quote]
Destroy I find more believable but it should have destroyed all technology not just synthetic life.
Control would have made more sense had Shepard been goofied or entered the consensus much like the he/she did with the Geth.


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...
[quote]Ownedbacon wrote... 
Plus Saren was about servitude. He was more machine now than organic "twisted and evil" ... he was just talking up serving the Reapers proving worth not living in harmony.
[/quote]Saren was indoctrinated but he retained most of his free will.[/quote]
Sovereign sensed Saren's hesitation about being manipulated made him take the implants "to strengthen his resolve" I don't think he had much free will other than what it took to break free and shoot himself.
Like Benezia said she would have been completely lost had she not created a haven in her mind. She felt as if she was pounding on glass watching herself commit horrendous acts. So how much free will did Saren really have?


[quote]Blueprotoss wrote...
[quote]Ownedbacon wrote... 

Saren Arterius: Is submission not preferable to extinction?[/quote]Synthesis is actually Survial and Evolution to him.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Saren says his doubts are gone he believes in Sovereign completely. Sovereign has even more control over him but he had hesitation until he was convinced to take the implants. Saren has little to no free will at this point I doubt this was what he believed.

Modifié par Ownedbacon, 09 juillet 2012 - 08:06 .

[Wayning_Star]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss worlds worst troll

awe crap, nobody EVER picks me for sports...

[The Night Mammoth]

Well sure.

But there's this thing that a lot of people have when experiencing fiction called the 'suspension of disbelief'.

Everything in that list is established early within the Mass Effect universe, using Mass Effect universe rules, and explained with the appropriate random pseudo-scientific jargon so it's all relatively believable. It all makes a certain about of your typical fictional sense.

Synthesis is the opposite of that.

[AresKeith]

Wayning_Star wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss worlds worst troll

awe crap, nobody EVER picks me for sports...

maybe one day lol 

[Wayning_Star]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Well sure.

But there's this thing that a lot of people have when experiencing fiction called the 'suspension of disbelief'.

Everything in that list is established early within the Mass Effect universe, using Mass Effect universe rules, and explained with the appropriate random pseudo-scientific jargon so it's all relatively believable. It all makes a certain about of your typical fictional sense.

Synthesis is the opposite of that.

some folks beleived that if Shepard chose the control option, it would be Okay, cause they could trust Shepard with the unlimited knowlege and power of the reaper compendium, or some could choose destroy, eventhough it's common knowlege that the cycle will continue because organics will undoubtly build machines with the ability of self awarness and then the wisdom to devine who their most common enemy may turn out to be,...But others have suspension of disbelief that reaper tech and Protheian programing could make possible a super weapon/contraption that could alter spacetime,hyper influence matter (everything is matter,even organics) at a sub molecular level, altering it? But everyone in the MEU would be foolish enough to build such a space magical device, because they have to..to make a choice forced upon them by a race of quasi sentient machines from the past?(they created...) Who'd of thunk?!?

(better think when you toss out that ole toaster oven..may be a reaper probe..we wouldn't know..)

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 09 juillet 2012 - 08:27 .