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[Hudathan]

Synthesis was explained, because it happens in the story. The same way there are a couple of pages in the virtual textbook of the universe i.e. the codex about other technologies that were around for longer periods during the time that the story took place, but it's more or less the same thing. You either tell or show something, and the audience either goes along with it or don't.

The Crucible was an unknown piece of advanced technology, we didn't know what it would do until the very end when we get to turn it on. We turned it on and found out what it does, that makes it as plausible as any other piece of fictional technology in the universe. Debating what is 'possible' in a sci-fi story is the biggest waste of time I've ever seen.

[Memnon]

Archereon wrote...

Okay, I'm going to join this argument by saying this: It's not whether or not Synthesis is space magic that's important, it's whether Synthesis makes any sense in the context of the Mass Effect universe as we know it. Assuming that because Space Magic A exists, Space Magic B (Synthesis) must be plausible is a completely false dichotomy, and one which falls apart in the face of the concept of Internal consistency, since it mostly depends on semantics.

You're basically making the same argument a lot of us are, but it's falling on deaf ears. This entire premise if (x) is space magic, then (y) is space magic is one huge straw man

[Eluril]

Legion states unequivocally that the Reapers upload organic minds through the process of creating a Reaper. This is heavy evidence in favor of the idea that synthesis is possible in the ME universe especially considering the advanced post-Reaper technology that is the Crucible.



Further, If you believe synthesis was introduced poorly or wasn't given enough explanation or is bad writing, then say that. Don't bash it as "space magic" and assume everyone holds the same standards as you do with suspension of disbelief.

[Memnon]

Eluril wrote...


Further, If you believe synthesis was introduced poorly or wasn't given enough explanation or is bad writing, then say that. Don't bash it as "space magic" and assume everyone holds the same standards as you do with suspension of disbelief.

Page 15

Stornskar wrote...

The issue is not what is and what isn't space magic, what is and what isn't based on science, knowledge, etc. The issue is working within the framework that the story establishes. In Star Wars, you have light sabres and the force - definitely space magic, but we all accept it because it is fun and they stay mostly consistent within the constraints that they establish. That's why people were in an uproar over "midichlorians." Synthesis is like Lucas ending RotJ by having ghost Yoda forcing Luke to sacrifice himself by jumping into the middle of the Death Star, which then releases an energy beam which causes all midichlorains to die, rendering everyone normal.

Page 18

Stornskar wrote...
It's ironic that you mention straw man, because that's what this entire discussion is. For the most part, people are upset that Synthesis is not congruent with the rules established in the series, not that it's 'space magic.' Any fantasy and science fiction can establish its own set of rules (Vampires burst into flames in sunlight?) and as long as they stick to those rules, people can suspend their disbeleif. If a fantasy/sci fi setting establishes rules, then pulls something completely out of nowhere which doesn't have anything to do with the rules ... that is where the disconnect is. Seriously, why are folks unable to get this?

Page 25

Stornskar wrote...

Again, claiming that the "space magic" is what bothers people about Synthesis is a straw man argument. What bothers people - myself included - is that it is completely out of line with the rules established by the setting. From the opening scrawl of ME1, you learn the eezo is a new 'space magicky' element which behaves a special way when a current is applied to it. We learn how it applies to biotics, how it allows FTL travel, anti-gravity, etc. At no point when reading this did I feel like my suspension of disbelief was wrenched out of whack - I accepted it because it was a new, interesting way of introducing a new science fiction setting. I bought it and I loved it. Synthesis was so far out of nowhere that it made many people just blink in amazement - they didn't even try to tie it in with eezo, or mass effect fields, or anything. You're told that you toss yourself into a big beam, your organic matter is decomposed and distributed to the galaxy and bam! Green people. This is a huge disconnect, and it does break the suspension of disbelief ...

And that's just mine, there have been many others - can we stop now?

Modifié par Stornskar, 12 juillet 2012 - 01:59 .

[AresKeith]

Synthesis itself may not be Space magic, but how they did it at the end of the game was space magic, bcause a giant green energy wave isn't Sci-fi at all

[Krunjar]

AresKeith wrote...

Synthesis itself may not be Space magic, but how they did it at the end of the game was space magic, bcause a giant green energy wave isn't Sci-fi at all

Sorry .. but it is. It's just more on the Fi than Sci side of Sci-Fi for your taste.

When will people learn that their opinion is not fact. You can argue whatever you like. But making blanket statements and refusing to accept the other sides position on an entireley subjective matter can only result in a sh*tstorm. Please just stop. It's all been said. Theres no need for more complaining. You aren't gonna get any more endings. So just accept the ones you have or chuck youre copies of Me in the bin. None of us who enjoy the game will care.

[Tokalla]

Krunjar wrote...

When will people learn that their opinion is not fact. You can argue whatever you like. But making blanket statements and refusing to accept the other sides position on an entireley subjective matter can only result in a sh*tstorm. Please just stop. It's all been said. Theres no need for more complaining. You aren't gonna get any more endings. So just accept the ones you have or chuck youre copies of Me in the bin. None of us who enjoy the game will care.

Perhaps you should consider your own advice.  This thread's topic is entirely subjective.  The definition of "space magic" is also subjective.  If you are sick of dealing with people who disagree with your subjective view, then simply stop reading and responding to this thread.  Personally, I see the creation of this thread as pointless due to the more recent responses posted by the creator.  All I see is a thread created to "throw down the gauntlet" at anyone with a dissenting opinion, and then remarks about being sick of seeing and dealing with those of that dissenting opinion.  

I'd also like to point out that "fiction" and "magic" are very different terms.  It seems many here have been unable to see the difference, or are evaluating  what qualifies as "magic" based exclusively on what we understand of real world science.  The natural laws of the fictional universe are what generally should matter when defining content as magic or science, not how similar it is to our scientific understanding.

[Tokalla]

Eluril wrote...

Further, If you believe synthesis was introduced poorly or wasn't given enough explanation or is bad writing, then say that. Don't bash it as "space magic" and assume everyone holds the same standards as you do with suspension of disbelief.

The use of the term "space magic" carries enough implications that you should already know the individual is stating that whatever is being discussed violated their suspension of disbelief, as the term "magic" itself means supernatural influence would be present (unless a discussion of stage magicians is going on).  Your dislike for the term doesn't not mean that it isn't being used correctly by those who do feel that whatever element/ability/device/etc violated their suspension of disbelief.  If someone feels that something like synthesis is incongruent with the rest of the ME universe due to it violating the natural laws they perceive existing, then the term "magic" is entirely accurate.  I don't feel that others should be required to use such extensive additional explanation when there is a simple phrase that expresses the same meaning just as well.  Nor do I believe you warrant sufficient special treatment for anyone to stop using an accurate term that you find annoying, especially after making a thread to argue that your subjective views of what violate the natural laws of the ME universe are the only correct ones.

Please also note that thematic foreshadowing is very different than showing an expansion of the natural laws governing the fictional universe.

[Facemelter91]

You know Blueprotoss, there is no winning with you, the very world you live in is magic apparently. The creation of the universe = magic. Electricity = magic. Particle physics = magic. Gravity = magic. You being alive = magic. Its been made painfully obvious that I have not been conversing with an intellectual but more than likely some one still in middle school or the early years of high school. Or just the worst kind of troll.  Id advise you to either to stop trolling, finish up grade school, or go to the My Little Pony boards. I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms seeing how our entire existence is magic according to you.

I'm done talking with you, you are not worth my time or the time I've already spent on you. Until you manage to come up with something marginally intelligent to say I can only hope you will be ignored.

Let me predict your next post:

- "Insulting me wont help you..."

- "Insulting people is useless"

- something having to do with a strawman

- sentance with the word "contridiction" in it

- One sentance response.

PS: The Internet is a harsh and cruel place. Grow a thicker skin and brush off the insults or don't and keep feeding.

[Blueprotoss]

Facemelter91 wrote...

You know Blueprotoss, there is no winning with you, the very world you live in is magic apparently. The creation of the universe = magic. Electricity = magic. Particle physics = magic. Gravity = magic. You being alive = magic. Its been made painfully obvious that I have not been conversing with an intellectual but more than likely some one still in middle school or the early years of high school. Or just the worst kind of troll.  Id advise you to either to stop trolling, finish up grade school, or go to the My Little Pony boards. I'm sure they would welcome you with open arms seeing how our entire existence is magic according to you. 

I'm done talking with you, you are not worth my time or the time I've already spent on you. Until you manage to come up with something marginally intelligent to say I can only hope you will be ignored. 

Let me predict your next post:

 

- "Insulting me wont help you..."

- "Insulting people is useless"

- something having to do with a strawman

- sentance with the word "contridiction" in it

- One sentance response. 

PS: The Internet is a harsh and cruel place. Grow a thicker skin and brush off the insults or don't and keep feeding.

Pot calling the kettle black here and its still ironic based on how I have the thicker skin by staying on the high road based on intellect.  The world would be a better place withot the anti-intellectualism that comes with opinions.  Btw it seems like you don't know the definition of the word "trolling".

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:39 .

[Blueprotoss]

o Ventus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
I see that you haven't paid attention in your history classes.

I could say the same about you.

Yet you choose to ignore the facts based on your personal beliefs.

o Ventus wrote... 

This is false.

People living through plagues like the black death says otherwise.

 

o Ventus wrote... 

You are aware da Vinci was also a scientist, right? You sure he didn't come up with his ideas, y'know, scientifically?

Yet he didn't magically create designs for wings, tanks, and machine guns by himself.

 

o Ventus wrote... 

Says the person claiming fact for the opposing viewpoint. Hypocrisy or double standard?

 Pot calling the kettle black.

o Ventus wrote... 

Civilizations are not mythology. I'm trying very hard not to insult your intelligence.

Yet you didn't know that magic is heavily involved with such Civilizations like the Aztecs, Greeks, Chinese, Norse, and Apache.

o Ventus wrote... 

You're aware Scientology is the world's most elaborate Nigerian Prince scam, right?

Yet that belongs to  Mormons.

I see that you need to start a measuring contest based on how your insults don't work while its better to stay on topic.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:33 .

[Blueprotoss]

Stornskar wrote...

And that's just mine, there have been many others - can we stop now?

Yet other people still disagree with you.

Hudathan wrote...

Synthesis was explained, because it happens in the story. The same way there are a couple of pages in the virtual textbook of the universe i.e. the codex about other technologies that were around for longer periods during the time that the story took place, but it's more or less the same thing. You either tell or show something, and the audience either goes along with it or don't.

The Crucible was an unknown piece of advanced technology, we didn't know what it would do until the very end when we get to turn it on. We turned it on and found out what it does, that makes it as plausible as any other piece of fictional technology in the universe. Debating what is 'possible' in a sci-fi story is the biggest waste of time I've ever seen.

Agreed and I'm starting to notice that the lack of commonsense in some people is making this into a big waste of time. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 juillet 2012 - 01:44 .