661 réponses à ce sujet

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

In almost every SciFi setting, there is one constant 'give me' factor. Travel of some sort from one planet/system to another. This is about the only accepted 'space magic' addition to the story and expected as well. Though, with our advancing sciences, some modes of travel are no longer 'space magic' but science fact. Such as ion drives and ramscoops though still not practical.

As to the other items listed (within ME), they can be explained using some base science facts and the codex does a poor to passable job for the most part. And yes, double speak saying nothing but sounding good can suffice.

The trouble with Synthesis is that it requires too much 'suspension of belief' to pass the 'Okay, I can accept that' feeling in a scifi story. SciFantasy? Sure, it works, what doesn't but not in scifi as ME was supposed to be based in.

Look at synthesis for a moment.
A wave that spreads out. Comprised of only energy of a single freq. Without pulses, there can be only the single frequency which means NO intelligent data could be riding that wave. Basically, it can be an on/off switch and nothing more. For the wave to work, the receptors ,organics and synthetic, including grass, trees, or bosh'tets would need to already have the switch in place for the signal to interact with.
Not only would the receptors need to be able to detect the signal, the hardware to actually make the changes, at a molecular level and at near instantaneous speeds, must be present already in the individual organism.
This is an impossible situation. The myriad DNA makeups throughout the galaxy, just by the shear number, precludes any pre-existing switch and as such, makes the synthesis ending pure, unadulterated Space Magic, with no reason or right to be within a scifi story.

Yet Star Wars, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica don't follow that like most sci-fi.

because not everything is the same

Modifié par AresKeith, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:46 .

[Blueprotoss]

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

We can also add that we barely know anything about the Reapers and their creator, the "star child".

[Coachdongwiffle]

I literally know how everyone one of those first 7 work and can explain it if need be.

[o Ventus]

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

The Crucible is not the best example. The idea that you can group together thousands of the brightest minds in the galaxy and STILL not have any f**king idea of the thing you're building is downright insulting.

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

In almost every SciFi setting, there is one constant 'give me' factor. Travel of some sort from one planet/system to another. This is about the only accepted 'space magic' addition to the story and expected as well. Though, with our advancing sciences, some modes of travel are no longer 'space magic' but science fact. Such as ion drives and ramscoops though still not practical.

As to the other items listed (within ME), they can be explained using some base science facts and the codex does a poor to passable job for the most part. And yes, double speak saying nothing but sounding good can suffice.

The trouble with Synthesis is that it requires too much 'suspension of belief' to pass the 'Okay, I can accept that' feeling in a scifi story. SciFantasy? Sure, it works, what doesn't but not in scifi as ME was supposed to be based in.

Look at synthesis for a moment.
A wave that spreads out. Comprised of only energy of a single freq. Without pulses, there can be only the single frequency which means NO intelligent data could be riding that wave. Basically, it can be an on/off switch and nothing more. For the wave to work, the receptors ,organics and synthetic, including grass, trees, or bosh'tets would need to already have the switch in place for the signal to interact with.
Not only would the receptors need to be able to detect the signal, the hardware to actually make the changes, at a molecular level and at near instantaneous speeds, must be present already in the individual organism.
This is an impossible situation. The myriad DNA makeups throughout the galaxy, just by the shear number, precludes any pre-existing switch and as such, makes the synthesis ending pure, unadulterated Space Magic, with no reason or right to be within a scifi story.

Yet Star Wars, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica don't follow that like most sci-fi.

because not everything is the same

Yet you're complaining about ME being sci-fi.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

We can also add that we barely know anything about the Reapers and their creator, the "star child".

the star brat revealed that his creators is the first Reaper, so don't use that

[The Twilight God]

Eluril wrote...

If synthesis can be dismissed as "space magic" and not plausible in the ME universe then the following can also be labeled "Space magic"

Reaper indoctrination - How does that work?
Reaper liquification and mind absorbtion - How does that work?
Liara's gift and asari psionic abilities - How does that work?
The Citadel and the mass relays - How does that work?
Guns that shoot shaved pieces of metal  - How does that work?
Biotics - How does that work?
Shepard absorbing the "collective conscious" of the Protheans via the Thorian - How does that work?
The Prothean beacons - How does that work?

The Guardian of Forever in Star Trek - How does that work?
The Monoliths in 2001: a Space Odyssey - How does that work?
The Black Oil in Prometheus - How does that work?

The truth is science fiction only needs to be plausible to a point. I don't want people on a space ship poring over navigation charts, calculating geometry for hours or days on end. I want a setting and story that intrigues me, that gets me to think about man's relationship to technology and the future.

Mass Effect more than fulfilled this and Synthesis seems to me just as plausible an effect of the advanced technology of the Crucible as most if not all of the elements listed above.

So basically.... if it's science fiction it's high fantasy????

So if in the end of LotR Frodo could fly, shoot lasers out off his eyes and had wolverine claws for his Gollum fight that wouldn't be strange for the LotR setting because there is no real world explanation for Arwen using magic to make those water horses to drive off the Nazghoul? If Emperor Palpatine turned into a flock of bats like old school Dracula it would fit perfectly with the established lore/laws of the Star Wars franchise.
 
So anything should be possible in any work of fiction simply because it is fiction??? Because fiction has no established laws???

You deserve an insult to your intelligence, but I'm going to restrain myself. 

[Raelen]

o Ventus wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

The Crucible is not the best example. The idea that you can group together thousands of the brightest minds in the galaxy and STILL not have any f**king idea of the thing you're building is downright insulting.

You can't immediately understand everything you want just because you're smart and you try hard.  Perhaps maybe in time they would be able to make guesses or figure it out, but I doubt they really had the time to do it because the entire universe was on fire practically.  Besides...we have a HUGE amount of amazingly bright medical professionals in the world and obviously we know EVERYTHING about how the human brain works amirite?

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Calinstel wrote...

In almost every SciFi setting, there is one constant 'give me' factor. Travel of some sort from one planet/system to another. This is about the only accepted 'space magic' addition to the story and expected as well. Though, with our advancing sciences, some modes of travel are no longer 'space magic' but science fact. Such as ion drives and ramscoops though still not practical.

As to the other items listed (within ME), they can be explained using some base science facts and the codex does a poor to passable job for the most part. And yes, double speak saying nothing but sounding good can suffice.

The trouble with Synthesis is that it requires too much 'suspension of belief' to pass the 'Okay, I can accept that' feeling in a scifi story. SciFantasy? Sure, it works, what doesn't but not in scifi as ME was supposed to be based in.

Look at synthesis for a moment.
A wave that spreads out. Comprised of only energy of a single freq. Without pulses, there can be only the single frequency which means NO intelligent data could be riding that wave. Basically, it can be an on/off switch and nothing more. For the wave to work, the receptors ,organics and synthetic, including grass, trees, or bosh'tets would need to already have the switch in place for the signal to interact with.
Not only would the receptors need to be able to detect the signal, the hardware to actually make the changes, at a molecular level and at near instantaneous speeds, must be present already in the individual organism.
This is an impossible situation. The myriad DNA makeups throughout the galaxy, just by the shear number, precludes any pre-existing switch and as such, makes the synthesis ending pure, unadulterated Space Magic, with no reason or right to be within a scifi story.

Yet Star Wars, Star Trek, and Battlestar Galactica don't follow that like most sci-fi.

because not everything is the same

Yet you're complaining about ME being sci-fi.

where in your screwed up mind did I say I hate Sci-fi, I like Sci-fi but  Synthesis isn't Sci-fi

[Blueprotoss]

o Ventus wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

The Crucible is not the best example. The idea that you can group together thousands of the brightest minds in the galaxy and STILL not have any f**king idea of the thing you're building is downright insulting.

I'm sure you wouldn't complain about the Rebels destroying the Death Star, the end of Star Trek: the Next Generation, and robots getting pregnant by humans.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:51 .

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

We can also add that we barely know anything about the Reapers and their creator, the "star child".

the star brat revealed that his creators is the first Reaper, so don't use that

The "child" is the creator.

[o Ventus]

Raelen wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

The Crucible is not the best example. The idea that you can group together thousands of the brightest minds in the galaxy and STILL not have any f**king idea of the thing you're building is downright insulting.

You can't immediately understand everything you want just because you're smart and you try hard.  Perhaps maybe in time they would be able to make guesses or figure it out, but I doubt they really had the time to do it because the entire universe was on fire practically.  Besides...we have a HUGE amount of amazingly bright medical professionals in the world and obviously we know EVERYTHING about how the human brain works amirite?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that flint + tinder = fire. Similar to how it doesn't take an analytical genius to note the correlation between the 4 huge docking arms that are the exact same diameter as the presidium ring of the Citadel. Gee, I wonder what other object in the galaxy has those exact proportions?

Your example of the human brain is also a false one. The human brain wasn't constructed by other people using hand-me-down blueprints specifically designed to be easy to interpret.

[Blueprotoss]

AresKeith wrote...

where in your screwed up mind did I say I hate Sci-fi, I like Sci-fi but  Synthesis isn't Sci-fi

Your ME rage.

[What a Succulent Ass]

I know it's going to blow your mind when I say this, but what happens in other series is irrelevant when it comes to analysing Mass Effect.

[o Ventus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

The Crucible is not the best example. The idea that you can group together thousands of the brightest minds in the galaxy and STILL not have any f**king idea of the thing you're building is downright insulting.

I'm sure you wouldn't complain about the Rebels destroying the Death Star, the end of Star Trek: the Next Generation, and robots getting pregnant by humans.

I have no idea about any of the things you listed.

[Blueprotoss]

o Ventus wrote...

Raelen wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

The Crucible is not the best example. The idea that you can group together thousands of the brightest minds in the galaxy and STILL not have any f**king idea of the thing you're building is downright insulting.

You can't immediately understand everything you want just because you're smart and you try hard.  Perhaps maybe in time they would be able to make guesses or figure it out, but I doubt they really had the time to do it because the entire universe was on fire practically.  Besides...we have a HUGE amount of amazingly bright medical professionals in the world and obviously we know EVERYTHING about how the human brain works amirite?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that flint + tinder = fire. Similar to how it doesn't take an analytical genius to note the correlation between the 4 huge docking arms that are the exact same diameter as the presidium ring of the Citadel. Gee, I wonder what other object in the galaxy has those exact proportions?

Your example of the human brain is also a false one. The human brain wasn't constructed by other people using hand-me-down blueprints specifically designed to be easy to interpret.

I see a huge straw-mann here.

[Blueprotoss]

Random Jerkface wrote...

I know it's going to blow your mind when I say this, but what happens in other series is irrelevant when it comes to analysing Mass Effect.

Yet space magic is everywhere in sci-fi without complaints.

[AresKeith]

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

where in your screwed up mind did I say I hate Sci-fi, I like Sci-fi but  Synthesis isn't Sci-fi

Your ME rage.

so because I don't like a few things plus the endings in ME3, I hate ME?

[o Ventus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

I see a huge straw-mann here.

Of course you do, you don't know what a straw-man is.

[Blueprotoss]

o Ventus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Raelen wrote...

Ok, fine. I wont use a quote. I will simply say this then: They have a piece of technology that they were held by the hand and told how to build through blueprints. They state multiple times in the game that they have no idea how it works or even what it will do. It's advanced technology beyond their own comprehension much like the reapers themselves which are also not fully understood. Why then should it be fully explained besides the fact that you simply demand it to be?

I'm talking purely about what the crucible does...not about its timing or about the catalyst.

The Crucible is not the best example. The idea that you can group together thousands of the brightest minds in the galaxy and STILL not have any f**king idea of the thing you're building is downright insulting.

I'm sure you wouldn't complain about the Rebels destroying the Death Star, the end of Star Trek: the Next Generation, and robots getting pregnant by humans.

I have no idea about any of the things you listed.

space magic examples that people usually don't complain about .

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[o Ventus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

space magic examples.

Oh boy. That tells me everything I would need to know to form an accurate analysis then.

[Blueprotoss]

o Ventus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

space magic examples.

Oh boy. That tells me everything I would need to know to form an accurate analysis then.

Yet yo're being a hypocrite.

[o Ventus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Yet yo're being a hypocrite.

Just because you know how to spell the word "hypocrite" doesn't mean you're using it correctly.

[Blueprotoss]

o Ventus wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

I see a huge straw-mann here.

Of course you do, you don't know what a straw-man is.

Yet you keep on running away from the facts.