76 réponses à ce sujet

[DiebytheSword]

Rotgutso wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Synthetics have different means of creating emotions, but those emotions are no intrinsically less genuine.

Even so, it's incredibly shallow for Joker to suddenly like a computer simply because of her stupid sexbot.

He didn't suddenly like her, he has always loved the Normandy, but EDI provided a voice, personality and dare I say it, soul, for him to interact with on a whole new level.  I think the sex bot had less to do its curves, and more to do with its presence, a sudden way for him to interact with the Normandy in a far different fasion than he had before.  Can I say I would feel that way?  No, I can't, but I can see how Joker would.

[Rikketik]

Rotgutso wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...
Those emotions aren't real. They're just programs. They lack chemistry. EDI is an annoying **** who doesn't have any use whatsoever anyways. Who needs her when Joker's the best damn pilot in the galaxy?

I don't care what you think of EDI, but no use? Get your facts straight. Hell, even Shepard him/herself can admit that EDI saved his/her ass over a dozen times.

So did many other characters. Another character, like Legion, could easily do what EDI do, and infinitely better. Legion is 10 times the robot EDI can ever hope to be.

Are those other characters also useless, then? If saving your life multiple times isn't useful, I don't know what is. As for Legion: perhaps he could, but he didn't. If I had a smackload of talent I could have been the best football player in the world. Does that mean that Messi is an amateur? Of course not.

[Rotgutso]

Xilizhra wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Synthetics have different means of creating emotions, but those emotions are no intrinsically less genuine.

Even so, it's incredibly shallow for Joker to suddenly like a computer simply because of her stupid sexbot.

Did you play ME2? He was growing closer to her by the end there; actual sex would have been impossible, of course, but then it didn't have to be.

What I saw from ME2 is nothing more than friendship, and not even a close one. It's lame that his relationship with a toaster progressed more than a human being who has been with him since the first game.

It's all a moot point anyways. With EDI dead, why can't we have Joker romance?

Modifié par Rotgutso, 09 juillet 2012 - 08:18 .

[Rotgutso]

Rikketik wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...
Those emotions aren't real. They're just programs. They lack chemistry. EDI is an annoying **** who doesn't have any use whatsoever anyways. Who needs her when Joker's the best damn pilot in the galaxy?

I don't care what you think of EDI, but no use? Get your facts straight. Hell, even Shepard him/herself can admit that EDI saved his/her ass over a dozen times.

So did many other characters. Another character, like Legion, could easily do what EDI do, and infinitely better. Legion is 10 times the robot EDI can ever hope to be.

Are those other characters also useless, then? If saving your life multiple times isn't useful, I don't know what is. As for Legion: perhaps he could, but he didn't. If I had a smackload of talent I could have been the best football player in the world. Does that mean that Messi is an amateur? Of course not.

EDI is an amateur though. Even with a reaper IFF, she always blow my cover in reaper controlled systems. And she is completely replaceable. Legion would've done so much better than that stupid toaster. He also has much more personality.

Modifié par Rotgutso, 09 juillet 2012 - 08:42 .

[Rikketik]

Rotgutso wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...
Those emotions aren't real. They're just programs. They lack chemistry. EDI is an annoying **** who doesn't have any use whatsoever anyways. Who needs her when Joker's the best damn pilot in the galaxy?

I don't care what you think of EDI, but no use? Get your facts straight. Hell, even Shepard him/herself can admit that EDI saved his/her ass over a dozen times.

So did many other characters. Another character, like Legion, could easily do what EDI do, and infinitely better. Legion is 10 times the robot EDI can ever hope to be.

Are those other characters also useless, then? If saving your life multiple times isn't useful, I don't know what is. As for Legion: perhaps he could, but he didn't. If I had a smackload of talent I could have been the best football player in the world. Does that mean that Messi is an amateur? Of course not.

EDI is an amateur though. Even with a reaper IFF, she always blow my cover in reaper controlled systems. And she is completely replaceable. Legion would've done so much better than that stupid toaster. He also has much more personality.

Nah, you do that yourself. You can cruise around all day undetected if you want, but you're warned that scanning might alert the Reapers. You're the one giving the order to scan, so you're the one who blows the Normandy's cover.
She also isn't replaceable, in that she can't even die before the ending of ME3. Legion can die in ME2 and he's proven to be replaceable by a random "Geth VI" in ME3. In terms of personality they're pretty much even, although EDI gets more screentime and more character development.

[CrutchCricket]

Rotgutso wrote...

What I saw from ME2 is nothing more than friendship, and not even a close one. It's lame that his relationship with a toaster progressed more than a human being who has been with him since the first game.

It's all a moot point anyways. With EDI dead, why can't we have Joker romance?

The butthurt is strong with this one...

[Rotgutso]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

What I saw from ME2 is nothing more than friendship, and not even a close one. It's lame that his relationship with a toaster progressed more than a human being who has been with him since the first game.

It's all a moot point anyways. With EDI dead, why can't we have Joker romance?

The butthurt is strong with this one...

No, it's frustration. Joker's romance with an actual human being, Shepard, makes much more sense.

[Masha Potato]

hahahahaaa

[Ryzaki]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

What I saw from ME2 is nothing more than friendship, and not even a close one. It's lame that his relationship with a toaster progressed more than a human being who has been with him since the first game.

It's all a moot point anyways. With EDI dead, why can't we have Joker romance?

The butthurt is strong with this one...

To be fair I didn't see any romance developing between them either.

And for said romance to develop only after she gets a sex bot body strikes me as...incredibly shallow.

[Abispa]

I know A LOT of players choose "Destroy" just because it kills EDI, but I have chosen "No Catalyst" ending just because it results in Joker's death. Wasn't happy with him in ME2 and I learned to be totally apathetic toward him in ME3.

[Ryzaki]

DiebytheSword wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Synthetics have different means of creating emotions, but those emotions are no intrinsically less genuine.

Even so, it's incredibly shallow for Joker to suddenly like a computer simply because of her stupid sexbot.

He didn't suddenly like her, he has always loved the Normandy, but EDI provided a voice, personality and dare I say it, soul, for him to interact with on a whole new level.  I think the sex bot had less to do its curves, and more to do with its presence, a sudden way for him to interact with the Normandy in a far different fasion than he had before.  Can I say I would feel that way?  No, I can't, but I can see how Joker would.

Honestly that is not even remotely the impression I got. I saw alot of disgusting objectification and outright disrespect and it severely lessened my opinion of the character.

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

What I saw from ME2 is nothing more than friendship, and not even a close one. It's lame that his relationship with a toaster progressed more than a human being who has been with him since the first game.

It's all a moot point anyways. With EDI dead, why can't we have Joker romance?

The butthurt is strong with this one...

To be fair I didn't see any romance developing between them either.

And for said romance to develop only after she gets a sex bot body strikes me as...incredibly shallow.

Didn't you also want to romance Joker? I'm fairly sure the subtext was there earlier., including in ME3 before she takes Eva's body.

[Rotgutso]

Ryzaki wrote...

DiebytheSword wrote...

Rotgutso wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Synthetics have different means of creating emotions, but those emotions are no intrinsically less genuine.

Even so, it's incredibly shallow for Joker to suddenly like a computer simply because of her stupid sexbot.

He didn't suddenly like her, he has always loved the Normandy, but EDI provided a voice, personality and dare I say it, soul, for him to interact with on a whole new level.  I think the sex bot had less to do its curves, and more to do with its presence, a sudden way for him to interact with the Normandy in a far different fasion than he had before.  Can I say I would feel that way?  No, I can't, but I can see how Joker would.

Honestly that is not even remotely the impression I got. I saw alot of disgusting objectification and outright disrespect and it severely lessened my opinion of the character.

Exactly. EDI dragged down Joker.

[Xilizhra]

Exactly. EDI dragged down Joker.

Then why do you still want to romance him?

[Rotgutso]

Xilizhra wrote...

Exactly. EDI dragged down Joker.

Then why do you still want to romance him?

Because if I romanced him, he won't be dragged down like that.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
Didn't you also want to romance Joker? I'm fairly sure the subtext was there earlier., including in ME3 before she takes Eva's body.

Before? Yes. Now? Not at all certain. Pretty sure leaning towards no actually. I just dislike the character now.

And how could that be since you don't even see/hear the two interact until she gets that sexbot body? Unless I missed some dialogue? 

@Rotgutso : She did. But knowing such a disrespectful creep is there now utterly repulses me. I can barely stand talking to him now. I dunno.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 juillet 2012 - 11:39 .

[Abispa]

Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly yeah I thought Joker should've been an option. The laughable excuse he gives for not romancing Shep is pathetic. If he had simply said he wasn't attracted to her, or she was more of a sister, or friendzoned her? Sure whatever. But regs? Pffft.

And yeah Destroy has EDI becoming scrap metal anyway. So don't see why there couldn't have been an ShepardxJoker ship.

Wouldn't Alliance regs, I don't know, say you shouldn't join a terrorist organization that performs medical and mind-control experiments, AND murder high ranking Alliance officers? But Joker dismisses all the ME1 Cerberus stuff because they gave him a ship to fly.

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Honestly yeah I thought Joker should've been an option. The laughable excuse he gives for not romancing Shep is pathetic. If he had simply said he wasn't attracted to her, or she was more of a sister, or friendzoned her? Sure whatever. But regs? Pffft.

And yeah Destroy has EDI becoming scrap metal anyway. So don't see why there couldn't have been an ShepardxJoker ship.

Wouldn't Alliance regs, I don't know, say you shouldn't join a terrorist organization that performs medical and mind-control experiments, AND murder high ranking Alliance officers? But Joker dismisses all the ME1 Cerberus stuff because they gave him a ship to fly.

That's what makes the excuse so laughably pathetic.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Ryzaki wrote...
...knowing such a disrespectful creep is there now utterly repulses me. I can barely stand talking to him now. I dunno. 

Abispa wrote...
Joker dismisses all the ME1 Cerberus stuff because they gave him a ship to fly.

 

I don't know why either of you see him as disrespectful or creepy but, they gave him a ship to fly with the condition that Shepard would be his boss. Throughout ME2, EDI has an interest in Jeff and constantly toys with him: "I like the sight of humans on their knees..." She expresses that she depends on him to keep her flying and so, Jeff's character arcs from completely opposed to synthetics to seeing her as an exception.
Between ME2:Arrival and ME3, he convinces her "hide" as VI. She, in turn, convinces the technicians that she will respond only to him. I took it that he knew he would be in the klink and she did what she could to rescue him.

So, in ME3, while studying EVA, she finds she can "wear" EVA. What does she do with EVA?
Runs straight to Jeff.

Jeff, on the other hand, if you remeber in ME1, there are some hints that he has a crush on Liara. "Are you spying on us?!" After LOTSB, he quite directly asks if she's embraced eternity recently. Jeff has been living nearly completely vicariously through Shepard's suit monitors. I got the impression he had given up on interacting with people.
From that perspective, it seems resonable to me that he would be willing to go beyond friendzone with EDI if she was  anthropomorphically relatable.

It ALWAYS seemed to me that getting into EVA was her specifically trying snare him.

And an excuse like 'regs' doesn't fly: He's made of tissue paper and Shepard headbutts Krogans and leaps 5 meters wearing heavy armor...

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 10 juillet 2012 - 12:40 .

[Abispa]

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

I don't know why either of you see him as disrespectful or creepy but, they gave him a ship to fly with the condition that Shepard would be his boss.

"Hey, Joker. Remember us? Cerberus? That evil black ops human-centric terrorist organization that performed a bunch of insane biological experiments in ME1? And all that mind-control stuff? Well, we're giving you a ship to fly! But don't worry, it'll be under the command of Shepard, who we've just raised from the dead. We didn't mess with his/her mind, though, don't you worry. That'd be beneath us."

As for disrespectful, just listen to him talk about EDI when she walks in with EVA's body.  The game goes through great lengths to show get the player to accept and respect her character, and there's Joker "baking a cake" over her new "sexy, robot body." EDI even expresses concern over his oogling.

So, what is it BioWare? Is EDI a character we should respect, or just a sex doll?

Not that Joker's attitude is unique. Engineer Jeff and beefcake Vega also venture well past the line in disrespecting women OPENLY and  in front of SUPERIOR OFFICERS with NO FEAR of being corrected.

He's creepy and disrespectful, but I guess we have to use that label on the ME team, too.

[m2iCodeJockey]

 

Abispa wrote...
...Remember us?...

 
TIM: "No, no, no. I knew jack about experement specifics. No, man! We totally need Shepard! We're bringing her back. Here, have some wine. Look at Miranda for a while. Miranda, spin around for Jeff."
Miranda: *mutters*"Freaky-eyed pig."

Abispa wrote...
So, what is it BioWare? Is EDI a character we should respect, or just a sex doll?

She's more of a willing participant.

If you remember, the shape that EVA has while EDI is wearing EVA is reflective of EDI's perception of Jeff's desires. When Jeff, off screen, tells her: "You don't have to conform to [an average of all the extranet pron you've observed me downloading and 'USING',]" she "calls him on his bull****..."
He oggles her but, she wants HIM in particular to oggle her.

I did try to intercept him which is why I think the 'regs' thing is a cover. I'm surprised they didn't put a "Femshep crushes someone's hand while shaking" joke in there though, they did manage the headbutt thing.
She's freakin' made of steel and he doesn't want to be injured. I got it...

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:22 .

[Ryzaki]

Abispa wrote...

m2iCodeJockey wrote...

I don't know why either of you see him as disrespectful or creepy but, they gave him a ship to fly with the condition that Shepard would be his boss.

"Hey, Joker. Remember us? Cerberus? That evil black ops human-centric terrorist organization that performed a bunch of insane biological experiments in ME1? And all that mind-control stuff? Well, we're giving you a ship to fly! But don't worry, it'll be under the command of Shepard, who we've just raised from the dead. We didn't mess with his/her mind, though, don't you worry. That'd be beneath us."

As for disrespectful, just listen to him talk about EDI when she walks in with EVA's body.  The game goes through great lengths to show get the player to accept and respect her character, and there's Joker "baking a cake" over her new "sexy, robot body." EDI even expresses concern over his oogling.

So, what is it BioWare? Is EDI a character we should respect, or just a sex doll?

Not that Joker's attitude is unique. Engineer Jeff and beefcake Vega also venture well past the line in disrespecting women OPENLY and  in front of SUPERIOR OFFICERS with NO FEAR of being corrected.

He's creepy and disrespectful, but I guess we have to use that label on the ME team, too.

Yeah it just...ugh. The whole thing makes me wanna barf. And the fact that Shep can't call them on it is rage inducing.

[Jonata]

The title of this thread is creepy.

[m2iCodeJockey]

Ryzaki wrote...
...And the fact that Shep can't call them on it is rage inducing.

I once wrote elsewhere:

FemShep: "...And EDI doesn't wear a uniform... No, I've got everything she's got. Have you seen the electronics I have in here?"
Jeff: "..." *looks at EDI*
FemShep:"That's bullsh*t! It's because I'm not a ship! You have a ship fetish!!"
Jeff: "No duh!"
EDI: "Bamb! Come with me, Jeff."
Jeff: "Yes, my overlord!"
FemShep: * |-{ * "..."
Traynor: "I want to see what you have in there..."
FemShep: "You're just talking to me because you can't have EDI."
Traynor: *sips drink*

Modifié par m2iCodeJockey, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:44 .

[Ryzaki]

...I play a dude Shep. So he gets rejected by Traynor regardless poor baby.