144 réponses à ce sujet

[Blueprotoss]

 

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You seem to be under the impression that xPlay is on your side. They are not. Media necessarily depends on EA's goodwill for developer interviews, early access, etc so there is a clear conflict of interests. 

The "bad precedent" is customer feedback compromising the developers artistic integrity. Thing is, you can have all the artistic integrity you want as long as you're willing to do it as a hobby - otherwise, you may have to compromise if people don't like your ideas. 

Actually, it proves just that. Bioware rushed the game, charged customers upfront and only finished the game three months later. Fans were unable to see through the transparent PR ploy that is EC, so... why exactly should companies *not* do that again?

If the Gaming Industry depended on the media like you said then ME would have been killed by Fox News when ME1 was released.

Insulting the Developer for no reason and sending petty death threats is a bad precedent especially when the angry "fans" were the minority.

ME3 wasn't rushed at all especially when its developement and production started alongside with ME2.  It seems like you're using your opinion as a red herring.

Shaleist wrote...

If future, stupid twist endings are dissuaded then it's a good thing. You're never being clever when a brand new antagonist hops out in the last 0.01% of your story.

Yet expecting the same antagonist and doing the generic ending solve anything. 

Vox Draco wrote...

The only good thing this whole controversy sparked is truly that other game-devs might pay more attention to their own franchises and their fans. Bioware did not fall flat on their noses because they took risks with this silly ending, but because the ending clearly violates everything prior to the Starchild and also doesn't keep up with the promises made by the previous games...not to mention the mood the advertisments put us fans in, like Retake Earth etc...never was reality and promise further apart than after the ending of ME3, EC or not...

Devs can tell their own story and should do so, and of course a whole trilogy is hard to finish with so many different choices to make. But that is no excuse for Bioware. Mass Effect was very early said to be a trilogy and choices and their results were meant to be the core of the game, but the ending now is like a satire on this concept, with three choices slapped onto the story for no understandable reasons. And the story since ME1 feels less and less as if it was really growing naturally, but more like "constructed"...

I really, truly hope devs in the game-industry learn from this and take their own franchises and the feelings of their customers and their expectations more serious. You still have the right to go your own ways and try to surprise your fans, but it should be pleasant surprises, not nihilistic and depressing ones...

Thats  a paradox based on how ME is Bioware's story not our story.

richard_rider wrote...

Amen, getting tired of twist plots, and endings, sometimes a straightforward story is all that's needed.

How could you based on how they're rarely done in games. 

Versus Omnibus wrote...

X-Play is just being paranoid that the EC will somehow ruin creativity in video games (which is bullsh!t).

I guess you missed the "year of entitlement" then. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 09 juillet 2012 - 10:46 .

[DeamonSlaz]

Something tells me Money will make any critic say anything.

I'm beginning to distrust most forms of Media, especially when I am told for being wrong for not liking something. Can't recall if it was IGN or GameStop, but I recall reading that we should be grateful Bioware are doing EC and (I'm paraphrasing) should worship them for considering us.

Where do theyget off thinking they are 'Gods' or something?

COmputer Games are played by players and if we players do not like something, then hell, we will complain. We know how to use the internet and we are not afraid.

Now if I can just get all of you to vote that every Thursday should be free Pizza Night across the US and I think we will be getting somewhere

[2Shepards]

Here I'll just say it, screw your backwards idea of artistic integrity, I pay your ******* bills.

[Kel Riever]

2Shepards wrote...

Here I'll just say it, screw your backwards idea of artistic integrity, I pay your ******* bills.

You just ended your point better than the ending of Mass Effect 3!

Clearly, you can't change your ending.  You wouldn't know how to write that ending.

[Doom972]

It's not that much of a precedent. Fallout 3 had a much worse ending, and Bethesda made DLC in which the main quest continues from that point and ends in a much more satisfying way. It does more than the EC does, but it also costs money.

[Xamufam]

Modifié par Troxa, 09 juillet 2012 - 11:09 .

[AlexMBrennan]

If the Gaming Industry depended on the media like you said then ME would have been killed by Fox News when ME1 was released.

You fail at reading comprehension. I said that the media depends on the gaming industry. If you can't get advertising from EA, interviews or advanced copies, then you can't report on games. Your site/magazine/etc is dead.

Insulting the Developer for no reason and sending petty death threats is a bad precedent especially when the angry "fans" were the minority.

How is this relevant? I have said that I won't buy any more Bioware games unless Casey resigns and I stand by that. However, that is not a threat - it is my decision whether or not to buy future Bioware games; all I am telling you now is what that decision will be based on.

ME3 wasn't rushed at all especially when its developement and production started alongside with ME2. It seems like you're using your opinion as a red herring.

I am inferring that the game was rushed from a) it being blatantly unfinished (animations, background sprites on Earth, etc) and Bioware having been granted an extension once. Generally, when people need more time, odds are that the extension won't be sufficient.

But OK, I'll concede that the game might not have been rushed. In that case, Bioware has demonstrated that they can ship a product that requires extensive work (the EC) to be satisfactory whilst getting fans to handle their PR and thank them for it. My point stands.

[nhcre8tv1]

lol Journalists. Such a naive species.

[jstme]

Developers acitng according to the will of marketing directors, financial directors, publishers and following years old trends - is ok. Allows artistic freedom. Not to speak about integrity.
Developers fixing broken product due to consumer outcry - dangerous precedent.
Lol. I think that video game journali$t$ are not that objective. Nor are they good at being video game journalists - Fallout 3 was not a precedent? Look how changing the endings due to fans requests messed the industry - there was no new groundbreaking games since then....

[Renmiri1]

Precursor2552 wrote...

Well I suppose the precedent that making a half-assed, phoned in, terrible game isn't acceptable is a bad precedent to certain people...

QFT

[Blueprotoss]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

You fail at reading comprehension. I said that the media depends on the gaming industry. If you can't get advertising from EA, interviews or advanced copies, then you can't report on games. Your site/magazine/etc is dead.

Insulting people is useless just like your flawed logic.

AlexMBrennan wrote... 

How is this relevant? I have said that I won't buy any more Bioware games unless Casey resigns and I stand by that. However, that is not a threat - it is my decision whether or not to buy future Bioware games; all I am telling you now is what that decision will be based on. 

I highly doubt this especially when most boycotts have just like how people that hated Halo: Reach will get Halo 4 and the people that thought L4D2 was way too early.

AlexMBrennan wrote...  

But OK, I'll concede that the game might not have been rushed. In that case, Bioware has demonstrated that they can ship a product that requires extensive work (the EC) to be satisfactory whilst getting fans to handle their PR and thank them for it. My point stands.

You act like more time is a good thing while its a bad thing like what happened with Too Human, Splinter Cell: Conviction, and Duke Nukem: Forever.

[Blueprotoss]

jstme wrote...

Developers acitng according to the will of marketing directors, financial directors, publishers and following years old trends - is ok. Allows artistic freedom. Not to speak about integrity.
Developers fixing broken product due to consumer outcry - dangerous precedent.
Lol. I think that video game journali$t$ are not that objective. Nor are they good at being video game journalists - Fallout 3 was not a precedent? Look how changing the endings due to fans requests messed the industry - there was no new groundbreaking games since then....

All I see is entitlement and hypocrisy based on art alone.  I loathe the majority of rap music and everything Twlight related while they're still art.

[Grimwick]

Shaleist wrote...

If future, stupid twist endings are dissuaded then it's a good thing. You're never being clever when a brand new antagonist hops out in the last 0.01% of your story.

Oh I really hope that this message comes through to people as well as the rushing games one.

I am sick to death of twists for the sake of twists...

[hoodaticus]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Actually, it proves just that. Bioware rushed the game, charged customers upfront and only finished the game three months later. Fans were unable to see through the transparent PR ploy that is EC, so... why exactly should companies *not* do that again?

Because they could have spent that three months soaking up my worship and money (on DLC).  Now, I'm almost done with the entire ME series because Meersheploo appears to be discontinued, and he's the main reason I like this series.

[Madeline Lightning]

G4 are idiots. I mean Adam Sessler was remotely interesting when he was there, but anyone else there is a joke.  I don't take any critics serious anymore after alot of reasons, some you'd probably find shocking to know, but I'm not posting my resume' up here to a bunch of strangers.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.

[Grimwick]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.

That way of thinking is what depowers consumers and empowers corporations.

Personally, I prefer it when corporations and commercial enterprises are liable to the people they sell to. that way we don't get manipulated by big business...

[Kel Riever]

Grimwick wrote...

Shaleist wrote...

If future, stupid twist endings are dissuaded then it's a good thing. You're never being clever when a brand new antagonist hops out in the last 0.01% of your story.

Oh I really hope that this message comes through to people as well as the rushing games one.

I am sick to death of twists for the sake of twists...

It is called being a pseudointellectual, and is the plague of every bad writer with an over-important view of himself.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

Grimwick wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.

That way of thinking is what depowers consumers and empowers corporations.

Not really. I just don't think gamers should have anything to say, when it comes to how the devs want to tell their story. Gameplay fixes and other problems is fine.

[SeaJayX]

Morgan Webb doesn't have any lips.

It's all I can think about while watching X-Play.

[AresKeith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.

That way of thinking is what depowers consumers and empowers corporations.

Not really. I just don't think gamers should have anything to say, when it comes to how the devs want to tell their story. Gameplay fixes and other problems is fine.

our money are the reason they able to make more game, so without us there basically done

[Brovikk Rasputin]

AresKeith wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.

That way of thinking is what depowers consumers and empowers corporations.

Not really. I just don't think gamers should have anything to say, when it comes to how the devs want to tell their story. Gameplay fixes and other problems is fine.

our money are the reason they able to make more game, so without us there basically done

That is true, but that still doesn't mean you have the right to demand stuff to be changed, just because you don't like it. 

[Renmiri1]

Ahh the joys of seeing Journalistic Integrity bend itself backwards to scratch Artistic Integrity's back...

[jstme]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.

That way of thinking is what depowers consumers and empowers corporations.

Not really. I just don't think gamers should have anything to say, when it comes to how the devs want to tell their story. Gameplay fixes and other problems is fine.

I am sorry? Why i should not have anything to say about product that i bought? I have every right to speak my mind about the thing.
Devs can choose to listen or not to listen ,they can even choose to hire more PR guys instead of graphic artists and handle the situation that way - but people have the right to express their views about the story developer told and about its artistic integrity.
Corporations clearly do not like this.

[AresKeith]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.

That way of thinking is what depowers consumers and empowers corporations.

Not really. I just don't think gamers should have anything to say, when it comes to how the devs want to tell their story. Gameplay fixes and other problems is fine.

our money are the reason they able to make more game, so without us there basically done

That is true, but that still doesn't mean you have the right to demand stuff to be changed, just because you don't like it. 

but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money