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DLC Setting a BAD Precedent ?!?! What?!?!


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#51
Xamufam

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Found this
[quote]Iozeph wrote...
The trouble with narrative
storytelling as opposed to pictures, is that pictures/paintings are made
to be seen and it's acceptable for meaning to be left to the viewer.
Yet words are to writers as palette, paint, and inks to a illustrators.
And a blank page isn't enough.

There's a compact between the
writer and the reader. As readers we accept that a work of fiction is a
carefully constructed fabrication, yes. Yet it's one in which we, as
readers, are 'in on' with the writer. There's an understanding that
there will be consistency which adheres within that written framework.
As readers we give our trust to the writer. All we'll ever know of the
world he's created are the bits he's shown to us.

Bad or good, are of course, subjective. I would even argue irrelevant.

Where
integrity breaks downs is when the writer breaks that compact- where he
either deliberately leaves details out that are germain/central to
explaining the narrative, or forgets them without later addressing them;
when he breaks consistency, either in plot or in character development,
but without giving solid causation leading toward it. Worse yet are the
times when he handwaves- when he lies or omits, is caught out, and then
says it doesn't matter. Let me just say that it does matter. Being
subtle is one thing, so long as there is a progression the reader is
able to follow. It needn't be grand or sweeping- perhaps no more than a
simple sentence given in passing, so long as it's there.

You
don't hide from or deceive your reader. You don't tie a blindfold over
their eyes and expect them love you for it. You just don't. I don't care
who you are. That's the worst sin a writer could ever commit. It shows
utter contempt for the reader.

A teacher once said to me, 'Never
write something on a page that you wouldn't want someone to read. The
words you write come from you. They are your soul in print.' The
integrity of an author and his work are so tightly woven together as to
be one. When a writer deceives a reader, it's not a matter of whether
having his integrity attacked becomes reasonable. He loses what no angry
reader or critic could ever hope to steal from him. He has no integrity
left.

Modifié par Troxa, 10 juillet 2012 - 02:22 .


#52
Brovikk Rasputin

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AresKeith wrote...
but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money

Scam you? When did that happen?

#53
-Skorpious-

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

Extending the ending(s) to your game = Not dangerous. Still, it shouldn't happen with every game that comes out.

Changing the ending(s) to your game because some fans are angry = Very, VERY dangerous. Gamers should not have that much control. Ever.


That way of thinking is what depowers consumers and empowers corporations.

Not really. I just don't think gamers should have anything to say, when it comes to how the devs want to tell their story. Gameplay fixes and other problems is fine.



our money are the reason they able to make more game, so without us there basically done

That is true, but that still doesn't mean you have the right to demand stuff to be changed, just because you don't like it. 


We can demand all we like. After all, Bioware has the final (and only) say in the direction they take their games, so there is no harm in the consumer expressing a desire to see X possibly changed. 

#54
AresKeith

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Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money

Scam you? When did that happen?


not really scam but shady or stupid actions
Capcom with their disc locked DLC, lets not forget UMvC3
Activision constantly making everything a fps
EA need I say more

ME3 day 1 DLC was shady by EA

#55
Zero132132

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I think the OP gets the dangers of it exactly backwards. This didn't teach companies that they can't ignore the finish of a game. On the contrary, the lesson here apparently is that you can release a product that feels incomplete and throw in the missing bits later. That's the way a corporation will see it, even if the users feel that their voices were heard, and their concerns were at least considered.

Think about what title updates have done to gaming. In theory, it's fantastic; the devs can finally patch glitches and exploits after release! In the past, if a glitch was included in the shipped product, it was there forever.

What's the consequence been, though? Games are released with more and more glitches, and at this point, plenty of gamers are starting to feel like people that buy new games are essentially the beta-testers now, and that QA is often ignored until post-release. Do we really want to start feeling the same way about the stories in the games as well?

#56
Strange Aeons

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This just in: anything that would upset the status quo of the big development studios and their poodle "journalists" in the gaming media shoveling less content to pliable consumers for more money is a bad precedent.

Ironically, game corporations don't hesitate to stoke the fires of community involvement when it works to their advantage, whipping up fans to generate word-of-mouth, sell pricy merchandise, and increase pre-release sales. Now they're finding out that when they spectacularly fail to deliver, that passion is a sword that cuts both ways. You live and die by the expectations you create.

#57
Si-Shen

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X-play hasn't been worth watching for a while now so their opinions are to be ignored as they are indoctronated.

As it has been mentioned, media, especially gaming media depends on the good will of the developers and publishers, if they speak out, the publishers tend not to send out the review copies, they hold back or give interviews to everyone but them, etc. This has happened before, EA did not like a review of a game it published and threatened the media, which turned tail and ran, changing their review. If I could remember the details I would but this was years ago.

#58
Blueprotoss

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jstme wrote...

I am sorry? Why i should not have anything to say about product that i bought? I have every right to speak my mind about the thing.
Devs can choose to listen or not to listen ,they can even choose to hire more PR guys instead of graphic artists and handle the situation that way - but people have the right to express their views about the story developer told and about its artistic integrity.
Corporations clearly do not like this. 

Yet you don't own the IP that ME is and you didn't create the ME universe, which means that ME is Bioware's story not our story.

#59
Blueprotoss

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AresKeith wrote...

but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money

Crying wolf won't help you either especially when you aren't going after Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, 2K, Ubisoft, THQ, Warner Bros, Tecmo, Sega, Valve, Bethesda, or Square Enix.

AresKeith wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...
but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money

Scam you? When did that happen?


not really scam but shady or stupid actions
Capcom with their disc locked DLC, lets not forget UMvC3
Activision constantly making everything a fps
EA need I say more

ME3 day 1 DLC was shady by EA

Day 1 isn't anything new especially when we're talking about the VIP pass while its to move on instead of being a hypocrite based on trying to start useless witch hunt.   Btw it sounds like you rarely watch or read anything because of your entitlement.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:49 .


#60
SackofCat

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Maybe the risk is that a corporation might be reluctant to allow too much artistic freedom. The EC was probably an expensive lesson for EA; probably more expensive than any other ending revision in a video game. Couple that with the microtransaction and From Ashes-like DLC and we might be looking at EA making consumer-unfriendly choices with the games they publish.

There is a bit of a conflict of interest for many game journalists that belittled and attempted to invalidate the consumer's criticisms. In a way, the EC is Bioware taking the side of the consumers over the game journalists and that makes them look wrong/like dlcks.

#61
AresKeith

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Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money

Crying wolf won't help you either especially when you aren't going after Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, 2K, Ubisoft, THQ, Warner Bros, Tecmo, Sega, Valve, Bethesda, or Square Enix.


I'm not going after them because I don't have a problem with them

nobody has a problem with Bethesda

#62
BigTuna82

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AresKeith wrote...

ME3 day 1 DLC was shady by EA

What's the alternative?  Collector's addition is sold-out and you're here complaining about how you didn't get it.  It's really lose, lose with most of you "fans".  Insufferable.

Modifié par BigTuna82, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:54 .


#63
AresKeith

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BigTuna82 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

ME3 day 1 DLC was shady by EA

What's the alternative?  Collector's addition is sold-out and you're here complaining about how you didn't get it.  It's really lose, lose with most of you fans.  Insufferable.


the CE didn't even matter, because the prothean mission was already on the disc

#64
Blueprotoss

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SackofCat wrote...

Maybe the risk is that a corporation might be reluctant to allow too much artistic freedom. The EC was probably an expensive lesson for EA; probably more expensive than any other ending revision in a video game. Couple that with the microtransaction and From Ashes-like DLC and we might be looking at EA making consumer-unfriendly choices with the games they publish.

There is a bit of a conflict of interest for many game journalists that belittled and attempted to invalidate the consumer's criticisms. In a way, the EC is Bioware taking the side of the consumers over the game journalists and that makes them look wrong/like dlcks.

I sense a lot of entitlement from this straw-mann while all you're doing is alienating more and more gamers as a group by being this petty and immature.

#65
Blueprotoss

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AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money

Crying wolf won't help you either especially when you aren't going after Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, 2K, Ubisoft, THQ, Warner Bros, Tecmo, Sega, Valve, Bethesda, or Square Enix.


I'm not going after them because I don't have a problem with them

nobody has a problem with Bethesda

Thats a lie especially you aren't directing your anger against the Industy pratices and I highly doubt that you have played a Bethesda game.

AresKeith wrote...

BigTuna82 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

ME3 day 1 DLC was shady by EA

What's the alternative?  Collector's addition is sold-out and you're here complaining about how you didn't get it.  It's really lose, lose with most of you fans.  Insufferable.


the CE didn't even matter, because the prothean mission was already on the disc

Javik was only on the disc while everything else in From Dust  wasn't. 

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 juillet 2012 - 02:01 .


#66
AresKeith

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Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

but that doesn't mean people like EA, Capcom, and Activision should be trying scam us for more money

Crying wolf won't help you either especially when you aren't going after Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, 2K, Ubisoft, THQ, Warner Bros, Tecmo, Sega, Valve, Bethesda, or Square Enix.


I'm not going after them because I don't have a problem with them

nobody has a problem with Bethesda

Thats a lie especially you aren't directing your anger against the Industy pratices and I highly doubt that you have played a Bethesda game.


hmmm lets see Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Skyrim, and sadly Brink for a day

so you need to shut up for trying to tell me what I don't play you ignorant troll, yes thats an insult

#67
Blueprotoss

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AresKeith wrote...

hmmm lets see Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Skyrim, and sadly Brink for a day

so you need to shut up for trying to tell me what I don't play you ignorant troll, yes thats an insult

I still doubt that based on how they always have small uproars from bugs whether its launch or post launch.  Btw you stiill don't know what the word "troll" is based on your ignorance and immaturity.

#68
AresKeith

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Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

hmmm lets see Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Skyrim, and sadly Brink for a day

so you need to shut up for trying to tell me what I don't play you ignorant troll, yes thats an insult

I still doubt that based on how they always have small uproars from bugs whether its launch or post launch.  Btw you stiill don't know what the word "troll" is based on your ignorance and immaturity.


so because they had a "small uproar" that has nothing to do with me, I haven't played those games?

your an idiot

#69
Blueprotoss

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AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

hmmm lets see Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Skyrim, and sadly Brink for a day

so you need to shut up for trying to tell me what I don't play you ignorant troll, yes thats an insult

I still doubt that based on how they always have small uproars from bugs whether its launch or post launch.  Btw you stiill don't know what the word "troll" is based on your ignorance and immaturity.


so because they had a "small uproar" that has nothing to do with me, I haven't played those games?

your an idiot

I see that you still want to avoid the facts and to throw out the childish insults.

#70
AresKeith

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Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

hmmm lets see Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Skyrim, and sadly Brink for a day

so you need to shut up for trying to tell me what I don't play you ignorant troll, yes thats an insult

I still doubt that based on how they always have small uproars from bugs whether its launch or post launch.  Btw you stiill don't know what the word "troll" is based on your ignorance and immaturity.


so because they had a "small uproar" that has nothing to do with me, I haven't played those games?

your an idiot

I see that you still want to avoid the facts and to throw out the childish insults.


facts? you saying I don't play games because you say so

your a troll with an ego problem, urban defintion- someone trying to get attention by saying stupid comments such as yourself

bye bosh'tet

#71
BigTuna82

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AresKeith wrote...

your an idiot

About sums it up.

Bioware, a great 3 games.  My favorite.  And while I there were some things about the 3rd game I didn't like, I'm still starting a second play-through.  Looking forward to more games down the road.

#72
Blueprotoss

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AresKeith wrote...

facts? you saying I don't play games because you say so

your a troll with an ego problem, urban defintion- someone trying to get attention by saying stupid comments such as yourself

bye bosh'tet

Insulting me still is usless while its ironic on how you have the ego problem and are "trolling".

#73
SparkyRich

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Game developers are toy-makers of the 21st century. A toy is meant to be played with, handled, tossed around, perhaps chewed on and thoroughly enjoyed by the target market. A toy can be a work of art, but is it integral to its purpose? I think not. Stating that art is more important than fun in a game is ludicrous at best. If you're going that direction, make a movie - it's less embarrassing if you fail.

I understand the statements made about it being difficult to plan for every eventuality when making a story-driven series like Mass Effect, but you should at least have a general outline to follow. Direct admissions of absolute failure to plan almost anything (well, they didn't say they "failed to plan," but it sounded like it to me) explain how the mess that is the ending occurred. "Now you will pay for your lack of vision...."

#74
Blueprotoss

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SparkyRich wrote...

Game developers are toy-makers of the 21st century. A toy is meant to be played with, handled, tossed around, perhaps chewed on and thoroughly enjoyed by the target market. A toy can be a work of art, but is it integral to its purpose? I think not. Stating that art is more important than fun in a game is ludicrous at best. If you're going that direction, make a movie - it's less embarrassing if you fail.

I understand the statements made about it being difficult to plan for every eventuality when making a story-driven series like Mass Effect, but you should at least have a general outline to follow. Direct admissions of absolute failure to plan almost anything (well, they didn't say they "failed to plan," but it sounded like it to me) explain how the mess that is the ending occurred. "Now you will pay for your lack of vision...."

I'm sure you wouldn't have an easy job when you have over 65,000 plotlines to work from a playthrough from the beginning of ME1 to the end of ME3.

#75
Kel Riever

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Right, excuses. That's good!  I wonder why there are people who actually have good endings to their games.  Hmmmnnn.....maybe they are synthesized....

Modifié par Kel Riever, 10 juillet 2012 - 02:40 .