144 réponses à ce sujet

[UniqueName001]

I saw that episode of XPlay as well.  It was finally enough for me to take it off my TiVo list.  That show is pretty much nothing more than a half-hour commercial.  Their preachy, condescending "bad precident" and "vocal minority" idiocy just finalized my (embarassingly slow) realization that they are empty talking heads.

Sure, they give bad reviews of a few games, but I am willing to bet money you are never going to see a major title get a bad review on there.

For one thing, they depend on getting interviews with people in the industry (Cliff Bleszinski is on that show all the time, for example) to keep the show interesting.  They are never going to rag on an Epic Games title due to their close relationship with him.

In some ways, that is just human nature - it's harder to criticise someone you have met and talked with and who has done favors for you (early/exclusive game information, tours of your studio, etc.).  It's also clever marketing on the part of the industry.  But it does pretty much mean that you can't take their reviews at face value.

Also, let's not forget that Blair Herter is married to Jessica Chobot, adding another layer to the conflict-of-interest cake.

[Blueprotoss]

UniqueName001 wrote...

I saw that episode of XPlay as well.  It was finally enough for me to take it off my TiVo list.  That show is pretty much nothing more than a half-hour commercial.  Their preachy, condescending "bad precident" and "vocal minority" idiocy just finalized my (embarassingly slow) realization that they are empty talking heads.

Sure, they give bad reviews of a few games, but I am willing to bet money you are never going to see a major title get a bad review on there.

For one thing, they depend on getting interviews with people in the industry (Cliff Bleszinski is on that show all the time, for example) to keep the show interesting.  They are never going to rag on an Epic Games title due to their close relationship with him.

In some ways, that is just human nature - it's harder to criticise someone you have met and talked with and who has done favors for you (early/exclusive game information, tours of your studio, etc.).  It's also clever marketing on the part of the industry.  But it does pretty much mean that you can't take their reviews at face value.

Also, let's not forget that Blair Herter is married to Jessica Chobot, adding another layer to the conflict-of-interest cake.

Pot calling the kettle black.

[nitefyre410]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that the real problem is that it does set a bad precedent for all the Game reviewers who are in the pocket of the major producers. They all look like fools if they give games 10/10 scores and then the developer implicitly acknowledges themselves that it was a rush-job and expands the ending.

 

^ This ... exactly ... it means that his sorry tail is going to actually have to do his job for once. Instead of collecting a pay check and trying to sound like he knows what he is talking about.  

And  as far as this bad precedent that is being by fan input  getting the ending change..

yeah I would like to introduce  some of these gaming  "journalist' to Aurthur C. Doyle... 

but they are sooooo much smarter than us gamers I'm sure they know about him already. 

[Blueprotoss]

translationninja wrote...

Someone needs to grab a Merriam-Websters or something and look up "entitlement", it's not a bad word you know, throwing it around like it's derogatory or negative just makes people look incredibly foolish.

Of course if a "customer's entitlement" is a strange concept to some, then my offer of many threads to discuss my latest 2 Minute Killer Abs Machine, investments in Russia and helping my uncle in the justice ministry of Nigeria the honorable Dr. Dr. Mabutu Mbabwe to transfer 49 Million Dollar out of the country for a philantropist widow's estate still stand.

Yet entitlement is a bad word especially when a small uproar resorted to petty insults and childish death threats directed at Bioware from the "fans".  Btw you shouldn't forget that ME is Bioware's story not our story.

[Blueprotoss]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I think that the real problem is that it does set a bad precedent for all the Game reviewers who are in the pocket of the major producers. They all look like fools if they give games 10/10 scores and then the developer implicitly acknowledges themselves that it was a rush-job and expands the ending.

 

^ This ... exactly ... it means that his sorry tail is going to actually have to do his job for once. Instead of collecting a pay check and trying to sound like he knows what he is talking about.  

And  as far as this bad precedent that is being by fan input  getting the ending change..

yeah I would like to introduce  some of these gaming  "journalist' to Aurthur C. Doyle... 

but they are sooooo much smarter than us gamers I'm sure they know about him already. 

All I see is hypocrisy in a nut shell especially when that Sherlock Holmes book was in journal form when that happened.

[translationninja]

Blueprotoss wrote...

translationninja wrote...

Someone needs to grab a Merriam-Websters or something and look up "entitlement", it's not a bad word you know, throwing it around like it's derogatory or negative just makes people look incredibly foolish.

Of course if a "customer's entitlement" is a strange concept to some, then my offer of many threads to discuss my latest 2 Minute Killer Abs Machine, investments in Russia and helping my uncle in the justice ministry of Nigeria the honorable Dr. Dr. Mabutu Mbabwe to transfer 49 Million Dollar out of the country for a philantropist widow's estate still stand.

Yet entitlement is a bad word especially when a small uproar resorted to petty insults and childish death threats directed at Bioware from the "fans".  Btw you shouldn't forget that ME is Bioware's story not our story.

In this day and age, is there any new product released without some nutcracker making death threats for it?

F*** the customers of where I  work are happy with our products and still we get occasional death threats from some *******. Nothing special here.

 As for entitlement, dude, seriously, a Thesaurus or Merriam will help.

As for being their story, sure it's their story, that wasn't people's (most anyways) gripe, the gripe arose due to massive and aggressive marketing suggesting the story would end differently.

And finally, your insinuation that the ordeal was a "minority", not meaning anything personal by it, but that's delusional. The theory of silent armies of ending likers that just don't bother is just humbug.

[Blueprotoss]

translationninja wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

translationninja wrote...

Someone needs to grab a Merriam-Websters or something and look up "entitlement", it's not a bad word you know, throwing it around like it's derogatory or negative just makes people look incredibly foolish.

Of course if a "customer's entitlement" is a strange concept to some, then my offer of many threads to discuss my latest 2 Minute Killer Abs Machine, investments in Russia and helping my uncle in the justice ministry of Nigeria the honorable Dr. Dr. Mabutu Mbabwe to transfer 49 Million Dollar out of the country for a philantropist widow's estate still stand.

Yet entitlement is a bad word especially when a small uproar resorted to petty insults and childish death threats directed at Bioware from the "fans".  Btw you shouldn't forget that ME is Bioware's story not our story.

In this day and age, is there any new product released without some nutcracker making death threats for it?

F*** the customers of where I  work are happy with our products and still we get occasional death threats from some *******. Nothing special here.

 As for entitlement, dude, seriously, a Thesaurus or Merriam will help.

As for being their story, sure it's their story, that wasn't people's (most anyways) gripe, the gripe arose due to massive and aggressive marketing suggesting the story would end differently.

And finally, your insinuation that the ordeal was a "minority" not meaning anything personal by it, but that's delusional. The theory of silent armies of ending likers that just don't bother is just humbug.

It seems like you won't listen to reason and it doesn't matter what age we're talking about because entitlement is always bad.  Actually it was the minority clamouring like the previous small uproars from the text without a voice from the hero in DA and the Shooter mechanics in ME2.  Btw creating straw-men and red herrings still won't help you especially when insults are involved.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 juillet 2012 - 06:46 .

[Meltemph]

Haha, ME3 was a risk in the same way Crystal Skull was a risk. Some people are perfectly fine with keeping something bad, at least BW tried to fix teh bad.  I'm not sure how one could complain about what the EC did... Well, outside of all the reviewers who said it was great.

especially when a small uproar resorted to petty insults and childish death threats directed at Bioware from the "fans".

Are you serious? That has nothing to do with entitlement...

Modifié par Meltemph, 10 juillet 2012 - 06:52 .

[Blueprotoss]

Meltemph wrote...

Are you serious? That has nothing to do with entitlement..

That is entitlement when you include the demand for a completely new ending with those petty insults and chilidish death threats.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .

[Meltemph]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Are you serious? That has nothing to do with entitlement..

That is entitlement when you include the demand for a completely new ending with those petty insults and chilidish death threats.

...

I'm not sure if you are serious or not, because that is an incredibly naive and simplistic way to look at how people respond.  Entitlement has nothing to do with death threats, there are plenty of people who feel entitled but are not threatening people.  Your logic is essetnially this: "When it rains the streets get wet, the streets are wet, therefore it rained", I am hoping you see a problem with that line of thinking.

Situations are just an excuse for people who do things like that, nothing more.  There is no way you could possibly know if they did that just out of entitlement and quite frankly thinking that enititlement is a simple enough reason for a death threat is jsut silly.

[Omega2079]

It's a continuation of the market place. Nothing is new by Bioware making the EC.

[Blueprotoss]

Meltemph wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Are you serious? That has nothing to do with entitlement..

That is entitlement when you include the demand for a completely new ending with those petty insults and chilidish death threats.

I'm not sure if you are serious or not, because that is an incredibly naive and simplistic way to look at how people respond.  Entitlement has nothing to do with death threats, there are plenty of people who feel entitled but are not threatening people.  Your logic is essetnially this: "When it rains the streets get wet, the streets are wet, therefore it rained", I am hoping you see a problem with that line of thinking.

Situations are just an excuse for people who do things like that, nothing more.  There is no way you could possibly know if they did that just out of entitlement and quite frankly thinking that enititlement is a simple enough reason for a death threat is jsut silly.

You should do the research or just use common sense.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:13 .

[translationninja]

Blueprotoss wrote...

translationninja wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

translationninja wrote...

Someone needs to grab a Merriam-Websters or something and look up "entitlement", it's not a bad word you know, throwing it around like it's derogatory or negative just makes people look incredibly foolish.

Of course if a "customer's entitlement" is a strange concept to some, then my offer of many threads to discuss my latest 2 Minute Killer Abs Machine, investments in Russia and helping my uncle in the justice ministry of Nigeria the honorable Dr. Dr. Mabutu Mbabwe to transfer 49 Million Dollar out of the country for a philantropist widow's estate still stand.

Yet entitlement is a bad word especially when a small uproar resorted to petty insults and childish death threats directed at Bioware from the "fans".  Btw you shouldn't forget that ME is Bioware's story not our story.

In this day and age, is there any new product released without some nutcracker making death threats for it?

F*** the customers of where I  work are happy with our products and still we get occasional death threats from some *******. Nothing special here.

 As for entitlement, dude, seriously, a Thesaurus or Merriam will help.

As for being their story, sure it's their story, that wasn't people's (most anyways) gripe, the gripe arose due to massive and aggressive marketing suggesting the story would end differently.

And finally, your insinuation that the ordeal was a "minority" not meaning anything personal by it, but that's delusional. The theory of silent armies of ending likers that just don't bother is just humbug.

It seems like you won't listen to reason and it doesn't matter what age we're talking about because entitlement is always bad.  Actually it was the minority clamouring like the previous small uproars from the text without a voice from the hero in DA and the Shooter mechanics in ME2.  Btw creating straw-men and red herrings still won't help you especially when insults are involved.

"Entitlement is always bad"

I can only assume that you really do not understand the meaning of the word "entitlement", hence this whole discussion is becoming pointless.

[Isichar]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Are you serious? That has nothing to do with entitlement..

That is entitlement when you include the demand for a completely new ending with those petty insults and chilidish death threats.

I dont recall doing either of those.

hmm...

[Lookout1390]

lol gaming journalism

As long as they keep getting handed checks, they will write whatever their overlords wants them to write.

*cough IGN cough*

[UniqueName001]

Blueprotoss wrote...
Pot calling the kettle black.

Could you clarify this statement?  Because I find myself speculating as to whether you are saying that I am an empty talking head, or that I have a conflict of interest.

Or that I am a kitchen utensil.

Modifié par UniqueName001, 10 juillet 2012 - 11:45 .

[Blueprotoss]

translationninja wrote...

"Entitlement is always bad"

I can only assume that you really do not understand the meaning of the word "entitlement", hence this whole discussion is becoming pointless.

Pot calling the kettle black.

[Blueprotoss]

Isichar wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Are you serious? That has nothing to do with entitlement..

That is entitlement when you include the demand for a completely new ending with those petty insults and chilidish death threats.

I dont recall doing either of those.

hmm...

Thats a good thing.

[Blueprotoss]

UniqueName001 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
Pot calling the kettle black.

Could you clarify this statement?  Because I find myself speculating as to whether you are saying that I am an empty talking head, or that I have a conflict of interest.

Or that I am a kitchen utensil.

The point is that most Gaming Journalist like G4 aren't biased towards certain unlike IGN while this also happens with movie critics like how Ebert is normally unbiased while Rotten Tomatoes are usually biased.  Its really useless to complain about critics especially when its just another opinion and you're the one thats buying the game.  Btw the reason why Xplay doesn't make fun of Cliffy B is the same here why they insult Peter Molyneaux because of a thing called professionalism.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 11 juillet 2012 - 12:33 .

[Novate]

Blueprotoss wrote...

SparkyRich wrote...

Game developers are toy-makers of the 21st century. A toy is meant to be played with, handled, tossed around, perhaps chewed on and thoroughly enjoyed by the target market. A toy can be a work of art, but is it integral to its purpose? I think not. Stating that art is more important than fun in a game is ludicrous at best. If you're going that direction, make a movie - it's less embarrassing if you fail.

I understand the statements made about it being difficult to plan for every eventuality when making a story-driven series like Mass Effect, but you should at least have a general outline to follow. Direct admissions of absolute failure to plan almost anything (well, they didn't say they "failed to plan," but it sounded like it to me) explain how the mess that is the ending occurred. "Now you will pay for your lack of vision...."

I'm sure you wouldn't have an easy job when you have over 65,000 plotlines to work from a playthrough from the beginning of ME1 to the end of ME3.

Not trying to bump this thread, but I can't agree with you if your whole point throught out your argument is that "IT WAS TOO HARD FOR THE DEVELOPERS"
ME1 was popular because it introduced an SCIFI version of KOTOR, ME2 solidified Mass Effect as an IP by introducing that your Decisions you have made from ME1 will be carried over to ME2, it was intriguing, it was amazing, it was innovative and it made you want to buy ME1 just so that you have your personal ME2 gameplay.

But because its too hard to do that for ME3, you are saying that its okay for developers whom developed the technique and established themself as an AAA maker because of that technique, to say Screw that, and give you an medicore game. And you are okay with that decision???
As a gamer, as a Consumer, how can you possibly say that and be okay with it.

Not only did the interviews and panels they have, described that this same technique will be used and carried over, and that 10x the amount of decisions will be carried over to the final Game. As Gamers we were hyped to no end, imagining the results of all the different combinations. We were so excited that when we finally have the game, we wanted to play it through multiple times.

What we got, is a very bad Precedent , we can't have developers that promises one thing and give another. Only waiting for the consumers to find out after they have spent hours getting to the end and have an HUGE WTF ??? on their heads.

[UniqueName001]

Blueprotoss wrote...
The point is that most Gaming Journalist like G4 aren't biased towards certain unlike IGN while this also happens with movie critics like how Ebert is normally unbiased while Rotten Tomatoes are usually biased.  Its really useless to complain about critics especially when its just another opinion and you're the one thats buying the game.  Btw the reason why Xplay doesn't make fun of Cliffy B is the same here why they insult Peter Molyneaux because of a thing called professionalism.

I'm not sure how professionalism relates to insulting some people and not others, but that is beside the point.  My point was that XPlay is biased, they are biased towards the developers and against the consumers, and because of the direction of that bias that I don't feel the need to pay attention to them anymore.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not sure that the opinions of professional game reviewers (specifically, "professional" in that they are being paid to do the reviews) are actually their own opinions, and not just the opinions that are best for their bottom line.

[UniqueName001]

Novate wrote...
What we got, is a very bad Precedent , we can't have developers that promises one thing and give another. Only waiting for the consumers to find out after they have spent hours getting to the end and have an HUGE WTF ??? on their heads.

This.

The only bad precedent being set here is that developers can make claims in pre-release press that turn out to be false.

[translationninja]

Blueprotoss wrote...

translationninja wrote...

"Entitlement is always bad"

I can only assume that you really do not understand the meaning of the word "entitlement", hence this whole discussion is becoming pointless.

Pot calling the kettle black.

You know, aside from not knowing the meaning of the word "entitlement" you are also not aware of the meaning of "pot calling the kettle black"

You're funny...

[Blueprotoss]

UniqueName001 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
The point is that most Gaming Journalist like G4 aren't biased towards certain unlike IGN while this also happens with movie critics like how Ebert is normally unbiased while Rotten Tomatoes are usually biased.  Its really useless to complain about critics especially when its just another opinion and you're the one thats buying the game.  Btw the reason why Xplay doesn't make fun of Cliffy B is the same here why they insult Peter Molyneaux because of a thing called professionalism.

I'm not sure how professionalism relates to insulting some people and not others, but that is beside the point.  My point was that XPlay is biased, they are biased towards the developers and against the consumers, and because of the direction of that bias that I don't feel the need to pay attention to them anymore.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not sure that the opinions of professional game reviewers (specifically, "professional" in that they are being paid to do the reviews) are actually their own opinions, and not just the opinions that are best for their bottom line.

Pot calling the kettle black and you don't realize that reviews are just opinions just like you have opinions even when they're biased.  Btw you don't clear don't have any professionalism.

UniqueName001 wrote...

Novate wrote...
What we got, is a very bad Precedent , we can't have developers that promises one thing and give another. Only waiting for the consumers to find out after they have spent hours getting to the end and have an HUGE WTF ??? on their heads. 

This.

The only bad precedent being set here is that developers can make claims in pre-release press that turn out to be false.

Lieing to make yourself feel better is a bad precedent and your "bad precedent" is just a red herring. 

[Blueprotoss]

translationninja wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

translationninja wrote...

"Entitlement is always bad"

I can only assume that you really do not understand the meaning of the word "entitlement", hence this whole discussion is becoming pointless.

Pot calling the kettle black.

You know, aside from not knowing the meaning of the word "entitlement" you are also not aware of the meaning of "pot calling the kettle black"

You're funny...

I do know what entitlement means and that word is never a good thing.  Btw you should know the definitions of specific words instead of resorting to insult when you don't know what you're talking about.