393 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

iakus wrote...

"Once you start killing friends, war turns into murder"

The Galaxy > EDI

She can be rebuilt at least, in some capacity. It doesn't make it right, but this is the choice I make, and one that my Shepard will have to live with.

And it's the choice I make, because the others are just plain worse.

But the fact that those words come out of Commander Shepard's mouth demonstrates just how much Bioware's been jerking around their fans with these emotionally manipulative garbage endings.

[Jamie9]

hoodaticus wrote...
Yes, I went to law school too.  Outside of the justice system, common people tend to replace "unlawful" with "unjustified", and war arguably meets that definition on a mass scale.

War generally yes, but it doesn't apply to the Reaper War.

It's just self-defense in the Reaper War.

Also, I've never been to law school. Though I have read up on what's on the first couple of semesters (generally) on the curriculum, out of interest. It's good to know the basics on the law and the justice system anyway.

[Ryzaki]

mauro2222 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

EDI can blow chunks. <_< Joker with her.

Muahaha!

Not in my game! I shoot the tube! 

[me308f1cd5c]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Everyone in your cycle knew that they were going to die. All the races that joined in on the Victory Fleet and the crucible research did so not knowing what the crucible was going to do but prepared to live with the consequences if it saved them from the Reapers. They all were consenting to having the DNA rewritten. Granted, pre-spaceflight races and such had no clue what was going on and didn't consent to anything they were overruled anyway. Democracy in action.

They were not giving consent.


Remember, there is plenty of life in the Milky Way that wasn't near the Crucible nor apart of the Victory Fleet, so for sure this life did NOT given consent.

Modifié par me308f1cd5c, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:49 .

[clennon8]

silentassassin264 wrote...

Everyone in your cycle knew that they were going to die. All the races that joined in on the Victory Fleet and the crucible research did so not knowing what the crucible was going to do but prepared to live with the consequences if it saved them from the Reapers. They all were consenting to having the DNA rewritten. Granted, pre-spaceflight races and such had no clue what was going on and didn't consent to anything they were overruled anyway. Democracy in action.

They most certainly were NOT consenting to having their DNA rewritten.  They thought the Crucible was going to destroy the Reapers, or lead to their destruction.  And even if you insist on saying that they did in fact implictly consent to a DNA rewrite, what about all the other quadrillions of life forms in the galaxy? Most of whom don't even know what the hell is going on?  No, your argument is a complete non-starter.

[hoodaticus]

Taboo-XX wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...War is murder.

Murder is the premeditated unlawful killing of another person. Within that, you can actually kill a guilty person. That's vengeance, and if there's no other way, justice too.

Yes, I went to law school too.  Outside of the justice system, common people tend to replace "unlawful" with "unjustified", and war arguably meets that definition on a mass scale.

Father is a lawyer. Same principle applies.

You "murder" people in war as well.

No has the right to "order" you to kill someone.

But someone had to stop Hitler. People had to die to make that happen.

Unethical, but it saves future lives.

Exactly.  Even in Christianity, moral relativism is enshrined.  You can break rules for the greater good and not sin in doing so (like breaking the sabbath to save a life).  You're supposed to use your head and do the most good you can.

Murder is justifiable to prevent even more murder.

Modifié par hoodaticus, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:50 .

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman9999

well i was making a joke for the most part, i cannot find a video of it, but it is edi's response to you siding with the quarians

she doesn't take into account the innocent lives that would be lost on the quarian side, she is just pissed you didn't side with the synthetics. is how she came off for me,

But the fault of the lost of inncoent lives are in the hands of the admerals that ordered the fleets to attack. They even attached guns on there lives ships.Both sides are innocent. It's the quarian admeral who are at fault for forcing the conflict with  the geth. The geth didn't force the qurians to bring armed live ships to the battle, and they are just going to let them kill them with them?
The quarians did not even need to fight the geth.

Modifié par dreman9999, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:51 .

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers arn't evil. They are just machines doing what theyare programed to do.
Add it would be a better form of justice to control them and not force a new state of life on every one.

Well aware. The Catalyst is the "evil" one, and even he is just an AI that was terribly programmed and has become overzealous in fulfilling it's directives.

Control isn't justice for the Reapers because you're controlling them, just as the Catalyst did. It's the same level of wrong morally.

Although I don't want to turn this thread into a Synthesis thread, everything added in Synthesis is completely optional. It HAS to work that way. Synthetic traits are all activated, by nature, so it's optional.

The catalyst is the reapers.If you want to fine tune it even moreit also is not evil. It also isjust doing what it is programed to do.

even if they are just doing what they were programmed for, not gonna let them continue on doing it. or risk them doing it again. my shepard will accept the geths deaths , besides those motherf*ckers killed jenkins

[RadicalDisconnect]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

THEN META GAME. ENSURE YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE.

TOO ****ING BAD BIOWARE.

What is this... meta-gaming? My Shepards don't know how to do this.

Meta-gaming is gaming the game (obviously).  The Geth can't be killed by Destroy if the Quarians already took care of them.  I don't know how to get rid of EDI though.

edi's response to you destroy the geth just shows how much of a machine she is.    she didn't care that siding with the geth would kill millions of innocent children. CHILDREN. she only cared that you didn't side with a synthetic race. and thinks you are racist for it

Yeah, after that conversation I felt a lot less guilty about my plan to kill her off.

Video of this please and why are we forcing our morals on a machine?

I can't be expected to find a video of every last conversation permutation in the game; if you want to see it, just side with the quarians, talk to Joker and EDI following that, and choose the bottom response.

Yes, and in that response, EDI stated that the Quarian admirals are also responsible for endangering children by arming liveships and civilian ships. EDI has shown to be careless about civilian casualties. She simply pointed out that the Quarian admirals are also responsible.

Modifié par RadicalDisconnect, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:51 .

[mauro2222]

Ryzaki wrote...
Not in my game! I shoot the tube! 

You can't destroy EDI's sexbot

[dreman9999]

ghost9191 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
The reapers arn't evil. They are just machines doing what theyare programed to do.
Add it would be a better form of justice to control them and not force a new state of life on every one.

Well aware. The Catalyst is the "evil" one, and even he is just an AI that was terribly programmed and has become overzealous in fulfilling it's directives.

Control isn't justice for the Reapers because you're controlling them, just as the Catalyst did. It's the same level of wrong morally.

Although I don't want to turn this thread into a Synthesis thread, everything added in Synthesis is completely optional. It HAS to work that way. Synthetic traits are all activated, by nature, so it's optional.

The catalyst is the reapers.If you want to fine tune it even moreit also is not evil. It also isjust doing what it is programed to do.

even if they are just doing what they were programmed for, not gonna let them continue on doing it. or risk them doing it again. my shepard will accept the geths deaths , besides those motherf*ckers killed jenkins

And that I can agree with.

[Iakus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

THEN META GAME. ENSURE YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE.

TOO ****ING BAD BIOWARE.

What is this... meta-gaming? My Shepards don't know how to do this.

Meta-gaming is gaming the game (obviously).  The Geth can't be killed by Destroy if the Quarians already took care of them.  I don't know how to get rid of EDI though.

edi's response to you destroy the geth just shows how much of a machine she is.    she didn't care that siding with the geth would kill millions of innocent children. CHILDREN. she only cared that you didn't side with a synthetic race. and thinks you are racist for it

Yeah, after that conversation I felt a lot less guilty about my plan to kill her off.

Video of this please and why are we forcing our morals on a machine?

[Ryzaki]

mauro2222 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Not in my game! I shoot the tube! 

You can't destroy EDI's sexbot

..If Joker screws that thing despite EDI being gone he's more pathetic and creepy than I originally thought.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:51 .

[Taboo]

hoodaticus wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...War is murder.

Murder is the premeditated unlawful killing of another person. Within that, you can actually kill a guilty person. That's vengeance, and if there's no other way, justice too.

Yes, I went to law school too.  Outside of the justice system, common people tend to replace "unlawful" with "unjustified", and war arguably meets that definition on a mass scale.

Father is a lawyer. Same principle applies.

You "murder" people in war as well.

No has the right to "order" you to kill someone.

But someone had to stop Hitler. People had to die to make that happen.

Unethical, but it saves future lives.

Exactly.  Even in Christianity, moral relativism is enshrined.  You can break rules for the greater good and not sin in doing so (like breaking the sabbath to save a life).  You're supposed to use your head and do the most good you can.

Murder is justified to prevent even more murder.

I don't choose Destroy because I survive. I choose it because I think it is the most ethical. But that doesn't mean I plan on hiding from what I've done either.

Miranda can help, but I don't see an all sunshine and daises endings for my Shepard.

Sometimes the sacrifice is mental, not physical.

[ghost9191]

dreman9999 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

@dreman9999

well i was making a joke for the most part, i cannot find a video of it, but it is edi's response to you siding with the quarians

she doesn't take into account the innocent lives that would be lost on the quarian side, she is just pissed you didn't side with the synthetics. is how she came off for me,

But the fault of the lost of inncoent live are in the hads of the admerals that ordered the fleets attack. They even attached guns on there lives ships.Both sides are innocent. It's the quarian admeral who are at fault for forcing the conflict with  the geth. The geth didn't force the qurians to bring armed live ships to the battle, and they are just going to let them lill them with them?
The quarians did not even need to fight the geth.

yes and i see that, but i will not condemn those innocents to death because of some dumba*s admirals. the geth sided with the reapers though, whatever the reasons, we are at war with the reapers in me3 so that means that we are at war with the geth.

in short i will not sacrifice innocent children and such to save a race of machines that have always tried to kill me and my crew. besides legion but that is only 1 or 1 thousand

[dreman9999]

iakus wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

THEN META GAME. ENSURE YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE.

TOO ****ING BAD BIOWARE.

What is this... meta-gaming? My Shepards don't know how to do this.

Meta-gaming is gaming the game (obviously).  The Geth can't be killed by Destroy if the Quarians already took care of them.  I don't know how to get rid of EDI though.

edi's response to you destroy the geth just shows how much of a machine she is.    she didn't care that siding with the geth would kill millions of innocent children. CHILDREN. she only cared that you didn't side with a synthetic race. and thinks you are racist for it

Yeah, after that conversation I felt a lot less guilty about my plan to kill her off.

Video of this please and why are we forcing our morals on a machine?

Ok then...She's right. 

[Jamie9]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Which doesn't invalidate Shepard's point in any way. Either way, EDI came off as being overly passive-aggressive and unreasonable to me, and made it that much easier for my Shepard to not care about her inevitable demise by red space magic.

It didn't help that EDI was litterally the only person on the entire ship who had this particular opinion.

That's because of how the two paths were treat.

If you choose to save the Geth, Shepard still tries to get the Quarians to back down.

If you choose to save the Quarians, Shepard allows the Quarians to annihilate the Geth.

[dreman9999]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

THEN META GAME. ENSURE YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE.

TOO ****ING BAD BIOWARE.

What is this... meta-gaming? My Shepards don't know how to do this.

Meta-gaming is gaming the game (obviously).  The Geth can't be killed by Destroy if the Quarians already took care of them.  I don't know how to get rid of EDI though.

edi's response to you destroy the geth just shows how much of a machine she is.    she didn't care that siding with the geth would kill millions of innocent children. CHILDREN. she only cared that you didn't side with a synthetic race. and thinks you are racist for it

Yeah, after that conversation I felt a lot less guilty about my plan to kill her off.

If you point that out, she makes the point that the Quarian admirals are also responsible for endangering their non-combatants by arming civilian ships.

Which doesn't invalidate Shepard's point in any way. Either way, EDI came off as being overly passive-aggressive and unreasonable to me, and made it that much easier for my Shepard to not care about her inevitable demise by red space magic.

It didn't help that EDI was litterally the only person on the entire ship who had this particular opinion.

I'm sorry...The geth were to let the quarian kill them off because quarians bought there families, who are armed with weapons, to war?

[MyChemicalBromance]

If you believe in Good and Evil then I suggest you go back to Power Rangers.

[Iakus]

 Destroy ending Shepard needs the opportunity for a scene like this regarding the synthetics:

Chat with Ghorek

Modifié par iakus, 10 juillet 2012 - 02:05 .

[Ryzaki]

dreman9999 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

RadicalDisconnect wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

THEN META GAME. ENSURE YOU CAN'T MAKE PEACE.

TOO ****ING BAD BIOWARE.

What is this... meta-gaming? My Shepards don't know how to do this.

Meta-gaming is gaming the game (obviously).  The Geth can't be killed by Destroy if the Quarians already took care of them.  I don't know how to get rid of EDI though.

edi's response to you destroy the geth just shows how much of a machine she is.    she didn't care that siding with the geth would kill millions of innocent children. CHILDREN. she only cared that you didn't side with a synthetic race. and thinks you are racist for it

Yeah, after that conversation I felt a lot less guilty about my plan to kill her off.

If you point that out, she makes the point that the Quarian admirals are also responsible for endangering their non-combatants by arming civilian ships.

Which doesn't invalidate Shepard's point in any way. Either way, EDI came off as being overly passive-aggressive and unreasonable to me, and made it that much easier for my Shepard to not care about her inevitable demise by red space magic.

It didn't help that EDI was litterally the only person on the entire ship who had this particular opinion.

I'm sorry...The geth were to let the quarian kill them off because quarians bought there families, who are armed with weapons, to war?

...I actually agree with you on something.

Sad but I don't blame the Geth one bit for blowing up the liveships in that situation. You don't get to put guns and weapons on your kids schoolbus have them used to kill others then cry victim when someone blows the bus up.

OH well Geth win in my game. *huggles Geth close*

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:59 .

[hoodaticus]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

If you believe in Good and Evil then I suggest you go back to Power Rangers.

OT: Your screenname is awesome and reminds me of my life from 18-27.  Just fyi.

I believe in Good and Evil as Platonic Forms that exist in the heavens somewhere.  Down here it's never so simple.

Modifié par hoodaticus, 10 juillet 2012 - 01:59 .

[me308f1cd5c]

MyChemicalBromance wrote...

If you believe in Good and Evil then I suggest you go back to Power Rangers.

Didn't know the belief in good and evil is some childish old fashioned notion.

[silentassassin264]

me308f1cd5c wrote...

silentassassin264 wrote...

Everyone in your cycle knew that they were going to die. All the races that joined in on the Victory Fleet and the crucible research did so not knowing what the crucible was going to do but prepared to live with the consequences if it saved them from the Reapers. They all were consenting to having the DNA rewritten. Granted, pre-spaceflight races and such had no clue what was going on and didn't consent to anything they were overruled anyway. Democracy in action.

They were not giving consent.


Remember, there is plenty of life in the Milky Way that wasn't near the Crucible nor apart of the Victory Fleet, so for sure this life did NOT given consent.

The majority of the sentient life in the galaxy were Asari, Turian, and the other races that joined in your War Assets etc. etc.  When you convince the council to join in (and presumbly others though not explicitly shown) they ask what the Crucible does, you say you have no clue but it is the best shot we've got and they agree.  They are indeed agreeing to firing the Crucible and living with the consequences.  If you can't fire it and live with the consequences, don't use it.