231 réponses à ce sujet

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

Yes it is. Because in the end, that only harms this cycle. The next will be free.

The next cycle will get to be Synthesised, because now the Catalyst knows it is possible he can guide them towards it. On the up-side humans will get a Sovereign-class Reaper and all the other racers will be really jealous 'cos they're all stuck in destroyers.

Synthesis destroys all organic life. FOREVER.

It really doesn't, if you can't think of any objections to Synthesis based on in-game lore it's silly bringing in head-canon that has only the barest resemblence to what happens in-game.

[Vigilant111]

Heeden wrote...

I disagree, Synthesis does the most to preserve the life and freedoms of Sentient beings.

How do you explain that everyone is now shackled by technology?

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

One, informed consent is once again, debatable.  The cutscene shows people acting surprised at the change, but no one appears "violated" (Seriously, you're treating Synthesis like rape). 

It is.
Their reactions are... wholly artificial. Running around happily rebuilding with Reapers in the background?
Yeah let's see. Major Coates spent a huge amount of time camping Big Ben, watching Reapers destroy everything he cared about, killing his comrades and innocent civilians.
But hey he's just fine standing there side-by-side with Reapers! No problems! Reapers are our friends!

Please.

And "removes all organic life"?  I don't see humans turning into geth.  The addition of synthetic components or attributes doesn't make them STOP being organic.  Hybrids, yes.  But are you really arguing they turn fully synthetic?

Hybrids are not fully organic, hence organic life is removed.

And yes, least amount of cost.  Or did you miss the "utilitarian" part of my post?  In Synthesis, nobody dies.  In Refuse, everyone dies.

They stop being who they are. It's worse than death. Their bodies and minds are altered permanently.

Modifié par The Angry One, 10 juillet 2012 - 08:42 .

[Heeden]

Vigilant111 wrote...

How do you explain that everyone is now shackled by technology?

Shackled in what way?

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

The next cycle will get to be Synthesised, because now the Catalyst knows it is possible he can guide them towards it. On the up-side humans will get a Sovereign-class Reaper and all the other racers will be really jealous 'cos they're all stuck in destroyers.

Assumptions.

It really doesn't, if you can't think of any objections to Synthesis based on in-game lore it's silly bringing in head-canon that has only the barest resemblence to what happens in-game.

It creates hybrids. Organic life is gone. But then you're the one who thinks you can integrate foreign matter into DNA and not alter it.

[RiouHotaru]

Again, how is it "shackled"?

At this point I honestly do sympathize with Heeden and Iedra. I'm a DESTROY proponent and even I think everyone only looking at Synthesis for it's imagined negatives is getting ridiculous. It's practically a witch-hunt.

[Romaka]

Heeden wrote...

Synthesis destroys all organic life. FOREVER.

It really doesn't, if you can't think of any objections to Synthesis based on in-game lore it's silly bringing in head-canon that has only the barest resemblence to what happens in-game.

I am under the impression that that is the exact case.  The beam shoots out and covers the entire galaxy.  That would lead one to believe all life is now hybridized.  If that is the case then organics no longer exist.  Hybrid life does but pure organic does not.   My opinion.

[The Angry One]

lol, witch-hunt. I critcise synthesis, and I do so harshly, because it's despicable.

Synthesis supporters? They attack ME, directly. The things it's hardline promoters like Ieldra and Atreiya have said to me are appalling. But hey no, that's okay. Personal attacks are apparently fine now. Criticising the actual ending? That's a witch-hunt.

[Heeden]

Romaka wrote...

I am under the impression that that is the exact case.  The beam shoots out and covers the entire galaxy.  That would lead one to believe all life is now hybridized.  If that is the case then organics no longer exist.  Hybrid life does but pure organic does not.   My opinion.

I don't see Synthesis hybridising; the green energy augments our form and gives us new capabilities but it doesn't change what is already there.

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

lol, witch-hunt. I critcise synthesis, and I do so harshly, because it's despicable.

Synthesis supporters? They attack ME, directly. The things it's hardline promoters like Ieldra and Atreiya have said to me are appalling. But hey no, that's okay. Personal attacks are apparently fine now. Criticising the actual ending? That's a witch-hunt.

Your posts stand out because they tend to be most amusing, probably because you're so angry.

[Vigilant111]

Heeden wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

How do you explain that everyone is now shackled by technology?

Shackled in what way?

Shackled as in you are forced to use it unconsciously

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

lol, witch-hunt. I critcise synthesis, and I do so harshly, because it's despicable.

Synthesis supporters? They attack ME, directly. The things it's hardline promoters like Ieldra and Atreiya have said to me are appalling. But hey no, that's okay. Personal attacks are apparently fine now. Criticising the actual ending? That's a witch-hunt.

Your posts stand out because they tend to be most amusing, probably because you're so angry.

How is that a justification for attacking the person and not the argument again?

[mass perfection]

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

I am under the impression that that is the exact case.  The beam shoots out and covers the entire galaxy.  That would lead one to believe all life is now hybridized.  If that is the case then organics no longer exist.  Hybrid life does but pure organic does not.   My opinion.

I don't see Synthesis hybridising; the green energy augments our form and gives us new capabilities but it doesn't change what is already there.

Then how come EDI said the line between organic and synthetic dissappear?Only means you're wiping them out by replacing them with the hybrids.

[Heeden]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, how is it "shackled"?

At this point I honestly do sympathize with Heeden and Iedra. I'm a DESTROY proponent and even I think everyone only looking at Synthesis for it's imagined negatives is getting ridiculous. It's practically a witch-hunt.

Believe it or not, my Shep chose destroy too!

[mass perfection]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Again, how is it "shackled"?

At this point I honestly do sympathize with Heeden and Iedra. I'm a DESTROY proponent and even I think everyone only looking at Synthesis for it's imagined negatives is getting ridiculous. It's practically a witch-hunt.

You're forcing it on everyone.

[Heeden]

mass perfection wrote...

Then how come EDI said the line between organic and synthetic dissappear?Only means you're wiping them out by replacing them with the hybrids.

No, it means they've been given the tools to understand each other and as society continues to develpo the line between synths and orgs starts to disappear.

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

How is that a justification for attacking the person and not the argument again?

Your arguments only really make sense in your own head-canon, it's tough to argue against things you're just making up and the way you continually repeat them as if it will magically make them part of the game can get exasperating.

[Romaka]

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

I am under the impression that that is the exact case.  The beam shoots out and covers the entire galaxy.  That would lead one to believe all life is now hybridized.  If that is the case then organics no longer exist.  Hybrid life does but pure organic does not.   My opinion.

I don't see Synthesis hybridising; the green energy augments our form and gives us new capabilities but it doesn't change what is already there.

Then how do you explain what happens to Synthetics?  They are no longer pure Synthetic anymore.

[Monarchos915]

I can imagine Shepard by the crucible about to make his choice when he manages to ring up every race in the galaxy to ask for their opinion.

Shepard: "hey guys! so i met the reapers master and he's giving me three choices to end this war, check em out!"

"So the first lets me become an AI and will give me complete control of the reapers and I will be able to do whatever I want with the most powerful force in the galaxy and I'll prreeeeetty much be a God deciding who lives and dies, I swear I'll use it for good!...and everyone lives (for the foreseeable future)"

Rest of the galaxy: "Yeeeeeeah, I'm not sure if I'm entirely comfortable with you having that much power, and our lives hanging by your every decision"

Shepard: "Okay guyz, that's fair enough. How about this one? It says I can destroy all the reapers!"

Rest of galaxy: "OOOHHHH that sounds good, do it do it do it!"

Shepard: "BUT it'll kill the geth and edi and the virtual aliens and any and all other synthetic life forms"

Geth: "WOAH WOAH WOAH! Slow down there Shep, we really would prefer it if we didn't have to die, I mean we're working with organics for like the first time ever and now you all want to kill us? WTF?"

Shepard: "okay, i see where you are coming from geth friends. This last one is called Synthesis, and it gets pretty good, check it out"

"So all organics will now be able to fully integrate with synthetic technology, which means you all can like play video games in your mind and stuff, and directly connect your consciousness to all other life in the galaxy"

"Hey krogan! Remember when I sabotaged the genophage cure?! No? Oh well, if I choose this option then you won't have to worry about it at all because this will pretty much eliminate every disease from every organic. And krogan, you'll have access to a vast array of previously unavailable knowledge to rebuild your once great civilization"

Krogan: "Hmmm, no more genophage sounds like a pretty good deal..."

Shepard: "Salarians! You know how y'all are crazy smart?!?! Well, you're just about to get WAAAAAYYY smarter, and forget your short life spans, you can pretty much live forever know if u want"

"Liara! Remember how you loved learning about about the Protheans?! Well guess what? Now you'll have access to the knowledge of EVERY civilization that came before them!"

Liara and the Asari: "Hey that sounds pretty sweet"

Shepard: "Geth! Edi! This one will let you have a full understanding of what it is to be an organic! Just like you guys always wanted! You know, EDI with all your questions about hooking up with Joker and understanding what makes organics tick, well now you'll know exactly!"

"And those cute Geth and Legion, always watching us from afar desperately trying to understand how to approach us without having everyone want to kill you! Worry no more! And best of all guys: YOU WON'T DIE!"

"Quarians! You know those pesky immune systems you guys are always worrying about? BAM! GONE! You'll be free to live wherever you want with or without a suit. And you'll forever reunited with your children, the Geth!"

Quarians: "Keelah se'lai"

"Reapers! All you tormented souls in anguish in Reaper form, well now you'll be free from your eternal hell!!!"

"As a plus everyone's DNA and coding will be augmented with an entirely new framework, but don't worry nothing is getting removed! You all will still be you, with complete memories and experiences and perception, intact and unchanged. Everyone is just "augmented" so to speak"

"So everybody! what do you all think? Of course I could always reject all these options and we can all suffer a slow, painful, agonizing death at the hands/claws/tentacles of the Reapers, with all that in mind what do you all say?"

[Zeppex]

I think Synthesis is fundamentally wrong on a massive scale. You take freewill which is a right of a living beings away, and I can not do that. Not to mention the consequences of the event. What happens to people in a remote world, who are not capable of space flight, very primitive, and they awaken to being half synthetic? Also unless it changes mental capacity where people would be a collective mind, what happens to the people who oppose what happened to them? Tough luck, suicide?

Also I highly doubt synthesis is final evolution. Unless the energies of synthesis remain in the galaxy forever. One day a race will spawn that will be purely organic or one will be created that is purely synthetic, and then what another cycle of BS?

[Heeden]

Romaka wrote...

Then how do you explain what happens to Synthetics?  They are no longer pure Synthetic anymore.

Synthesis allows organics to become fully integrated with technology, this in turn allows Synthetics to fully understand organics. Post-EC the green energy doesn't effect Synthetics directly.

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

How is that a justification for attacking the person and not the argument again?

Your arguments only really make sense in your own head-canon, it's tough to argue against things you're just making up and the way you continually repeat them as if it will magically make them part of the game can get exasperating.

I use evidence from the game, not headcanon. You're the one headcanoning that synthesis doesn't change anyone.
They insult me because I've defeated their vision of a perfect utopia time and again, and that's how they handle being argued against.

[Romaka]

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

Then how do you explain what happens to Synthetics?  They are no longer pure Synthetic anymore.

Synthesis allows organics to become fully integrated with technology, this in turn allows Synthetics to fully understand organics. Post-EC the green energy doesn't effect Synthetics directly.

How would organics becoming integrated with technology allow pure technology to understand organics without any change?

[mass perfection]

Monarchos915 wrote...

I can imagine Shepard by the crucible about to make his choice when he manages to ring up every race in the galaxy to ask for their opinion.

Shepard: "hey guys! so i met the reapers master and he's giving me three choices to end this war, check em out!"

"So the first lets me become an AI and will give me complete control of the reapers and I will be able to do whatever I want with the most powerful force in the galaxy and I'll prreeeeetty much be a God deciding who lives and dies, I swear I'll use it for good!...and everyone lives (for the foreseeable future)"

Rest of the galaxy: "Yeeeeeeah, I'm not sure if I'm entirely comfortable with you having that much power, and our lives hanging by your every decision"

Shepard: "Okay guyz, that's fair enough. How about this one? It says I can destroy all the reapers!"

Rest of galaxy: "OOOHHHH that sounds good, do it do it do it!"

Shepard: "BUT it'll kill the geth and edi and the virtual aliens and any and all other synthetic life forms"

Geth: "WOAH WOAH WOAH! Slow down there Shep, we really would prefer it if we didn't have to die, I mean we're working with organics for like the first time ever and now you all want to kill us? WTF?"

Shepard: "okay, i see where you are coming from geth friends. This last one is called Synthesis, and it gets pretty good, check it out"

"So all organics will now be able to fully integrate with synthetic technology, which means you all can like play video games in your mind and stuff, and directly connect your consciousness to all other life in the galaxy"

"Hey krogan! Remember when I sabotaged the genophage cure?! No? Oh well, if I choose this option then you won't have to worry about it at all because this will pretty much eliminate every disease from every organic. And krogan, you'll have access to a vast array of previously unavailable knowledge to rebuild your once great civilization"

Krogan: "Hmmm, no more genophage sounds like a pretty good deal..."

Shepard: "Salarians! You know how y'all are crazy smart?!?! Well, you're just about to get WAAAAAYYY smarter, and forget your short life spans, you can pretty much live forever know if u want"

"Liara! Remember how you loved learning about about the Protheans?! Well guess what? Now you'll have access to the knowledge of EVERY civilization that came before them!"

Liara and the Asari: "Hey that sounds pretty sweet"

Shepard: "Geth! Edi! This one will let you have a full understanding of what it is to be an organic! Just like you guys always wanted! You know, EDI with all your questions about hooking up with Joker and understanding what makes organics tick, well now you'll know exactly!"

"And those cute Geth and Legion, always watching us from afar desperately trying to understand how to approach us without having everyone want to kill you! Worry no more! And best of all guys: YOU WON'T DIE!"

"Quarians! You know those pesky immune systems you guys are always worrying about? BAM! GONE! You'll be free to live wherever you want with or without a suit. And you'll forever reunited with your children, the Geth!"

Quarians: "Keelah se'lai"

"Reapers! All you tormented souls in anguish in Reaper form, well now you'll be free from your eternal hell!!!"

"As a plus everyone's DNA and coding will be augmented with an entirely new framework, but don't worry nothing is getting removed! You all will still be you, with complete memories and experiences and perception, intact and unchanged. Everyone is just "augmented" so to speak"

"So everybody! what do you all think? Of course I could always reject all these options and we can all suffer a slow, painful, agonizing death at the hands/claws/tentacles of the Reapers, with all that in mind what do you all say?"

Wouldn't that still make Husks ans stuff aware and they'll likely hate the monster they've become?

[RiouHotaru]

The Angry One wrote...

It is.
Their reactions are... wholly artificial. Running around happily rebuilding with Reapers in the background?
Yeah let's see. Major Coates spent a huge amount of time camping Big Ben, watching Reapers destroy everything he cared about, killing his comrades and innocent civilians.
But hey he's just fine standing there side-by-side with Reapers! No problems! Reapers are our friends!

Please.

Considering the circumstances? (Reapers are shackled to the Catalyst without an understanding of how what they do effects organics.  Again, Harbinger and the Rannoch Reaper make it seem like we should welcome their change)  I'm sure there'd be hesistation.  I'm pretty sure for the first year or so, there was a ridiculous amount of tension while everything was sorted out.

But you'd be surprised how things change when you reach a communicative understanding.  But!  Don't bother rebuking, I know what you'll say.

"No, it wouldn't change anything."

Hybrids are not fully organic, hence organic life is removed.

Being partially organic still makes you organic.  Or is Shepard no longer considered organic due to the sheer number of cybernetics?

They stop being who they are. It's worse than death. Their bodies and minds are altered permanently.

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.