231 réponses à ce sujet

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

I use evidence from the game, not headcanon. You're the one headcanoning that synthesis doesn't change anyone.
They insult me because I've defeated their vision of a perfect utopia time and again, and that's how they handle being argued against.

Well, I suppose that's one way of looking at it  >.>

[mass perfection]

RiouHotaru wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

It is.
Their reactions are... wholly artificial. Running around happily rebuilding with Reapers in the background?
Yeah let's see. Major Coates spent a huge amount of time camping Big Ben, watching Reapers destroy everything he cared about, killing his comrades and innocent civilians.
But hey he's just fine standing there side-by-side with Reapers! No problems! Reapers are our friends!

Please.

Considering the circumstances? (Reapers are shackled to the Catalyst without an understanding of how what they do effects organics.  Again, Harbinger and the Rannoch Reaper make it seem like we should welcome their change)  I'm sure there'd be hesistation.  I'm pretty sure for the first year or so, there was a ridiculous amount of tension while everything was sorted out.

But you'd be surprised how things change when you reach a communicative understanding.  But!  Don't bother rebuking, I know what you'll say.

"No, it wouldn't change anything."

Hybrids are not fully organic, hence organic life is removed.

Being partially organic still makes you organic.  Or is Shepard no longer considered organic due to the sheer number of cybernetics?

They stop being who they are. It's worse than death. Their bodies and minds are altered permanently.

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.

Wouldn't an EMP wipe them all out?

[Heeden]

Romaka wrote...

How would organics becoming integrated with technology allow pure technology to understand organics without any change?

Because we'll be able to fully integrate with them, share information properly instead of using inefficient means like sound (Legion and EDI have a conversation about the limits of "speech" in ME2).

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.

So why is everyone just happily standing around with Reapers?

[Romaka]

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.

If everyone was truly themselves do you honestly think everyone would just stop fighting and go "Let's all work together and forget everything that happened before."

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

So why is everyone just happily standing around with Reapers?

They're enjoying the wonderful opportunities of not being dead?

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

How would organics becoming integrated with technology allow pure technology to understand organics without any change?

Because we'll be able to fully integrate with them, share information properly instead of using inefficient means like sound (Legion and EDI have a conversation about the limits of "speech" in ME2).

Speaking of headcanon...
Also, if that's so. Then gee I hope everyone also gets firewalls as strong as EDI's. Because they'll need them.

Heeden wrote...

They're enjoying the wonderful opportunities of not being dead?

While standing next to the things that brutally murdered or mutilated their friends and loved ones.

Modifié par The Angry One, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:07 .

[mass perfection]

Romaka wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.

If everyone was truly themselves do you honestly think everyone would just stop fighting and go "Let's all work together and forget everything that happened before."

This.

[Romaka]

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

How would organics becoming integrated with technology allow pure technology to understand organics without any change?

Because we'll be able to fully integrate with them, share information properly instead of using inefficient means like sound (Legion and EDI have a conversation about the limits of "speech" in ME2).

How would that in any way allow synthetics to understand organics?  If there is no change in synthetics then how would they be able to understand the information being shared with them through organics unless they already had that ability prior to Synthesis?

[Monarchos915]

The Angry One wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.

So why is everyone just happily standing around with Reapers?

Because, while I'm sure there was an initial shock to the the Reapers chillin around every one all non-chalant and all, they are no longer trying to harvest them and slaughter them.

They are now the embodiement of billions of souls, freed from their endless torment, and they too have been freed from the cycle. I'd imagine that the since everyone now has the capabilty to connect minds and share information with everyone else at will, old hatreds and prejudices based on limited experience and the inability to "walk in another's shoes" will die quickly. New perceptions are available to the individual now, and it will be obvious the reapers are no longer an existential threat.

[Vigilant111]

Romaka wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.

If everyone was truly themselves do you honestly think everyone would just stop fighting and go "Let's all work together and forget everything that happened before."

I think synthesis actually would make organic/organic conflicts worse, the aftermath would be more devastating than ever before, this would not happen only if organic do not use this advanced technology to develop weapons, and I am not sure if that is possible

Modifié par Vigilant111, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:14 .

[Romaka]

Monarchos915 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

And once again, ending doesn't support that.  Slides show them being themselves.

So why is everyone just happily standing around with Reapers?

Because, while I'm sure there was an initial shock to the the Reapers chillin around every one all non-chalant and all, they are no longer trying to harvest them and slaughter them.

They are now the embodiement of billions of souls, freed from their endless torment, and they too have been freed from the cycle. I'd imagine that the since everyone now has the capabilty to connect minds and share information with everyone else at will, old hatreds and prejudices based on limited experience and the inability to "walk in another's shoes" will die quickly. New perceptions are available to the individual now, and it will be obvious the reapers are no longer an existential threat.

Actually as far as I understand it that would not be the case.  The Catalyst still exists therefore the Catalyst still controls the Reapers.  They are still not free the way I see it.

[Heeden]

The Angry One wrote...

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

How would organics becoming integrated with technology allow pure technology to understand organics without any change?

Because we'll be able to fully integrate with them, share information properly instead of using inefficient means like sound (Legion and EDI have a conversation about the limits of "speech" in ME2).

Speaking of headcanon...
Also, if that's so. Then gee I hope everyone also gets firewalls as strong as EDI's. Because they'll need them.

Okay, just for you, the non-head-canonned version.

Because we'll be able to fully integrate with them, (Legion and
EDI have a conversation about the limits of "speech" in ME2).

As for the fire-wall, I don't know it telepathic mind-hacking is a thing in Mass Effect and can't remember if Javik and Liara mentioned it.

Heeden wrote...

They're enjoying the wonderful opportunities of not being dead?

While standing next to the things that brutally murdered or mutilated their friends and loved ones.

Whilst standing next to newly liberated slaves who are helping the galaxy recover from recent unfortunate events.

[RiouHotaru]

Monarchos915 wrote...

Because, while I'm sure there was an initial shock to the the Reapers chillin around every one all non-chalant and all, they are no longer trying to harvest them and slaughter them.

They are now the embodiement of billions of souls, freed from their endless torment, and they too have been freed from the cycle. I'd imagine that the since everyone now has the capabilty to connect minds and share information with everyone else at will, old hatreds and prejudices based on limited experience and the inability to "walk in another's shoes" will die quickly. New perceptions are available to the individual now, and it will be obvious the reapers are no longer an existential threat.

I agree with this, but watch as TAO labels this as either "ridiculous", "not supported by canon", or just outright calls it headcanon again.

[Heeden]

Vigilant111 wrote...

I think synthesis actually would make organic/organic conflicts worse, the aftermath would be more devastating than ever before, this would not happen only if organic do not use this advanced technology to develop weapons, and I am not sure if that is possible

I think post-Synthesis conflict will be more brutal but also shorter and less frequent thanks to the boost in tech we'll receive.

[The Angry One]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Monarchos915 wrote...

Because, while I'm sure there was an initial shock to the the Reapers chillin around every one all non-chalant and all, they are no longer trying to harvest them and slaughter them.

They are now the embodiement of billions of souls, freed from their endless torment, and they too have been freed from the cycle. I'd imagine that the since everyone now has the capabilty to connect minds and share information with everyone else at will, old hatreds and prejudices based on limited experience and the inability to "walk in another's shoes" will die quickly. New perceptions are available to the individual now, and it will be obvious the reapers are no longer an existential threat.

I agree with this, but watch as TAO labels this as either "ridiculous", "not supported by canon", or just outright calls it headcanon again.

Do forgive me for calling headcanon what it is, and for recognising that normal human beings will not care about the anguish of the giant metal monster that was turning their friends into goo a week ago.

[Vigilant111]

Heeden wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

I think synthesis actually would make organic/organic conflicts worse, the aftermath would be more devastating than ever before, this would not happen only if organic do not use this advanced technology to develop weapons, and I am not sure if that is possible

I think post-Synthesis conflict will be more brutal but also shorter and less frequent thanks to the boost in tech we'll receive.

U mean Krogans wiping out Turians entirely? I don't want that

[Heeden]

Romaka wrote...

How would that in any way allow synthetics to understand organics?  If there is no change in synthetics then how would they be able to understand the information being shared with them through organics unless they already had that ability prior to Synthesis?

Synthetics absolutely have the ability to understand information, it's practically what they are built for. The problem is communicating the information to them which is the problem Synthesis solves.

[Vigilant111]

@everyone: technology is a double edged sword, it is good when used properly, detrimental when you abuse it

[The Angry One]

Heeden wrote...

Okay, just for you, the non-head-canonned version.

Because we'll be able to fully integrate with them, (Legion and
EDI have a conversation about the limits of "speech" in ME2).

So where is the non-headcanon version?

As for the fire-wall, I don't know it telepathic mind-hacking is a thing in Mass Effect and can't remember if Javik and Liara mentioned it.

So now it's telepathic. While fully integrating with AIs. Whatever.

Whilst standing next to newly liberated slaves who are helping the galaxy recover from recent unfortunate events.

Human: "You killed my father. You turned my mother into a husk. You melted my siblings into grey goo. You took away my home. You destroyed my nation. I watched my comrades die to you every single day for MONTHS. You drove me to insanity with indoctrination. YOU TOOK AWAY EVERYTHING I EVER CARED ABOUT AND LEFT NOTHING BUT ASHES IN THEIR WAKE."

Reaper: "The Catalyst made me do it."

Human: "... oh that's okay then. Want to do lunch this Saturday? Go bowling maybe?"

[Heeden]

Vigilant111 wrote...

U mean Krogans wiping out Turians entirely? I don't want that

No, I mean the technology boost will allow military objectives to be secured / denied more rapidly, but also the fact we do all have this lovely new tech means there will be less reasons for conflict.

[Romaka]

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

How would that in any way allow synthetics to understand organics?  If there is no change in synthetics then how would they be able to understand the information being shared with them through organics unless they already had that ability prior to Synthesis?

Synthetics absolutely have the ability to understand information, it's practically what they are built for. The problem is communicating the information to them which is the problem Synthesis solves.

But how would synthetics understand the information?  We are talking emotions and stuff like that.  If synthetics have the ability to understand that prior to synthesis then how does synthesis solve anything except allowing the information to be communicated faster?

[RiouHotaru]

The Angry One wrote...

lol, witch-hunt. I critcise synthesis, and I do so harshly, because it's despicable.

Synthesis supporters? They attack ME, directly. The things it's hardline promoters like Ieldra and Atreiya have said to me are appalling. But hey no, that's okay. Personal attacks are apparently fine now. Criticising the actual ending? That's a witch-hunt.

You criticise it because you personally disagree with it.  Huge difference.  Again, you're not arguing from fact, you're arguing from personal belief and bias.

And really?  You're attacking Heeden by calling everything he/she says "headcanon" and how they're living in a fantasy world and that you're arguing from FACT!

[mass perfection]

Heeden wrote...

Romaka wrote...

How would that in any way allow synthetics to understand organics?  If there is no change in synthetics then how would they be able to understand the information being shared with them through organics unless they already had that ability prior to Synthesis?

Synthetics absolutely have the ability to understand information, it's practically what they are built for. The problem is communicating the information to them which is the problem Synthesis solves.

Don't you think the Geth would like to solve that problem on their own terms?Legion says in ME2 that the Geth want to advance on their own rather than let others (Reapers) advance them.

[RiouHotaru]

The Angry One wrote...

Human: "You killed my father. You turned my mother into a husk. You melted my siblings into grey goo. You took away my home. You destroyed my nation. I watched my comrades die to you every single day for MONTHS. You drove me to insanity with indoctrination. YOU TOOK AWAY EVERYTHING I EVER CARED ABOUT AND LEFT NOTHING BUT ASHES IN THEIR WAKE."

Reaper: "The Catalyst made me do it."

Human: "... oh that's okay then. Want to do lunch this Saturday? Go bowling maybe?"

This is SUCH a strawman and you know it.  Don't EVEN go trivializing it like this.  Yes, there would be a ridiculous amount of tension, but you really think there would never be ANY reconciliation, ever?

(Also, if the man had -really- been drive nuts by indocrination your example wouldn't happen, nitpick, but oh well)

Modifié par RiouHotaru, 10 juillet 2012 - 09:25 .