31 réponses à ce sujet

[Gibb_Shepard]

I'm probably 1 year late to the hate party, but this is the first time i've played DA2 in about a year, so i'm reminded of old frustrations. The moment i found myself frustrated, i turned to the internet for release and sympathy.

The untrustworthy apostate asks if you'd do a favour for him before divulging what that favour is. You can either say "Yes", "No" in an unneedingly aggressive way, or "LOL I DON'T FONDLE ANIMALS". Saying "Yes" even has the insane Anders saying "But you didn't ask for my terms?".

Where is the most obvious option here? Obviously being "What are your terms"? Some might say that, in a round about way, the sarcastic response represents this option. But why must my character make such an uncharacteristic response to display some form of common sense? If you can call a remark about animal fondling such...

This isn't the only instance of this, constantly throughout the game we're presented with dialogue that has you being naively accepting and trustworthy, overly aggressive in your declines, or just ****ting on serious situations with admittedly funny but ultimately pointless remarks. Since i don't want a character that ****s on such serious situations, i feel like i'm using a binary dialogue system. And this is a binary of two extremes. It's damned hard to make a consistent character when you're using a binary dialogue system with two dialogue options that essentially represent two completely different character personalities. 

What we have with DA2's dialogue is essentially a system that focuses your character's 'tude that particular morning, as opposed to a system that focuses on the words spoken.

Maker, please give Bioware the wisdom to overhaul this dialogue system.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 10 juillet 2012 - 11:11 .

[Wulfram]

That "I don't work with children or animals" line annoys me every time.

They probably should have done that as a choice dialogue rather than a tone dialogue. Or just written it so you don't answer before actually getting some sort of explanation.

[wsandista]

Yep. DA2 has a really bad dialogue system(as does ME). If they insist on doing voiced PC, they should try a system like DE:HR.

[Arthur Cousland]

There are many instances where my sarcastic Hawke would look like an a**hole after picking a sarcastic response, where I was expecting a funny response. There is a lot of guesswork involved with picking responses with the dialogue wheel, and only with repeated playthroughs, does the player know what will be said in advance.

For better or worse, I don't see the dialogue wheel going anywhere, so get used to it.

[hero 2]

I agree that a lot of responses didn't seem appropriate but I thought the icons and tone system were a good start, if somewhat limited - hopefully this will be improved in the future and not regressed into silence.

[Fauxnormal]

Oh, FFS. QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

[EpicBoot2daFace]

wsandista wrote...

Yep. DA2 has a really bad dialogue system(as does ME). If they insist on doing voiced PC, they should try a system like DE:HR.

This.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Arthur Cousland wrote...

There are many instances where my sarcastic Hawke would look like an a**hole after picking a sarcastic response, where I was expecting a funny response. There is a lot of guesswork involved with picking responses with the dialogue wheel, and only with repeated playthroughs, does the player know what will be said in advance.

For better or worse, I don't see the dialogue wheel going anywhere, so get used to it.

Although that is a problem, it wasn't really the point of my post. And I don't want the dialogue wheel to go anywhere, I want it to be heavily reworked. MEs wheel iis better than what we got in DA2, as it didn't make the character extremely aggressive when saying "no", and didn't have that blasted sarcastic dialogue option that should really be contextual and not a staple in every goddam conversation. The sarcastic response should be replaced with a "neutral" response as staple in the dialogue wheel.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Dehr is essentially what I want DA to become with the dialogue wheel. Contextual tones, no the same three appearing places they shouldn't be.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 10 juillet 2012 - 04:11 .

[Maclimes]

If I may make a recommendation, they could simply add a fourth spoke to the wheel.

Give you four tones instead of three:

1 - Kind/Generous/Diplomatic
2 - Aggressive/Direct/Angry

These two obviously serve as counterpoints to one another. The "Good v Evil" style angle. So how about...

3 - Sarcastic/Funny/Silly
4 - Wise/Serious/Stoic

The third one, Sarcasm, was the only option for neutrality in DA2, but as the OP says, you end up dismissive and often inappropriate. The fourth option is the answer to that. Add a sort of "calm neutrality" option. Realistically, this is the more "diplomatic" option, and is also more thoughtful, wise, and logical. On his flip side, he would be too serious, too stoic, a real stick-in-the-mud. (Just as each of the others have their bad points).

That's my recommendation for addressing that issue.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

I liked Hawke's sarcastic response to Anders BUT I tend to play as sarcastic t*** Hawke. I see your point that sometimes a neutral response is needed, but wouldn't want it to replace the sarcastic response. I actually think sarcastic Hawke is more of a jerk than aggressive Hawke half of the time. The sarcastic response to the Viscount when his son is dead is the absolute best: "At least it can't get any worse. Not today anyway, its pretty late." Love that Aveline calls Hawke an arse for saying that.

[shadow7warlord]

The dialogue system is the most universally disliked feature of DA2.
If Bioware doesn't change it, they can't say there was no feedback on the matter...

[LolaLei]

Nizaris1 wrote...

"I want to be a dragon"

I don't see the actual line is a sarcastic one, that is "You can show me your trick, it looks useful", it is true, if Flemeth can teach how to be a dragon, that will be useful. If my character is not a mage, Bethany can learn it right away.

Why it is sarcastic and why the line say "I want to be a dragon" while i don't really want to be a dragon, or cannot cast magic, or even can cast magic, or the option to learn dragon form is useful to someone in my party?

Why not make the choice line as "dragon form is useful" and the actual line as "If you can teach me dragon form, i will be in your debt" or "please teach Bethany your dragon form, i will do anything for you"....or something like that and make it more realistic?

It was just Hawke trying to be funny, rather than sarcastic.

[Maclimes]

shadow7warlord wrote...

The dialogue system is the most universally disliked feature of DA2.
If Bioware doesn't change it, they can't say there was no feedback on the matter...

That's ... not even remotely true.

If I had to guess, based on feedback on these boards, that the most universally disliked feature of DA2 was the lack of choice and impact. No matter what you decide, the world goes the same way.

After that, probably the lack of visual resources in the game. Repetition of dungeons and other areas, unchanging companion appearance, limited entirely to one city and it's surrounding areas.

Then, it starts to get a bit fuzzy, as people break off into their opinions and dislikes, one of which is certainly the dialogue system. But if you think it's "the most universally disliked feature", I think perhaps you are letting your own opinions and preferences cloud your judgement.

[shadow7warlord]

Maclimes wrote...

shadow7warlord wrote...

The dialogue system is the most universally disliked feature of DA2.
If Bioware doesn't change it, they can't say there was no feedback on the matter...

That's ... not even remotely true.

If I had to guess, based on feedback on these boards, that the most universally disliked feature of DA2 was the lack of choice and impact. No matter what you decide, the world goes the same way.

After that, probably the lack of visual resources in the game. Repetition of dungeons and other areas, unchanging companion appearance, limited entirely to one city and it's surrounding areas.

Then, it starts to get a bit fuzzy, as people break off into their opinions and dislikes, one of which is certainly the dialogue system. But if you think it's "the most universally disliked feature", I think perhaps you are letting your own opinions and preferences cloud your judgement.

Ok maybe not the most disliked feature but definitely not remote...it's at the top of the feedback list just as choice and consequences.

As for the repetitive enviroments i wouldn't call them a "feature"...

[Maclimes]

lol Okay, I see what you mean. I was thinking of any aspect of the game, not the ones specifically designed for.

In that case, yes, it's probably one of the most complained about "features".

[Wrathion]

 Yes, I agree. It irritates me, when in order to reject something (a quest, flirt) my Dipomatic Hawke, who is usually soft spoken and agreeable. All of a sudden turns into a rage monster because the "no" option is ALWAYS aggressive/Direct.

I would like the dialogue system if your choices didn't determine your Hawkes tone of voice. You can so no, without screaming at your target, jeez.

[EricHVela]

I offer the option to change the wheel for a list that shows what the protagonist will say verbatim. Since they already have subtitles in the data, that's one step towards this option.

However, the issue is also that the protagonist is making multiple responses after choosing an option. We would only get to see the first line that the protagonist says. Still, a verbatim option helps guide the interaction with more information than a (sometimes misleading) summary of how the protagonist will approach the conversation.

[wsandista]

Fauxnormal wrote...

Oh, FFS. QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

WAH WAH WAH PEOPLE DIDNT LIKE A BAD GAEM WAH WAH WAH

Maybe you should stop whining.

[Maclimes]

ReggarBlane wrote...

I offer the option to change the wheel for a list that shows what the protagonist will say verbatim. Since they already have subtitles in the data, that's one step towards this option.

However, the issue is also that the protagonist is making multiple responses after choosing an option. We would only get to see the first line that the protagonist says. Still, a verbatim option helps guide the interaction with more information than a (sometimes misleading) summary of how the protagonist will approach the conversation.

I think a combination of both systems would be ideal.

Verbatim dialogue on the wheel, but keep the "tone" icon. I would get frustrated occasionally in Origins when I misunderstood the apparent intent of a line, even though I had the exact text.

Have you ever had an argument on the internet? It's like that. Words alone do not convey attitude, meaning, and intent. How many times have you mistook sarcasm for seriousness (or vice versa) when you're only method of communication is pure text.

I think the system would work best with both options combined.

Modifié par Maclimes, 11 juillet 2012 - 01:55 .

[JasonPogo]

This is all kinda moot. What DA3 needs is much better writing. Hawke was just poorly writen as a whole.

[Fast Jimmy]

wsandista wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Oh, FFS. QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

WAH WAH WAH PEOPLE DIDNT LIKE A BAD GAEM WAH WAH WAH

Maybe you should stop whining.

Just ignore FauxNormal. He offers nothing of value to any conversation, ever. 

[Darth Malice113]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

wsandista wrote...

Fauxnormal wrote...

Oh, FFS. QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

WAH WAH WAH PEOPLE DIDNT LIKE A BAD GAEM WAH WAH WAH

Maybe you should stop whining.

Just ignore FauxNormal. He offers nothing of value to any conversation, ever. 

Indeed.