31 réponses à ce sujet

[EpicBoot2daFace]

What happened to the neutal option? Why was it replaced with a sarcastic response? Whenever I chose the sarcastic response the delivery was almost always not funny.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Maclimes wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

I offer the option to change the wheel for a list that shows what the protagonist will say verbatim. Since they already have subtitles in the data, that's one step towards this option.

However, the issue is also that the protagonist is making multiple responses after choosing an option. We would only get to see the first line that the protagonist says. Still, a verbatim option helps guide the interaction with more information than a (sometimes misleading) summary of how the protagonist will approach the conversation.

I think a combination of both systems would be ideal.

Verbatim dialogue on the wheel, but keep the "tone" icon. I would get frustrated occasionally in Origins when I misunderstood the apparent intent of a line, even though I had the exact text.

Have you ever had an argument on the internet? It's like that. Words alone do not convey attitude, meaning, and intent. How many times have you mistook sarcasm for seriousness (or vice versa) when you're only method of communication is pure text.

I think the system would work best with both options combined.

That's not the problem. Even if the text was fully apparent, a positiv response would still be nice, a neutral response would still be sarcastic, and a negative response would still be aggressive. That's the problem with DA2's dialogue wheel; a tone is assigned to a particular response all the time. It's impossible to keep a consistent character unless you always agree to do something, are always neutral on matters, or always decline everything. 

Remember when we sometimes got the choice to choose a dialogue option without a tone assigned to it? That's what the dialogue system needs to be like on a constant basis. Responses that aren't automatically assigned to a mood. The tone dialogue should be the contextual dialogue. If it stays the way it is, i'll be forced to play yet another bi-polar PC.

[Brodoteau]

This conversation about the dialouge wheel pops up every few weeks. Some hate it, some love it. Some want full text, some are fine with the paraphrasing. What I think everyone has to realize with the DA2 wheel is that they are not choosing a response or dialouge. They are, more often than not, choosing a personality. The dialouge therefore references that particular personality choice. Diplomatic Hawke always wants more information for example, Aggressive Hawke is very blunt, Sarcastic Hawke wants to lighten the mood and so their reponses stem from these basic concepts (overally simplified here). Maybe we should stop calling it a dialogue wheel, it's a personality wheel and it influences your gameplay.

[Arthur Cousland]

If being consistent with dialogue responses is a concern, then rather than always picking nice/sarcastic/aggressive options, just so with what feels right for the particular conversation.

In general, I like the sarcastic responses, but there are times when I'll pick a nice response, for when Hawke is talking to his mother, or talking about someone who just died, or an aggressive response when I feel that Hawke should be angry with the person he's talking to.

Yes, there are times when the sarcastic responses aren't that funny, depending on the conversation.  When it seems appropriate, I'll go with a nice response.  When Hawke is having a casual conversation with Varric or Isabela, it's usually safe to go with sarcastic responses.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 12 juillet 2012 - 07:02 .

[Wozearly]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

MEs wheel iis better than what we got in DA2, as it didn't make the character extremely aggressive when saying "no", and didn't have that blasted sarcastic dialogue option that should really be contextual and not a staple in every goddam conversation. The sarcastic response should be replaced with a "neutral" response as staple in the dialogue wheel.

Completely agree that a neutral response would be useful, which was something ME as a series did better than DA2 on the dialogue wheel.

But the ME series dialogue wheel certainly had its overly aggressive oddities. Ever tried calmly questioning Avina's statements about the Council's heirarchy of races, only to find an otherwise reasonable Shepard go flinty-eyed and spit out "That's pretty damn arrogant!".

After initially really disliking the emotional tones in DA2, I think it is something with potential - but to unlock that, there need to be more than three dominant tones and ways of meaningfully getting to a similar outcome without having to be overly passive, overly aggressive or constantly sarcastic.

Of course, one obvious answer would be to look at how a different game in the DA series managed that outcome just fine by not having a voiced PC...but I think we've all been through that discussion at least six times since DA2 launched.

[Cultist]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
MEs wheel iis better than what we got in DA2, as it didn't make the character extremely aggressive when saying "no", and didn't have that blasted sarcastic dialogue option that should really be contextual and not a staple in every goddam conversation. The sarcastic response should be replaced with a "neutral" response as staple in the dialogue wheel.

And here's one of the many DW flaws, as with it you start to think that there's only three possible options - "Yes", "No" and a neutral one.  DW mechanic naturally dumbs down a dialogue to three options at best, and usually we got only yes and No without any neutral one.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Cultist wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...
MEs wheel iis better than what we got in DA2, as it didn't make the character extremely aggressive when saying "no", and didn't have that blasted sarcastic dialogue option that should really be contextual and not a staple in every goddam conversation. The sarcastic response should be replaced with a "neutral" response as staple in the dialogue wheel.

And here's one of the many DW flaws, as with it you start to think that there's only three possible options - "Yes", "No" and a neutral one.  DW mechanic naturally dumbs down a dialogue to three options at best, and usually we got only yes and No without any neutral one.

Pretty much. It's very limiting, but it's also very convenient for the devs.