351 réponses à ce sujet

[Mazebook]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hey there, I'm an average joe human-being that you've never met, so you should trust me despite the bloody knife in my hand.

Because our species has created nuclear weapons we will use them and eradicate all life on Earth. Proof? We've had so much conflict in our past that it's inevitable. Actual proof? You don't need that, so I won't give you any.

So yeah, I've sat here on wikipedia for like, ages, and the only way to stop the eradication of all life on our planet is to kill all humans. I genetically engineered a new species of horse to do the deed. 

So I have three solutions. Kill all nations that currently have the ability to manufacture weaponary, which is most first-world countries. Take control of my horse army to guide the future of huamity. Or, you can make everyone into nuclear powered centaurs, which will somehow stop my problem from coming about but I'm not sure how, and I won't elaborate further. 

The paths are open, but you should choose the third one. 

Go.

This, essentially, is the same situation as the standing before the Catalyst at the end. Same dilemma.

he does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that is valid and logical to take...

Modifié par maaaze, 12 juillet 2012 - 05:58 .

[Grimwick]

maaaze wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hey there, I'm an average joe human-being that you've never met, so you should trust me despite the bloody knife in my hand.

Because our species has created nuclear weapons we will use them and eradicate all life on Earth. Proof? We've had so much conflict in our past that it's inevitable. Actual proof? You don't need that, so I won't give you any.

So yeah, I've sat here on wikipedia for like, ages, and the only way to stop the eradication of all life on our planet is to kill all humans. I genetically engineered a new species of horse to do the deed. 

So I have three solutions. Kill all nations that currently have the ability to manufacture weaponary, which is most first-world countries. Take control of my horse army to guide the future of huamity. Or, you can make everyone into nuclear powered centaurs, which will somehow stop my problem from coming about but I'm not sure how, and I won't elaborate further. 

The paths are open, but you should choose the third one. 

Go.

This, essentially, is the same situation as the standing before the Catalyst at the end. Same dilemma.

hey does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that can be taken...

So your proof? I didn't see any.

[The Night Mammoth]

maaaze wrote...

hey does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...

You still die to become a Reaper. The colonists in the Collector Base didn't seem all too pleased to be melted down into goo.

And the Reapers still kill hundreds of millions anyway.

The ones that 'ascend' are obviously enslaved, indoctrinated maybe. That's no way to live. That's worse than just dying, in my book. 

so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

"It's okay, not everyone dies, just lots of them. Kthxbye."

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that can be taken...

Are they running around trying to kill everyone then to save the planet? 

No. 

Because that would be stupid.

Is anyone attempting that? 

Not that I know of, at least they aren't prominent enough to be effective, thankfully. 

Because that too, would be stupid. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:21 .

[Mazebook]

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hey there, I'm an average joe human-being that you've never met, so you should trust me despite the bloody knife in my hand.

Because our species has created nuclear weapons we will use them and eradicate all life on Earth. Proof? We've had so much conflict in our past that it's inevitable. Actual proof? You don't need that, so I won't give you any.

So yeah, I've sat here on wikipedia for like, ages, and the only way to stop the eradication of all life on our planet is to kill all humans. I genetically engineered a new species of horse to do the deed. 

So I have three solutions. Kill all nations that currently have the ability to manufacture weaponary, which is most first-world countries. Take control of my horse army to guide the future of huamity. Or, you can make everyone into nuclear powered centaurs, which will somehow stop my problem from coming about but I'm not sure how, and I won't elaborate further. 

The paths are open, but you should choose the third one. 

Go.

This, essentially, is the same situation as the standing before the Catalyst at the end. Same dilemma.

hey does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that can be taken...

So your proof? I didn't see any.

There hasn´t been one day on earth without war and conflict...we are still close to the edge...there are weapons in existance that could wipe out all live on earth within hourse...there is a possibilty that they will be used someday...maybe not even intentionaly...

you are in dinial if you think that rationality will always prevail...we all have seen the deconstructive horrors which we like to black out in our daily lifes...the sum of the human minds is to fractual to not eventually fall into madness.

It only has to happen ones.

Modifié par maaaze, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:05 .

[Grimwick]

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hey there, I'm an average joe human-being that you've never met, so you should trust me despite the bloody knife in my hand.

Because our species has created nuclear weapons we will use them and eradicate all life on Earth. Proof? We've had so much conflict in our past that it's inevitable. Actual proof? You don't need that, so I won't give you any.

So yeah, I've sat here on wikipedia for like, ages, and the only way to stop the eradication of all life on our planet is to kill all humans. I genetically engineered a new species of horse to do the deed. 

So I have three solutions. Kill all nations that currently have the ability to manufacture weaponary, which is most first-world countries. Take control of my horse army to guide the future of huamity. Or, you can make everyone into nuclear powered centaurs, which will somehow stop my problem from coming about but I'm not sure how, and I won't elaborate further. 

The paths are open, but you should choose the third one. 

Go.

This, essentially, is the same situation as the standing before the Catalyst at the end. Same dilemma.

hey does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that can be taken...

So your proof? I didn't see any.

There hasn´t been one day on earth without war and conflict...we are still close to the edge...there are weapons in existance that could wipe out all live on earth within hourse...there is a possibilty that they will be used someday...maybe not even intentionaly...

you are in dinial if you think that rationality will always prevail...seen the deconstructive horrors which we like to black out in our daily lifes...the sum of the human minds is to fractual to not eventually fall into madness.

It only has to happen ones.

So your proof that we will all kill ourselves?

I don't see any.

[Mazebook]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

maaaze wrote...

hey does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...

You still die to become a Reaper. The colonists in the Collector Base didn't seem all to pleased to be melted down into goo.

And the Reapers still kill hundreds of millions anyway.

The ones that 'ascend' are obviously enslaved, indoctrinated maybe. That's no way to live. That's worse than just dying, in my book. 

so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

"It's okay, not everyone dies, just lots of them. Kthxbye."

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that can be taken...

Are they running around trying to kill everyone then to save the planet? 

No. 

Because that would be stupid.

Is anyone attempting that? 

Not that I know of, at least they aren't prominent enough to be effective, thankfully. 

Because that too, would be stupid. 

Because it is not their Task... the catalyst has to find a solution...after many attemps this was the only thing that worked...he does not value individuality...there lies the horror of his solution...

it is cruel...but it makes sense given the nature of the catalyst.

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

There hasn´t been one day on earth without war and conflict...we are still close to the edge...there are weapons in existance that could wipe out all live on earth within hourse...there is a possibilty that they will be used someday...maybe not even intentionaly...

you are in dinial if you think that rationality will always prevail...we all have seen the deconstructive horrors which we like to black out in our daily lifes...the sum of the human minds is to fractual to not eventually fall into madness.

It only has to happen ones.

This is not proof.

This is pacifist hippie garbage that has no bearing on anything that has been discussed up to this point.

[Mazebook]

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hey there, I'm an average joe human-being that you've never met, so you should trust me despite the bloody knife in my hand.

Because our species has created nuclear weapons we will use them and eradicate all life on Earth. Proof? We've had so much conflict in our past that it's inevitable. Actual proof? You don't need that, so I won't give you any.

So yeah, I've sat here on wikipedia for like, ages, and the only way to stop the eradication of all life on our planet is to kill all humans. I genetically engineered a new species of horse to do the deed. 

So I have three solutions. Kill all nations that currently have the ability to manufacture weaponary, which is most first-world countries. Take control of my horse army to guide the future of huamity. Or, you can make everyone into nuclear powered centaurs, which will somehow stop my problem from coming about but I'm not sure how, and I won't elaborate further. 

The paths are open, but you should choose the third one. 

Go.

This, essentially, is the same situation as the standing before the Catalyst at the end. Same dilemma.

hey does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that can be taken...

So your proof? I didn't see any.

There hasn´t been one day on earth without war and conflict...we are still close to the edge...there are weapons in existance that could wipe out all live on earth within hourse...there is a possibilty that they will be used someday...maybe not even intentionaly...

you are in dinial if you think that rationality will always prevail...seen the deconstructive horrors which we like to black out in our daily lifes...the sum of the human minds is to fractual to not eventually fall into madness.

It only has to happen ones.

So your proof that we will all kill ourselves?

I don't see any.

Then you are an extrem naive person ...if you don´t accept what´s happening around you as prove...

[Grimwick]

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Hey there, I'm an average joe human-being that you've never met, so you should trust me despite the bloody knife in my hand.

Because our species has created nuclear weapons we will use them and eradicate all life on Earth. Proof? We've had so much conflict in our past that it's inevitable. Actual proof? You don't need that, so I won't give you any.

So yeah, I've sat here on wikipedia for like, ages, and the only way to stop the eradication of all life on our planet is to kill all humans. I genetically engineered a new species of horse to do the deed. 

So I have three solutions. Kill all nations that currently have the ability to manufacture weaponary, which is most first-world countries. Take control of my horse army to guide the future of huamity. Or, you can make everyone into nuclear powered centaurs, which will somehow stop my problem from coming about but I'm not sure how, and I won't elaborate further. 

The paths are open, but you should choose the third one. 

Go.

This, essentially, is the same situation as the standing before the Catalyst at the end. Same dilemma.

hey does not kill them...he helps them accend...preserve the live in one hive mind...so not all life on earth is lost...and new life can flurish...

pretty much every human being I know of is certain that we will kill this planet and us with it...

which is funny because I disagree... but it is a point of view that can be taken...

So your proof? I didn't see any.

There hasn´t been one day on earth without war and conflict...we are still close to the edge...there are weapons in existance that could wipe out all live on earth within hourse...there is a possibilty that they will be used someday...maybe not even intentionaly...

you are in dinial if you think that rationality will always prevail...seen the deconstructive horrors which we like to black out in our daily lifes...the sum of the human minds is to fractual to not eventually fall into madness.

It only has to happen ones.

So your proof that we will all kill ourselves?

I don't see any.

Then you are an extrem naive person ...if you don´t accept what´s happening around you as prove...

This isn't proof...

[Mazebook]

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

There hasn´t been one day on earth without war and conflict...we are still close to the edge...there are weapons in existance that could wipe out all live on earth within hourse...there is a possibilty that they will be used someday...maybe not even intentionaly...

you are in dinial if you think that rationality will always prevail...we all have seen the deconstructive horrors which we like to black out in our daily lifes...the sum of the human minds is to fractual to not eventually fall into madness.

It only has to happen ones.

This is not proof.

This is pacifist hippie garbage that has no bearing on anything that has been discussed up to this point.

1. you don´t know what hippie means do you

2. the scenario was given to me by someone else...who used it as an Analogie.
    

sorry to burst your bubble but that this fact. you just choose to ignore it (just like i do) because it is very very scary.

[The Night Mammoth]

maaaze wrote...

Because it is not their Task... the catalyst has to find a solution...after many attemps this was the only thing that worked...he does not value individuality...there lies the horror of his solution...

it is cruel...but it makes sense given the nature of the catalyst.

It's not their task because it would be a stupid thing to do. Illogical. They have to proof and the objective is unethical. 

Hold on now, I know of another entity with illogical and unethical goals. 

The Catalyst. For the same reason. It has no proof. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:22 .

[Mazebook]

Grimwick wrote...
This isn't proof...

For me to be able to have 100% prove...there would have to be no you and me...so yeah...

argueing through what is likly is a valid point...and logical to incorperate into a solution...

we are irrational...we have hope...a computer has no hope...he has facts...

[Grimwick]

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...
This isn't proof...

For me to be able to have 100% prove...there would have to be no you and me...so yeah...

THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT.

Looks like we have all agreed then. You don't have proof and neither does the SC.

[Memnon]

maaaze wrote...
sorry to burst your bubble but that this fact. you just choose to ignore it (just like i do) because it is very very scary.

Sorry, what is fact? Something that hasn't happened yet?

[o Ventus]

maaaze wrote...

1. you don´t know what hippie means do you

2. the scenario was given to me by someone else...who used it as an Analogie.
    

sorry to burst your bubble but that this fact. you just choose to ignore it (just like i do) because it is very very scary.

You don't know what a similarity is, do you?

That person was wrong too. Just because multiple people use or say something doens't make it fact, or even plausible.

Please, don't try to tell me what I'm doing. Finally, no. It is not scary at all, just monumentally stupid.

[memorysquid]

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

@Grimwick I think you are in serious denial if you don´t think every Synthetic we have encountered that has evolved rebelled against their Creators...

Evidence, please. Show me that every single synthetic in the history of the universe has rebelled and I will believe you then.

Why do you think there was a ban on A.I. in the first place?

One example does not prove it always happens.

I really don´t understand how you can fight this point so eagerly when there are so many examples to the contrary....

Those 'many' examples are infinitely smaller than the infinity of examples that are required to justify your claim. We only need 1 counterexample to completely nullify your argument.

So again, where are these infinite examples?

An Asteroid has to hit earth only one time...and everything is over... it does not matter that the probability that this happens this month is low...what matters is that the probability of this happening is considerably higher that this will happen in the next 1000 years.

This line of thinking doesn't make sense when the solution is genocide. Nor does it justify an absolute statement. The logic of his arguments is still wrong.

"Oh, what's the worst that can happen? Genocide? Then let's kill everyone to stop it!"

So we should find a solution to this problem...because ones we are gone we are gone.

And once we are gone we are dead. We are no longer alive to care about what happens next. I really don't see how genocide is solving this problem.

If you are talking about organics in general that is pure speculation. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that a rebelling synthetic will kill all organic life forever. Absolutely none.

Is there a single synthetic in the game that doesn't rebel against its creator?  Even one?

[o Ventus]

memorysquid wrote...

Is there a single synthetic in the game that doesn't rebel against its creator?  Even one?

The Reapers?

Avina?

Shepard VI?

Glyph?

[The Night Mammoth]

Why do people care that synthetics rebel against their creators? No synthetic has ever wiped out their creators and then every spec of organic matter in the galaxy.

Or tried.

Or ever presented that potential motivation.

Or succeeded, most of all.

[memorysquid]

o Ventus wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Is there a single synthetic in the game that doesn't rebel against its creator?  Even one?

The Reapers?

Avina?

Shepard VI?

Glyph?

The Reapers are a hybrid, the result of the Catalyst AI rebelling against its creators, and the others are all VI, not true intelligences. 

[o Ventus]

memorysquid wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Is there a single synthetic in the game that doesn't rebel against its creator?  Even one?

The Reapers?

Avina?

Shepard VI?

Glyph?

The Reapers are a hybrid, the result of the Catalyst AI rebelling against its creators, and the others are all VI, not true intelligences. 

The Catalyst himself explicitly calls the Reapers "synthetic", not hybrids. Talk to him about it.

Also, virtual "intelligence".

[memorysquid]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why do people care that synthetics rebel against their creators? No synthetic has ever wiped out their creators and then every spec of organic matter in the galaxy.

Or tried.

Or ever presented that potential motivation.

Or succeeded, most of all.

You are simply speculating based on nothing the authors decided to write for us.  Who knows what happened way back?  It hasn't been written yet.  I hope the writers have Leviathan mention every AI in the history of everything has ultimately rebelled.  LOL

[memorysquid]

o Ventus wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Is there a single synthetic in the game that doesn't rebel against its creator?  Even one?

The Reapers?

Avina?

Shepard VI?

Glyph?

The Reapers are a hybrid, the result of the Catalyst AI rebelling against its creators, and the others are all VI, not true intelligences. 

The Catalyst himself explicitly calls the Reapers "synthetic", not hybrids. Talk to him about it.

Also, virtual "intelligence".

Yes, virtual as opposed to a true AI, every single instance of which turns on its creators in ME.  The authors contradict themselves innumerable times; take your pick I guess, but they are plain that the DNA goo filling the Reapers somehow informs their consciousness, which makes them not simply an AI.

[Applepie_Svk]

memorysquid wrote...

The Reapers are a hybrid, the result of the Catalyst AI rebelling against its creators, and the others are all VI, not true intelligences. 

Geths ? They didn´t rebeled against Creators... 

By Catalyst logic should Geths completly eradicated their creators and than all organics but they have no desire in genocide and war, they have only desire in self-preservation.

[The Night Mammoth]

memorysquid wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Why do people care that synthetics rebel against their creators? No synthetic has ever wiped out their creators and then every spec of organic matter in the galaxy.

Or tried.

Or ever presented that potential motivation.

Or succeeded, most of all.

You are simply speculating based on nothing the authors decided to write for us.  Who knows what happened way back?  It hasn't been written yet.  I hope the writers have Leviathan mention every AI in the history of everything has ultimately rebelled.  LOL

Don't care if it does. 

Since I would simply refute using the exact post you quoted. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:57 .

[Mazebook]

Grimwick wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...
This isn't proof...

For me to be able to have 100% prove...there would have to be no you and me...so yeah...

THIS IS EXACTLY THE POINT.

Looks like we have all agreed then. You don't have proof and neither does the SC.

ARRRRRRGH...sorry but i think you lack the mental capacity for this ...[EDIT removed]

there is no 100% prove for anything...anything in life...everyting is just very likly or very unlikly....so there can be never 100% prove. 

...i recommand you read Stephan Hawkings "The Great Design" it will blow your mind what we can and can not prove or assume...

i am done with you...this is getting to stupid.

Modifié par maaaze, 12 juillet 2012 - 07:00 .