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The catalyst just makes no sense


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#326
Grimwick

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maaaze wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

like i said...it could be that it is not actually oxygene i am refuse to breath...it could be an unknown aspect that coexists with oxygene...even tough very unlikly...


Like I said. Our atmosphere is nitrogen and oxygen. You go breathe pure nitrogen and tell me how long you lived.


It is much more than that...

have you ever heard of dark matter...?


The hell does dark matter have to do with nitrogen and oxygen?

Do you have any idea yourself what you're talking about?


Remember, this is the person who called the Higg's boson 'magic'.


what are you talking about?


Ok, that really was my bad. 

My sincerest apologies, I mistook you for someone else.

#327
KingZayd

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maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Science is always challanged as it should...nothing is fact...it is just very likly...


I'm trying very hard not to insult your intelligence. Please don't tempt me. I hope, for your sake, that you see how stupid you sound right now.

and hey I can just say strawman and appear to have a point...LOOK at me ...I am argueing...strawman ...hahaha...what a good point...



I dare you...try me...if you really think anything can be 100% proven...you are very naive..


Humans need oxygen to live, fact. Go ahead try and hold your breath indefinitely to disprove it. I can wait.


It is very very likly that humans need Oxygene to survive...but it is also possible (even tough very unlikly) that it is not actually oxygene that we need...but an unknown factor that happens to coexist with oxygen...


No. We know the chemical reactions involved.

The Oxygen binds to the haemoglobin. It is eventually used with cytochrome oxidase at the end of the electron transport chain in respiration. This is known.

#328
Grimwick

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maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

like i said...it could be that it is not actually oxygene i am refuse to breath...it could be an unknown aspect that coexists with oxygene...even tough very unlikly...


Like I said. Our atmosphere is nitrogen and oxygen. You go breathe pure nitrogen and tell me how long you lived.


It is much more than that...

have you ever heard of dark matter...?


The hell does dark matter have to do with nitrogen and oxygen?

Do you have any idea yourself what you're talking about?


It means that we have so many things in our model of our Universe that are unknown or contradictionary...that we have to invent something that is undetactible to make sense of it...

ergo all existing models are not 100% accurate...nothing can be 100% fact.


1+1 = 2

Show to me that this model isn't 100% fact.

#329
Mazebook

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Applepie_Svk wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Maaaze is just making an art-form of grasping at emergency induction ports


And he is refusing to believe that he was successfuly indoctrinated...


if only you knew what you are talking about...

the very notion of a 100% certainty is absurd.

#330
o Ventus

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maaaze wrote...

It means that we have so many things in our model of our Universe that are unknown or contradictionary...that we have to invent something that is undetactible to make sense of it...

ergo all existing models are not 100% accurate...nothing can be 100% fact.


I'll ask again, do you yourself have any idea what you're talking about?

#331
Mazebook

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KingZayd wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

Science is always challanged as it should...nothing is fact...it is just very likly...


I'm trying very hard not to insult your intelligence. Please don't tempt me. I hope, for your sake, that you see how stupid you sound right now.

and hey I can just say strawman and appear to have a point...LOOK at me ...I am argueing...strawman ...hahaha...what a good point...



I dare you...try me...if you really think anything can be 100% proven...you are very naive..


Humans need oxygen to live, fact. Go ahead try and hold your breath indefinitely to disprove it. I can wait.


It is very very likly that humans need Oxygene to survive...but it is also possible (even tough very unlikly) that it is not actually oxygene that we need...but an unknown factor that happens to coexist with oxygen...


No. We know the chemical reactions involved.

The Oxygen binds to the haemoglobin. It is eventually used with cytochrome oxidase at the end of the electron transport chain in respiration. This is known.


it is a model that has worked good enough to be considered as an fact...but it is only very very likly that this is actually the case.

#332
o Ventus

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maaaze wrote...

Applepie_Svk wrote...

Baronesa wrote...

Maaaze is just making an art-form of grasping at emergency induction ports


And he is refusing to believe that he was successfuly indoctrinated...


if only you knew what you are talking about...

the very notion of a 100% certainty is absurd.


1+1=2. This is fact.

Humans need oxygen to survive. This is fact.

You want more?

#333
GreyLycanTrope

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maaaze wrote...
It means that we have so many things in our model of our Universe that are unknown or contradictionary...that we have to invent something that is undetactible to make sense of it...

ergo all existing models are not 100% accurate...nothing can be 100% fact.

Except we've studied to effect of specifically oxygen on the body, if oxygen acted only as a carrier for this unknown particle, and this particle is what we required to live, our body would have filtered this particle form the oxygen and removed the oxygen sooner rather then sending it on a merry go round through our ciriculatory system.

#334
Mazebook

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o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It means that we have so many things in our model of our Universe that are unknown or contradictionary...that we have to invent something that is undetactible to make sense of it...

ergo all existing models are not 100% accurate...nothing can be 100% fact.


I'll ask again, do you yourself have any idea what you're talking about?


Yeah I know...believe me...you haven´t shown me anything that shows me that you have slightest idea of what you talking about.

#335
o Ventus

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maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It means that we have so many things in our model of our Universe that are unknown or contradictionary...that we have to invent something that is undetactible to make sense of it...

ergo all existing models are not 100% accurate...nothing can be 100% fact.


I'll ask again, do you yourself have any idea what you're talking about?


Yeah I know...believe me...you haven´t shown me anything that shows me that you have slightest idea of what you talking about.


Greylycantrope already has.

I'm not doing it because it would be redundant.

#336
GreyLycanTrope

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o Ventus wrote...

Greylycantrope Geth rope-a-dope already has.

I'm not doing it because it would be redundant.

fixed :D

#337
Mazebook

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o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It means that we have so many things in our model of our Universe that are unknown or contradictionary...that we have to invent something that is undetactible to make sense of it...

ergo all existing models are not 100% accurate...nothing can be 100% fact.


I'll ask again, do you yourself have any idea what you're talking about?


Yeah I know...believe me...you haven´t shown me anything that shows me that you have slightest idea of what you talking about.


Greylycantrope already has.

I'm not doing it because it would be redundant.


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...

#338
o Ventus

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maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...

It means that we have so many things in our model of our Universe that are unknown or contradictionary...that we have to invent something that is undetactible to make sense of it...

ergo all existing models are not 100% accurate...nothing can be 100% fact.


I'll ask again, do you yourself have any idea what you're talking about?


Yeah I know...believe me...you haven´t shown me anything that shows me that you have slightest idea of what you talking about.


Greylycantrope already has.

I'm not doing it because it would be redundant.


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...


Ok then. I'll play your game.

"Prove it to me."

#339
Any0day

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o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...


Ok then. I'll play your game.

"Prove it to me."

Quantum Theory.

#340
GreyLycanTrope

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Any0day wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...


Ok then. I'll play your game.

"Prove it to me."

Quantum Theory.

Proves nothing even if oxygen does act only as a carrier for this 'mystery particle' it still appears to be the only thing that is able to act as the appropriate carrier to casue this supposed particle to interact with out body's physiology, hence oxygen is still required.

Ergo humans need oxygen to live, still fact even under these pretenses.

I'm done with this, my biology hurts.

#341
Legbiter

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It is a imperfect construct. It proceeds from a flawed axiom (synthetics will always destroy organics) and all it's subsequent actions heighten and amplify that fatal flaw.

Garbage in, garbage out.

#342
Grimwick

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Any0day wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...


Ok then. I'll play your game.

"Prove it to me."

Quantum Theory.


What does quantum theory have to do with anything that has been said?

#343
Dharvy

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Legbiter wrote...

It is a imperfect construct. It proceeds from a flawed axiom (synthetics will always destroy organics) and all it's subsequent actions heighten and amplify that fatal flaw.

Garbage in, garbage out.


Actually from its own cycle, it says it always happened. And we don't know how long its cycle was or how long this conflict seemed to always happen. Then it lived through untold number of cycles where it may have always still happened. And it even happened in the onle 2 cycles that we know of. (They may not of have destroyed all organics but that may be just an eventuality.) And to say that Synthetics will wipe out all organics is not a hard conclusion to come by. Simply put organics' emotions, fears, illogical, or irrationally flawed behavior presents a conflict with synthetics desire or need for self-preservation. And without the emotional, ethical, or moral thought process in synthetics, eliminating organics could become as sensible as you putting an alarm system in your house to prevent being robbed.

But to prove with 100% certainty that organics will be completely wiped by synthetics is to simply be wiped and thus no need for proof because organics that seem to need the proof to ethicaly understand the SC will not even exist.

I don't think ethics and morals exist within the SC, catalyst, so it don't have those organic premises interferring with its logic or justification, as we as organics do. We burn fields to make way for new growth, we don't consider it unethical or immoral. I just don't see why so many can't seem to understand that an AI given a task will handle it with brutal effeciency absent all the moral delimna we may run into with given the same task.

#344
memorysquid

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The Night Mammoth wrote...


Except we do, because when people don't see the same color they have a proven defect. 

But this is a massive tangent. 


It isn't a defect; it is just different.  They interpret data differently than some; there is no uber-perspective from which to compare and call one view more veridical than another.

#345
memorysquid

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Grimwick wrote...

Any0day wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...


Ok then. I'll play your game.

"Prove it to me."

Quantum Theory.


What does quantum theory have to do with anything that has been said?


The Copenhagen interpretation.  Schroedinger's Cat.  Mukluk.

#346
memorysquid

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The Night Mammoth wrote...

memorysquid wrote...




P.S. The Citadel AI actually mentions the inevitability of conflict and his wish to join the Geth to wipe out organics and safeguard its own existence.

Pretty sure it doesn't. Since, you know, it only wants to stay alive, rather than pursue a genocidal campaign.




Plus it mentions "probability of detection 100%."  Image IPB

Modifié par memorysquid, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:18 .


#347
N7 samus aran

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Tazzmission wrote...

catalyst does make sence

think the terminator scenario guys

oganics create synthetics to do w/e,

over time with improvments and upgrades synthetics start to become more advanced to where they are dead even with organic thought and mind

geth quarian conflict shows just this

best way to eliminate the chaos is by harvesting everything organics carry like personality, thoughts, ideas

without creators there wont be creations

Terminator scenaario doenst proof why Geth protect themself from creators that is not even close Geth didnt want wipee out all life they acted selfdefend because Quarians tryed exeterminate them

#348
Memnon

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Grimwick wrote...

Any0day wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...


Ok then. I'll play your game.

"Prove it to me."

Quantum Theory.


What does quantum theory have to do with anything that has been said?


I can't tell if people are slapping together words that sound scientific and hoping they make a congruent statement or what. Let's get grounded in reality here - I have a statement that is 100% factual:

I exist

#349
Grimwick

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memorysquid wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Any0day wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

maaaze wrote...


its a model...we understand the world through models...that´s all...signing off...

to believe there are statements that are 100% factual is naive... but maybe someday you will get there...


Ok then. I'll play your game.

"Prove it to me."

Quantum Theory.


What does quantum theory have to do with anything that has been said?


The Copenhagen interpretation.  Schroedinger's Cat.  Mukluk.


I'll repeat. What does quantum theory have to do with anything that has been said?

You haven't explained why it is relevant in proving something.

#350
Jayleia

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maaaze wrote...

so  you say ...but can you disprove me...that this is 100% not the case ?...like i said ...it is very very likly that we need Oxygene...but absolutly nothing is 100% for sure...


Is there a possibility that we just receive a deactivation signal from mars, which is undetectable by any science we have, which makes us inactive when we can't breathe O2?  Of course its POSSIBLE.

However, we can prove that O2 is needed to fuel the metabolic reactions on a chemical and biological level, not just "go hold your breath" (though, apparently you HAVE been holding your breath too much)

Modifié par Jayleia, 13 juillet 2012 - 12:58 .