dreman9999 wrote...
They why did he ask you to choose a new salution? Why use the fire examle?elitehunter34 wrote...
maaaze wrote...
He did try other solutions...so yea...and of course he is shackled...the only other unshackled A.I. was EDI...and she did not start this way.
There is no proof that he is shackled. You can only speculate.
dreman9999 wrote...
You understand his programing was to save both organics and synthetics. Based on his programing, wiping out synthetics is not an option.Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Even the starchild said it doesn't fully solve the problem. He's just doing it because it's the only solution he can do. His programing is forcing he to do it.Grimwick wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaues that doesn't solve the problem and they are harvesting both organics and sythetics.Stornskar wrote...
Tazzmission wrote...
catalyst does make sence
think the terminator scenario guys
oganics create synthetics to do w/e,
over time with improvments and upgrades synthetics start to become more advanced to where they are dead even with organic thought and mind
geth quarian conflict shows just this
best way to eliminate the chaos is by harvesting everything organics carry like personality, thoughts, ideas
without creators there wont be creations
Why don't we harvest the damn AI instead of organics?
Neither does harvesting both solve the problem.
It solves the problem of all organic life getting extinct.
So does wiping out all synthetics.
I'm not requoting that super large comment you have at the top of the page.elitehunter34 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
How do you not understand that a machine does what it programed to do? The fire analogy is to say it has no choice in the matter. He was made this way.elitehunter34 wrote...
Er, what are you referring to. The quote is blank.
What point to that he does. Based on his programing, he is preserving. If you want to point out they are dead, first point out how they are not alive now as a reaper first.Grimwick wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
You understand his programing was to save both organics and synthetics. Based on his programing, wiping out synthetics is not an option.Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Even the starchild said it doesn't fully solve the problem. He's just doing it because it's the only solution he can do. His programing is forcing he to do it.Grimwick wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
Becaues that doesn't solve the problem and they are harvesting both organics and sythetics.Stornskar wrote...
Tazzmission wrote...
catalyst does make sence
think the terminator scenario guys
oganics create synthetics to do w/e,
over time with improvments and upgrades synthetics start to become more advanced to where they are dead even with organic thought and mind
geth quarian conflict shows just this
best way to eliminate the chaos is by harvesting everything organics carry like personality, thoughts, ideas
without creators there wont be creations
Why don't we harvest the damn AI instead of organics?
Neither does harvesting both solve the problem.
It solves the problem of all organic life getting extinct.
So does wiping out all synthetics.
So he kills both of them instead? [BTW when did he say both of them? I might have missed that.]
The logic is strong with this one.
Grimwick wrote...
What. I just showed you how he makes an appeal to probability, thereby rendering his logic invalid and nonsensical - and that's all you can say?
Well. I am left speechless.
dreman9999 wrote...
They why did he ask you to choose a new salution? Why use the fire examle?
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
What. I just showed you how he makes an appeal to probability, thereby rendering his logic invalid and nonsensical - and that's all you can say?
Well. I am left speechless.
like i said probabilty requieres logic thinking...
I guess Mordins behavior must have been really strange to you...because it is all he is doing...acting out of probabilty.
dreman9999 wrote...
I'm not requoting that super large comment you have at the top of the page.elitehunter34 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
How do you not understand that a machine does what it programed to do? The fire analogy is to say it has no choice in the matter. He was made this way.elitehunter34 wrote...
Er, what are you referring to. The quote is blank.
elitehunter34 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
They why did he ask you to choose a new salution? Why use the fire examle?
Because it's bad writing. There is absolutely no reason why he would ask us to choose a new solution. He shouldn't have given us choices at all. Why? Because it does not make sense why an AI that is programmed to stop synthetics from destroying organics would give Shepard that power. Shepard might not believe the Catalyst's claim that synthetics will always rebel against organics. So it makes sense why the Catalyst wouldn't trust him. It doesn't make sense why he would.
How is it bad writing? Reaping was not his goal so why should he not chance getting to his true goal when the oertunity open it's self. The true goal of the reapers is synthesis, not reaping. This was his last chance being that it's clear the current salution would end in the next cycle any way if he is not stopped.elitehunter34 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
They why did he ask you to choose a new salution? Why use the fire examle?
Because it's bad writing. There is absolutely no reason why he would ask us to choose a new solution. He shouldn't have given us choices at all. Why? Because it does not make sense why an AI that is programmed to stop synthetics from destroying organics would give Shepard that power. Shepard might not believe the Catalyst's claim that synthetics will always rebel against organics. So it makes sense why the Catalyst wouldn't trust him. It doesn't make sense why he would.
Modifié par dreman9999, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:19 .
I know your not. It's just the fact that he is a machine doing what he is programed to do awnsers all your claims.elitehunter34 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
I'm not requoting that super large comment you have at the top of the page.elitehunter34 wrote...
dreman9999 wrote...
How do you not understand that a machine does what it programed to do? The fire analogy is to say it has no choice in the matter. He was made this way.elitehunter34 wrote...
Er, what are you referring to. The quote is blank.
I'm not making any of those kind of claims. Read my post more thoroughly.
Modifié par dreman9999, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:22 .
Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
What. I just showed you how he makes an appeal to probability, thereby rendering his logic invalid and nonsensical - and that's all you can say?
Well. I am left speechless.
like i said probabilty requieres logic thinking...
Probability is simply referring to the likelyhood of an event...
I guess Mordins behavior must have been really strange to you...because it is all he is doing...acting out of probabilty.
There's a difference between selecting the most likely event to happen and stating that something will always happen.
Quite an obvious difference...
Modifié par maaaze, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:21 .
Grimwick wrote...
There's a difference between selecting the most likely event to happen and stating that something will always happen.
Quite an obvious difference...
But that contradiction is base on the ideal on what alive is. Unless he had a fix statment on what alive is then a solution like the reapers make sense in his perspective.elitehunter34 wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
There's a difference between selecting the most likely event to happen and stating that something will always happen.
Quite an obvious difference...
I can't believe I'm saying this but for once I kinda agree with maaze here. For this particular example you can just chalk up the Catalyst's claims as craziness. He doesn't have to make sense.
However, I do think the Catalyst contradicts his own motivations, but that's a completely different point.
Modifié par dreman9999, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:22 .
dreman9999 wrote...
You understand his programing was to save both organics and synthetics. Based on his programing, wiping out synthetics is not an option.
Modifié par Stornskar, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:22 .
Yes I know that Reaping wasn't his goal. But don't you see that by giving Shepard the Destroy option, the Catalyst is failing his goal? It doesn't make sense why he would tell us.dreman9999 wrote...
How is it bad writing? Reaping was not his goal so why should he not chance getting to his true goal when the oertunity open it's self. The true goal of the reapers is synthesis, not reaping. This was his last chance being that it's clear the current salution would end in the next cycle any way if he is not stopped.
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
What. I just showed you how he makes an appeal to probability, thereby rendering his logic invalid and nonsensical - and that's all you can say?
Well. I am left speechless.
like i said probabilty requieres logic thinking...
Probability is simply referring to the likelyhood of an event...
I guess Mordins behavior must have been really strange to you...because it is all he is doing...acting out of probabilty.
There's a difference between selecting the most likely event to happen and stating that something will always happen.
Quite an obvious difference...
Yeah...the catlyst or its creators ran the numbers and determend that the liklyhood is big enough to take action.
Completly rational logical behavior.
elitehunter34 wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
There's a difference between selecting the most likely event to happen and stating that something will always happen.
Quite an obvious difference...
I can't believe I'm saying this but for once I kinda agree with maaze here. For this particular example you can just chalk up the Catalyst's claims as craziness. He doesn't have to make sense.
However, I do think the Catalyst contradicts his own motivations, but that's a completely different point.
maaaze wrote...
Yeah...the catalyst or its creators ran the numbers and determend that the liklyhood is big enough to take action.
Completly rational logical behavior.
dreman9999 wrote...
@Stornskar
Good. Then now the catalyst makes sense at least. It's a machine that is doing it's programing and went to far with it and it has to be stopped.
That all you need to know to understand it.
maaaze wrote...
He himself says he can not do them...he is limited...prove = he is shackled.
Fun fact: Machine have different ethic, moral, and idealialogy then orgaincs.Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
What. I just showed you how he makes an appeal to probability, thereby rendering his logic invalid and nonsensical - and that's all you can say?
Well. I am left speechless.
like i said probabilty requieres logic thinking...
Probability is simply referring to the likelyhood of an event...I guess Mordins behavior must have been really strange to you...because it is all he is doing...acting out of probabilty.
There's a difference between selecting the most likely event to happen and stating that something will always happen.
Quite an obvious difference...
Yeah...the catlyst or its creators ran the numbers and determend that the liklyhood is big enough to take action.
Completly rational logical behavior.
So... they justified genocide of everyone based on statistical information. They need a serious lesson in ethics. Statistical likelihood doesn't justify mass murder.
This also directly contradicts the absolute statements made by the SC when he says will 'always rebel'. He claims it is inevitable - not just 'likely'. He is making a fallacy with these claims.
Making a judgement based on statistical likelihoods is different from justification based on absolutes.
dreman9999 wrote...
Fun fact: Machine have different ethic, moral, and idealialogy then orgaincs.Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
maaaze wrote...
Grimwick wrote...
What. I just showed you how he makes an appeal to probability, thereby rendering his logic invalid and nonsensical - and that's all you can say?
Well. I am left speechless.
like i said probabilty requieres logic thinking...
Probability is simply referring to the likelyhood of an event...I guess Mordins behavior must have been really strange to you...because it is all he is doing...acting out of probabilty.
There's a difference between selecting the most likely event to happen and stating that something will always happen.
Quite an obvious difference...
Yeah...the catlyst or its creators ran the numbers and determend that the liklyhood is big enough to take action.
Completly rational logical behavior.
So... they justified genocide of everyone based on statistical information. They need a serious lesson in ethics. Statistical likelihood doesn't justify mass murder.
This also directly contradicts the absolute statements made by the SC when he says will 'always rebel'. He claims it is inevitable - not just 'likely'. He is making a fallacy with these claims.
Making a judgement based on statistical likelihoods is different from justification based on absolutes.
They don't have the same morals as we do.
To kill is nothing to them if there programing makes them. Even there concept of black and whie morality is different then use, to them it's not good or bad but what is it programing and what not in it's programing.
The problem is that the catalyst creator never placed any concept of organic moral in it. They just tasking it to solve something with out think how bad it can get.
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