55 réponses à ce sujet

[mousestalker]

I like to roleplay in games things I have never been. I've never been a pizza deliverer.

[batlin]

Dragon's Dogma and SWTOR did that

Also, the "errand boy" problem could be solved by making sidequests less menial. Case in point:

Modifié par batlin, 11 juillet 2012 - 01:35 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Skyrim had some good examples of good fetch quests.

For instance, there is a quest where you get a dagger, take it somewhere else, and then return for your reward.

However, the actual story is that the woman who gives you the dagger is a priestes of Akatosh, the god of the dead. She became a priestess against her will when her father, a fellow priest, died. He made her follow in his footsteps and she was using his dagger, which is against tradition. Upon death, the dagger is supposed to be returned to the temple. Once you return the dagger to the temple, the priest there is happy that she has begun to move on. When you return, the daughter has very touching dialogue about how she feels the spirit of her father is now at rest, and that she has begun to accept her role with a form of happiness.

The quest design was simple, but the thought behind it was apparent and had a real emotional reward, rather than just a generic gold reward.

[Patchwork]

DA2's fetch quests would have worked better for me if they'd been like a scavenger hunt. By which I mean at the beginning of the act the Chantry post a list of lost items. When you find one you can return it to the Chanter for some gold or if you wait and hand them in together you get a unique item.

I understand fetch quests are a staple of the genre, used as time sinks, but how they're implemented matters.

Skyrim's radiant system is very similar to DA2's psychic fedex quests and the only time it worked for me is with the Thieves Guild. The go there, get that, come back, get gold, style quest is used to build the guild's reputation. After a certain amount successful steals you get a special quest and completing it means a new merchant for the guild. The number of shiny items behind the guild master's desk increases the more radiants you do.

It was time well wasted, there was a reason for doing those quests.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 11 juillet 2012 - 09:34 .

[Patchwork]

sigh I meant to edit not quote.

Modifié par Ser Bard, 11 juillet 2012 - 09:33 .

[wsandista]

batlin wrote...

Dragon's Dogma and SWTOR did that

Also, the "errand boy" problem could be solved by making sidequests less menial. Case in point:

Nothing to add, just thought that this was brilliant.

[Wrathion]

wsandista wrote...

batlin wrote...

Dragon's Dogma and SWTOR did that

Also, the "errand boy" problem could be solved by making sidequests less menial. Case in point:

Nothing to add, just thought that this was brilliant.

Not seeing the brilliance. Though that might be in part because I've never played Baldur's Gate. Or maybe it's just me..the person that doesn't see the point in comparing a quest in a game that had ample development time to one that did not.

[eroeru]

Ser Bard wrote...

I understand fetch quests are a staple of the genre, used as time sinks, but how they're implemented matters.

Yup, but the main thing is that fetch quests as they are are lame and tiring, whilst strategy-mechanics' give massive amounts of time-sink potential.

As an example: King's Bounty the Legend has clocked in to about 120 hours in my Steam client, and I've only played it with one class (Mage), and am not even finished yet (and don't see the end near at hand yet) - this is in merit of the mechanics that make me stare at the screen and think. This was fantastic, and can only be for the good. What's more, I want to play more and more of it, thanks to the variability of (strategic) choice. Throughout this playthrough I've pondered about my future Warrior and Paladin.

Key-words are involvment and the messing around with choice.
Also, believability. A companion-oriented change of mechanic would give a bit more natural feeling to the game, where all isn't dependent on you alone (the main char). Things happening will depend on many people, who are all very much capable themselves, without the spoon-feeding from the protagonist.

Modifié par eroeru, 11 juillet 2012 - 05:42 .

[Vilegrim]

David Gaider wrote...

I like the idea of assigning quests to henchmen... in theory.

If you had to play through (either as those henchmen or as the player accompanying those henchmen), then that's really no different than doing the quest yourself. A different context, perhaps, but is the issue simply being the errand boy or doing quests that make you feel like an errand boy?

Meanwhile, if you sent henchmen off to do quests without you, we run into a problem of a different sort-- namely one of quest design. Such side quests exist, after all, to provide content for the player. If the player feels the content isn't worth doing, that's a different problem... but it's not one that you eliminate by letting the player skip, as then what's the point of including the content in the first place? You replace what's essentially cheap content with very expensive content (dialogue, meaning we must now discuss the experience which you didn't think was worth doing yourself).

If there was content that was specifically set up this way, as in the player simply can't go and do these quests-- he has to send a follower/henchmen and they "do" the quest on their own... that might be a little different. You're not telling them to do quests you could otherwise do yourself, but it's instead a mechanic of its own. So that might be something. It certainly wouldn't be cheap (especially if you talked to them about these quests they're doing), but it might have some interesting flavor.

SWTOR implements such a system very well, you feel more important because you can just say 'I need x, to make y, go sort it' With a touch a flavour text,  and a cost, you feel like you are actually important, that you have authority,

[brushyourteeth]

I may be alone in this, but I don't personally have any problem with fetch quests - I just felt like they took a few steps beyond "mediocre" into "terrible" in DA2. Who randomly picks up a corpse you found in the sewer? Call the freaking guard or walk away awkwardly - those are your two common sense options. Furthermore, who magically knows exactly who to bring that corpse to without any identifying clue? And what kind of person, after having received said corpse, says something ridiculous like "Well bless my bones! I never thought to see this again!"

By all means, send me on fetch quests. I will eat up the xp and the rewards like nobody's business. But at least take the extra time to make the quests sensible, or even better - somewhat relevant. Finding and informing the war widows of their husband's deaths in DA:O was a sort of fetch quest, but it was one that made much more sense than "Here is a tome of evil magic, random person with map marker!"

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 11 juillet 2012 - 05:49 .

[TonberryFeye]

What would have made the Blackstone Irregulars "letter" quest brilliant would have been funny has hell to allow something like this to happen...
WARDEN: "I'm sorry to tell you that your husband is dead."
WIDOW: "What? How? How did he die?"
WARDEN: "He was killed in battle at Ostagar."
WIDOW: "That can't be; my husband was stationed in Amaranthine!"
WARDEN: "... You are Sophia Carter? Sophie Jane Carter, of Redcliffe?"
"WIDOW": "Sophie Jennifer Carter of Highever... wait, does this mean my husband is alive?"
WARDEN: "Yeah, I'm sure he's fine... I have to go now."

[MichaelStuart]

I like the idea of sending followers off on quests.
Gives them something to do while there not following me.

[AbsoluteApril]

I don't mind fetch quests however...

TonberryFeye wrote...
However, too many of these 'quests' in DA2 felt pointless. You find a bottle of turpentine on the floor and somehow you magically know that some random idiot will pay you 50 silver for it.

I agree with this completely. I didn't understand how Hawke new the 'random amulet' was for some random person we don't know. It was a bit odd.  I like the quests to tie into the story or our character/followers a bit more (find flowers for Merrill or whatever). 

[withneelandi]

I think this is an interesting idea, but perhaps not for content for the main game.

I think the OP has come up with a good possible starting point for the Dragon Age version of the Mass Effect data pad app.

I really liked the idea of data pad, it was quite nice to dispatch fleets to fight the reapers on the train journey to work in the morning a slightly expanded version where merc groups, templar squads or whoever could be sent off to fight some rogue mages, pirates or bandits or find some Lyrium or other crafting recources that could be used in game.

I know some people hated it in Mass Effect, but personally I thought it was a really nice idea that I hope can be developed, and with microsoft getting excited about "smart-glass" it seems to be smartphone/tablet integration could be a big part of the next gen of consoles.

[Xerxes52]

TonberryFeye wrote...

What would have made the Blackstone Irregulars "letter" quest brilliant would have been funny has hell to allow something like this to happen...
WARDEN: "I'm sorry to tell you that your husband is dead."
WIDOW: "What? How? How did he die?"
WARDEN: "He was killed in battle at Ostagar."
WIDOW: "That can't be; my husband was stationed in Amaranthine!"
WARDEN: "... You are Sophia Carter? Sophie Jane Carter, of Redcliffe?"
"WIDOW": "Sophie Jennifer Carter of Highever... wait, does this mean my husband is alive?"
WARDEN: "Yeah, I'm sure he's fine... I have to go now."

I see what you did there. I love this idea.





As for sending followers on their own quests, something like Assassin's Creed Brotherhood/Revelations would work. It would be a more interesting system than the fetch quests in DA2 and ME3.

Modifié par Xerxes52, 12 juillet 2012 - 06:47 .

[nightscrawl]

David Gaider wrote...

If there was content that was specifically set up this way, as in the player simply can't go and do these quests-- he has to send a follower/henchmen and they "do" the quest on their own... that might be a little different. You're not telling them to do quests you could otherwise do yourself, but it's instead a mechanic of its own. So that might be something. It certainly wouldn't be cheap (especially if you talked to them about these quests they're doing), but it might have some interesting flavor.

This is only sort of related, but this paragraph made me think along those lines. I liked the way the opening for MotA was done with you walking into the square with Varric and him explaining the information he got from his contact. Things like that really breathe more life into the NPCs.

Regarding "errand" quests specifically, I didn't really feel that there was a great deal of those in DA2, apart from the infamous "FedEx" quests. Unfortunately, the whole questing atmosphere of Act 1 was tainted by the need to acquire 50g, and a sort of overall urgency. I enjoy completing quests for their own sake, but when it feels necessary to do so, for whatever reason, the enjoyment is lessened.

To me "errands" would be to fetch 10 boar livers, small spider legs, wolf pelts, things like that. In DAO especially, the Chanter's Board was certainly designed with this in mind, as were the Blackstone Irregulars and the Mages' Collective. However, those really made no attempt to hide the fact that were just there to provide you with some additional exp and money. But for other things, the NPC is approaching you because as a normal person, not an experienced adventurer like yourself, they have no one else to turn to with their problem.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 12 juillet 2012 - 07:34 .

[Wozearly]

David Gaider wrote...

If there was content that was specifically set up this way, as in the player simply can't go and do these quests-- he has to send a follower/henchmen and they "do" the quest on their own... that might be a little different. You're not telling them to do quests you could otherwise do yourself, but it's instead a mechanic of its own. So that might be something. It certainly wouldn't be cheap (especially if you talked to them about these quests they're doing), but it might have some interesting flavor.

It depends on the type of quest, IMO.

For crafting-style quests, SWTOR's mechanic of being able to send a companion off for gathering / creating to avoid bogging down the player and forcing them to sit in one place crafting was a good mechanism (at least, in an MMO context - not necessarily as critical a problem in a SP game).

The main companion side quests were very reminiscent of Bioware at their best, with the quests being very story driven, exposing the character's backstory over time and leading towards a romance, while not seeming overly forced. But in essence, the companion was just a standard quest-giver.

The minor companion side quests looked like they'd do the same, then flopped. They'd go off and do something on their own, refusing your help but, unlike when your main companion did it and things came back to bite you in the proverbial later on as a quest, the minor companions were more along the lines of; "Hey boss. I'm going off to do some hunting with some old friends, settle a few old scores..." [fade to black] "Hi. Yeah, I'm back. I went hunting and settled a few old scores. Was great. Glad to be back and working with you again." [quest ends]

The best example of "use a henchman" I've seen Bioware do in the past was breaking the main character out of a certain situation if you did a certain thing in the late stages of the game. Completely unexpected, brilliantly well written, too funny for its own good, and a highly refreshing change of stepping into your companions' shoes for a short period.

I think the OP was more likely to be gunning at the "FFS, stop giving me tons of errand-like fetch quests" angle...and indeedy, I'd cheer as loudly as the next man to see the growing number of fetch quests in the DA and ME series go and die horribly in a fire somewhere - but the problem is that without them as filler content, something else needs to be put into their place.

If we get to a bizarre situation where the filler content is annoying people to the extent that a new mechanic is introduced to allow the player to opt-out of filler content, that seems like addressing the symptoms rather than the underlying malady.

[Sylvius the Mad]

David Gaider wrote...

I like the idea of assigning quests to henchmen... in theory.

If you had to play through (either as those henchmen or as the player accompanying those henchmen), then that's really no different than doing the quest yourself.

I think that's quite a bit different.  Some of my favourite parts of KotOR and KotOR2 were the bits where you played through sections without the PC.

[Iakus]

I recall a quest, I think it was from BG2 which involved fetching various monster parts. You were able to foist off at least part of it onto a wandering band of low level adventurers who'd do it for you for a few gold as a reward.

Of course, the party tries to jump you afterwards, figuring you dropped good gear. Cue cutscene of you smacking them down, a "reload" and they hand you the item you needed.

Quite an amusing lean on the fourth wall, I thought.

[Iakus]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I like the idea of assigning quests to henchmen... in theory.

If you had to play through (either as those henchmen or as the player accompanying those henchmen), then that's really no different than doing the quest yourself.

I think that's quite a bit different.  Some of my favourite parts of KotOR and KotOR2 were the bits where you played through sections without the PC.

I actually found the rescue at Fort Drakon one of the cooler parts of DAO.

[Sylvius the Mad]

iakus wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I like the idea of assigning quests to henchmen... in theory.

If you had to play through (either as those henchmen or as the player accompanying those henchmen), then that's really no different than doing the quest yourself.

I think that's quite a bit different.  Some of my favourite parts of KotOR and KotOR2 were the bits where you played through sections without the PC.

I actually found the rescue at Fort Drakon one of the cooler parts of DAO.

That's another good example.  I didn't even see that until my fourth playthrough, but it was terrific.

[Maclimes]

I cannot remember for the life of me who I was talking with the other day, but they suggested that instead of having one protagonist with a party of followers, instead have the ENTIRE party be the protagonist. Icewind Dale did this, but at the sacrifice of personality. I think a middle ground could be found to make that work.