19 réponses à ce sujet

[Tenkawa]

Just like the title reads, should I be using the BW or Valiant.  I'm just before Priority: Thessia with an Infiltrator specced for damage, with Energy drain for shields and full disrupter ammo.

Armor us full H-K weapon bonus + recon hood.

Currently I am one-shotting cannibals/troopers/geth troops with my Valiant.

Should I switch to a L5 BW from my L5 Valiant?

[Tenkawa]

That is what I was figuring, since I can pop off about 9 shots from the Valiant in the time to shoot 3 with the BW and reload. Plus a lot of overkill.

But the respec would be to change the armor to buff shields/health if took the BW with its higher damage, giving me a little more survivability

[Kronner]

Black Widow. Heavier, better sound, it's black.

Valiant is a boring weapon with no recoil, imho.

[BCSneuro]

Javelin with the concentration mod = completely OP with energy drain and disruptor ammo. Note: this build doesn't require the full H-K weapon bonuses to 1-shot Marauders and Centurions after ED (I did my last insanity infiltrator run using only N7 armor). BW seems woefully underwhelming compared to a Javelin with the concentration mod, and the Javelin's scope makes the Widow seem restrictive in its use.

But getting back on topic, I don't actually have a valiant, so I cannot know how effective it is in insanity. My basic advice for a sniping infiltrator is to go with the rifle with the more powerful single shot, rather than the one with faster/higher dps.

However, it all comes down to which gun feels better to use given your particular play style: many radically different builds can have the same efficiency if played correctly. Hell... everyone here seems to love the BW while I don't see the appeal, given the more powerful rifles out there. To each his own; there is no "right" answer. DO WHAT FEELS BEST FOR YOU.

This chart may help if you care about crunching numbers:
https://docs.google....JLdXZZVXc#gid=0

Modifié par BCSneuro, 10 juillet 2012 - 03:32 .

[kstarler]

In my own Infiltrator experience (Insanity, BW 5 vs Valiant 5 using barrel and concentration mod, and AP ammo), I didn't notice any real difference between the Valiant and Black Widow when taking down normal mooks. However, the Black Widow did a good two bars more damage per shot against armored enemies than the Valiant, so it depends on what you want from your gun.

The Valiant gave better functionality against normal enemies (less recoil, faster reload), but the Black Widow dealt with bosses faster, especially with Garrus using a Proximity Mine for the damage buff.

ETA: Also, if you aren't using AP ammo, the Black Widow has built in piercing capability, whereas the Valiant doesn't, as far as I am aware.

Modifié par kstarler, 10 juillet 2012 - 04:03 .

[Tenkawa]

Thanks. I'll try out the BW on Thessia and see how it handles. That'll give me a harvester and a brute or two to test it on.... and maybe Kai Leng (Too bad I can't just take his head off)

My main thought is towards earth and the final fight against the waves of banshees.  The more damage I can do, the better. So I better get used to the BW now.

Modifié par Tenkawa, 10 juillet 2012 - 04:20 .

[Kamuiextreme]

Valiant has its advantages if you know how to use their characteristics: Concentration AP mod + or mod Damage associated with a good build and a good aim cause a major advantage. BW is powerful but the recoil weight and it interferes a lot. Oh he already gets a great strategy and build so that you can reduce weight and gain the upper hand and a heavy battle....

[Jovian09]

 Black Widow allows some tactical flexibility since it pierces armour without a mod or ammo. And it hits HARD. Valiant on the other hand has almost no recoil, an extremely fast reload and is very easy to use, helping rattle off consecutive headshots. Since many enemies are shield-gated on insanity, the extra punch on the BW might not always be worth it.

Since spoilers are allowed:

You'll get the original Widow on Thessia. it does massive damage and is useful against the big, armoured enemies the Reapers deploy against you. It's as viable as the other two you mentioned IMHO.

Also, the Javelin is massively fun!

[capn233]

Black Widow does not pierce armor natively. It has cover penetration, which is a different mechanic. It does do about 50% more damage per shot, and so armor DR is less noticeable. This can be remedied with SR Piercing, AP Ammo, Warp Ammo, or Cryo to some extent.

In any event, I think on an infiltrator Black Widow is actually better since you can kill basics with a cloaked body shot most of the time, and you can get all your shots in under cloak bonus if you try. Despite the paper DPS difference, there isn't a whole lot of difference in boss killing because you can fire all your Black Widow shots under cloak whereas you either have to wait with the Val, or fire a set of three off in between. And if you decide to do the latter, you are out of cover longer.

Modifié par capn233, 10 juillet 2012 - 06:31 .

[RiotLaFontaine]

I ended up ghetto-ing Insanity with a regular Mantis up to level V and had absolutely no difficulties. I was tempted to switch to the Widow for its power, but at its first rank I still had to 2-shot mobs (I didn't up it to V because after using it on Thessia found I didn't like the overall "feel" of the gun).  What I'm trying to sort of say here is that overall damage isn't as useful in single player when compared with the utility of a given weapon paired with individual playstyles.

I'd agree with others that the BW is the way to go as it has both high damage output matched with the flexibility of three shots with higher ammo counts.  I actually wasn't aware of the nature of the BW on my Mantis run.  I wanted high power matched with fast shots - the Widow didn't offer this and the Mantis was the closest I came.  After running with the BW a bit on MP, its the gun I was looking for all along.  The Valiant, however, underperformed for me during combat tests because of the sheer number of shots that needed to be fired, which led to more exposure during a round of combat.  I'd take too much damage and either die or lose my positional advantage.  However, if you're good at handling and speedy, you can wipe trash mobs at a much faster rate.

Modifié par RiotLaFontaine, 10 juillet 2012 - 07:42 .

[Tenkawa]

The Valiant with H-K armor, damage mod+concentration, and the various Shadow Broker upgrades to damage gives me one shot mook body kills under cloak already.

I'm very experienced at multiplayer with the Valiant, so am used to using it without the concentration mod.

I'll mention I have secondary weapons of Particle Rifle (Barrel+Clip) and Hurricane (ULM+Barrel) and a cooldown with a valiant of +17%, Widow it is -72%

[RiotLaFontaine]

Tenkawa wrote...

The Valiant with H-K armor, damage mod+concentration, and the various Shadow Broker upgrades to damage gives me one shot mook body kills under cloak already.

I'm very experienced at multiplayer with the Valiant, so am used to using it without the concentration mod.

I'll mention I have secondary weapons of Particle Rifle (Barrel+Clip) and Hurricane (ULM+Barrel) and a cooldown with a valiant of +17%, Widow it is -72%

If you're getting those one-shot mook kills already, I'd say you might be better off with the Valiant as more shots will = more kills.  At that point, it becomes a question as to how you're dealing with the larger mobs such as Banshees and Brute.

At the end, when activating the missile launcher, the Banshees aren't all that hard if you wipe the mooks first.

[tanisha__unknown]

If I rely on my experience from multiplayer on gold, I'd recommend the Valiant. BW is more powerfull, but you have to be able to handle the recoil. If you can't do that, go for the Valiant. It's easy to use and kills fast as you probably found out by now.

[Tenshi]

you dont have to decide.. really... i use javelin just for looks, and chilling through campaign like a boss :-D
insanity so easy. :-)

Modifié par xxx2emo4Uxxx, 14 juillet 2012 - 11:21 .

[Lee80]

Oy, I wish I had the valiant in single player. They better release the collectors edition guns in a pack soon. :-/

[staindgrey]

For myself, Valiant was awesome on Normal, but not nearly as effective on Insanity. It took too many shots to kill stuff. Meanwhile, when I finally coughed up my horded credits to get a BW X, the game became easy mode.

You can get two headshots out with the concentration scope while still receiving the cloak damage bonus. Then fire your last one, reload, cloak, repeat. You barely have to be out of cover while not cloaked. Ever.

[incinerator950]

Black Widow, despite how overrated it is.