560 réponses à ce sujet

[Decomposey]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Hmm, am I the only female not bothered by the idea of her PC and Alistair not having children?

Not at all, personally I hate children.  But I love loopholes.  You see my delimma?

[bobsmyuncle]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

eh is it really that hard to understand that some girls just want a normal relationship that results in, you know, a normal family? meaning both partners are faithful to each other under any and all circumstances? that the wife be the mother of the children and the husband be the father of the children? maybe I am just too traditional, or something, but that kind of stuff is special. at least to alistair and my noble pc (who i identify the most with).

and i don't mind working or suffering for that ending, if there's any possibility of it happening. i just think it's one of those things can't be compromised with mistresses (even though it already is with morrigan) or other bed mates. i know that the whole premise of the DA series is that it's a dark fantasy, but i would hope that it doesn't necessarily mean that regardless of whatever our actions or however hard we fight/work the outcome will always be tragic or sad.

It's not remotely hard to understand. That's the ideal fantasy life for a lot of people. I'd like that to be my life. I wanted my PC to have that.

Up to now, Bioware games have been this way (possible exception for Mass Effect, since the first game didn't exactly end on an "up" note and the series itself is ongoing). You defeat evil with your wish fulfillment lover and then the characters ride off into the sunset together, presumably to have 2.5 children and a dog, or keep going on adventures, or whatever the player wants to imagine they do.

I guess it just isn't what the writers/designers wanted to do in this case. I found it a really good twist, honestly, because based on my expectations of what a "Bioware game" is, I didn't expect Alistair to flat out tell me that he'd put duty over his own happiness and dump me if it came to it and I was peeved that my PC wouldn't get everything the way she wanted it. Including having to ask Alistair to sleep with someone else in order to keep him alive. It sucks but I did not see that coming and it made me mad (though not necessarily at Morrigan; I do like her even if I seem to be a minority among the girlsquad) which in my book makes it a good game. I still love Planescape Torment even if my OTP (Nameless One/Annah) is doomed and it turns out the main character has been a colossal jerk a million times over and fully deserves to go to DnD hell, because it was well written and I cared what happened. Even if I don't think DAO is quite on the same level (I loved the philosophy ****** in PST but I don't see it making for a bestselling RPG either), I like the fact that the devs are playing with some new plot twists rather rehashing the old ones. Bioware as a company has gotten flak for reusing plot points and I'd like to see them get kudos when they try something new, even if it doesn't please everyone.

[Thiefy]

bobsmyuncle wrote...
It's not remotely hard to understand. That's the ideal fantasy life for a lot of people. I'd like that to be my life. I wanted my PC to have that.

Up to now, Bioware games have been this way (possible exception for Mass Effect, since the first game didn't exactly end on an "up" note and the series itself is ongoing). You defeat evil with your wish fulfillment lover and then the characters ride off into the sunset together, presumably to have 2.5 children and a dog, or keep going on adventures, or whatever the player wants to imagine they do.

I guess it just isn't what the writers/designers wanted to do in this case. I found it a really good twist, honestly, because based on my expectations of what a "Bioware game" is, I didn't expect Alistair to flat out tell me that he'd put duty over his own happiness and dump me if it came to it and I was peeved that my PC wouldn't get everything the way she wanted it. Including having to ask Alistair to sleep with someone else in order to keep him alive. It sucks but I did not see that coming and it made me mad (though not necessarily at Morrigan; I do like her even if I seem to be a minority among the girlsquad) which in my book makes it a good game. I still love Planescape Torment even if my OTP (Nameless One/Annah) is doomed and it turns out the main character has been a colossal jerk a million times over and fully deserves to go to DnD hell, because it was well written and I cared what happened. Even if I don't think DAO is quite on the same level (I loved the philosophy ****** in PST but I don't see it making for a bestselling RPG either), I like the fact that the devs are playing with some new plot twists rather rehashing the old ones. Bioware as a company has gotten flak for reusing plot points and I'd like to see them get kudos when they try something new, even if it doesn't please everyone.

I wouldn't know that, this is my first bioware game. I didn't even know I could play a girl until I got the game. I don't mind imperfect endings either, but for some people there are just some compromises they can't make because the ends do not justify the means. It's bad enough I had to pressure Alistair to impregnate the one woman in the world he hates more than anything to create another bastard child. As if his complex wasn't bad enough, he now creates essentially a miniture version of himself, with the added bonus of super magical powers, an evil soul, and one, in his terms, 'b*tch' of a mother. And maybe some people don't think it was cheating but I do. When you are with someone you are loyal to them, 100%. Emotionally and physcially. Just because you are aware of it doesn't make it any less wrong.

I dunno maybe I'd just like to think there's something a bit more noble to a relationship than living and having sex? Huh, crazy me then.

I mean if Alistair would take away my decision to kill the archdemon and launch himself at it last minute in order to save my pc, I'd like to think that my PC would do something equally as noble in order to protect him and their love rather than just sending him off to some other woman to bear his son. Hell if she had to become a quadriplegic she'd do it.

[Ariella]

David Gaider wrote...

As far as anyone (including Alistair) knows, under normal circumstances two Grey Wardens cannot have children with each other. I didn't mention unknown exceptions because they're unknown -- that should just be assumed. And that's just the way it is.

So is Morrigan likes the female PC enough and leaves her a surprise "going away, thanks for the God baby" gift... It's okay. So at least one of my fictions is still on track.

As a side note, does being the father of Morrigan's baby make Alistair a "God father"?

Hey I'm just making it up as I go along.

[specter7237]

Original182 wrote...

Well even if it seems futile, you must ensure the Theirin bloodline continues. The bloodline symbolizes something really important to Ferelden, so you must do whatever it takes to ensure it continues.

Or screw the Theirin bloodline lol.  It's your choice.

[specter7237]

Herr Uhl wrote...

What benefits, sensing darkspawn?

There are no perks despite sensing darkspawn and killing archdemons.

What about all the stories about "Warden Endurance"?

[AtreiyaN7]

Decomposey wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Hmm, am I the only female not bothered by the idea of her PC and Alistair not having children?

Not at all, personally I hate children.  But I love loopholes.  You see my delimma?

*chuckle* 

[bobsmyuncle]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

I wouldn't know that, this is my first bioware game. I didn't even know I could play a girl until I got the game. I don't mind imperfect endings either, but for some people there are just some compromises they can't make because the ends do not justify the means. It's bad enough I had to pressure Alistair to impregnate the one woman in the world he hates more than anything to create another bastard child. As if his complex wasn't bad enough, he now creates essentially a miniture version of himself, with the added bonus of super magical powers, an evil soul, and one, in his terms, 'b*tch' of a mother. And maybe some people don't think it was cheating but I do. When you are with someone you are loyal to them, 100%. Emotionally and physcially. Just because you are aware of it doesn't make it any less wrong.

I dunno maybe I'd just like to think there's something a bit more noble to a relationship than living and having sex? Huh, crazy me then.

I mean if Alistair would take away my decision to kill the archdemon and launch himself at it last minute in order to save my pc, I'd like to think that my PC would do something equally as noble in order to protect him and their love rather than just sending him off to some other woman to bear his son. Hell if she had to become a quadriplegic she'd do it.

My bad, I guess I assumed everyone had at least a couple Bioware games under their belt. Well, take my word for it, NWN:HotU, BG2 (even if I didn't like Anomen, some did and there are plenty of mods to add other guys/gals), KotOR, Jade Empire, and Mass Effect all have happy uncomplicated romance plots. At least from the perspective of a typical romance plot (guy+girl meet, attraction, tension, crisis, resolution, happily ever after). DAO is the first one that turned around and kicked my behind.

Anyway, from my perspective of that night with Morrigan, it wasn't Alistair that cheated, it was the PC. The female PC pushes him to it, she's the one who breaks the boundaries of the relationship, if that makes sense.

I don't like it much either, and I'm sure glad it's not my life, but I think it makes for an interesting story. And if you personally strenuously object to Alistair sleeping with Morrigan to save both your lives, it's also possible for either of you to do the duty you were conscripted to do and die killing the Archdemon. It's not a happily-ever-after but you don't have to compromise your morals either. If it was me, IRL, I'd prefer one of us die. Since it's just a game and I don't have to live with the guilt (I have overactive guilt glands), I go ahead and give my character the happiest of unhappy endings.

But I could be used to stories like this. One of my favorite fantasy books ("The Golden Key") features a plot where the heir to the throne offers his beloved a "shadow marriage" (ie, be his mistress) because he has to marry another woman and conceive an heir in order to cement a treaty. It was horrible and painful and I loved it.

[XOGHunter246]

The most realistic thing to do is not make him king and spend your lives with him as warden then a child isn't no issue who is to say you can't marry him if he not king :/. My point was in royalty it expected to have a heir and two wardens make this impossible.

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 17 décembre 2009 - 09:32 .

[M-Taylor]

I'm failing to understand why people are making such a big deal out of this?

So, they can't conceive naturally.. but this is a world with magic, dragons and darkspawn. Does conceiving naturally really matter in the end?

Hell, of the top of my head, you could write a fanfiction collum on how your PC turns to blood magic to impregnate her with Alistairs baby, but the payment is her dying in child birth. Wasn't that hard, was it? >_>

The developers have said that naturally is impossible.. so use Fereldens kind of fertitilty treatment, magic! ^^

[LynxAQ]

Sorry but I am gonna have to not be the fanboy this time round and disagree completely with David. (I will probably get pitchforked and hung) But having 2 people who have a low chance to have children trying to have children DOES NOT equal not being able to have children. Not sure where this low IQ idea comes from... it will be harder but not impossible.



If 2 grey wardens cant have children, then 1 grey warden cant have children either even with untainted people. Fertility doesnt work like you have going. I also refuse to believe you are that ignorant of fertility etc to actually think that 2 people who have low fertility chances trying to have a baby = no babies... its like a pre-schoolers thinking.



And to correct you about your own game, Alistair does not say its impossible for 2 grey wardens to have children. He says something along the lines of 1 grey warden struggles to have children, so 2 will be even harder. (He does not say its impossible) You then get the option to say something to the lines of, well at least there will be no lack of trying. Also when I got there he didnt try to break up with my human female noble at all.. so dont know where you get that nonsense as well.



I usually agree with what you say but this time I can't as low fertility problem is something some real life friends struggled with a while ago, but now they have 2 great little kids. Both where told by doctors they had low chance of conception, but noting physically wrong with them, they just had to keep trying.



Basically if 2 grey wardens cant have children, that means there is something wrong with them, and also means that even 1 grey warden with an untainted person cant have children either. If you think fertility works the way you describe it then you obviously not as intelligent as I thought.



*I have barricaded myself in a windmill for the fanboys with there pitchforks.* I am prepared!

[westiex9]

Why can't allistair and the warden just pull a madonna and adopt a kid? i mean if worse comes to worse im sure fergus or Teeeeeeghhhhhhhaaaaan could be convinced to make a few new Princes.

Or better yet just buy one from some unfortunate family and raise as their own without anyone being the wiser

Goldanna: oi!!! what are you doing with me child
Warden pc: shut it you venomous shrew!! now take these sovereigns and keep that infernal trap shut
(leaving the House)
Allistair: errrr fiona where did you get that baby from? you havn't been out baby stealing again have you
Warden pc: me steal a child  of course not i just purchased it from that uuuuhhhhmmm.....that new Tevinter baby shop in the market Errrr...yes thats right!

Allistair: we are taking that baby back
Warden pc: .....meany!!!
(storms off)

Modifié par westiex9, 17 décembre 2009 - 11:56 .

[XOGHunter246]

acceptance is hard i know

[Kohaku]

XOGHunter246 wrote...

acceptance is hard i know

Isn't it?

[cutieyum]

Morrigan points out the 'legendary' endurance of Grey Wardens. If Templar-wonderboy does the daily workout with Anora, and keeps himself in shape, he may get an heir. He only needs lessn than 5% of the swimmers in working condition.

Now, Anora was married for 5 YEARS, and never had an heir. That's a reason for worry. Pre-Renaissance, noble English women were able to ask and receive a divorce for 2 reasons: male impotence and lack of children. Noble women notoriously worried about conceiving a child during the first year of marriage, in order to cement the political alliance. Anora seems very blase about the lack of 'fertility' on the throne of Ferelden.

Modifié par cutieyum, 17 décembre 2009 - 01:24 .

[SarEnyaDor]

I've said it before, Anora is a cold-fish... if you do all the endings you'll see you'll never get an heir out of her. Don't subject poor Alistair to that harpy!!

[cutieyum]

David Gaider wrote...

A Grey Warden can have a child... just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen... and the child is not tainted in any fashion.

We must get this 'taint' to the hospital biosafety level 4 lab, in order to study its effect on the reproduction system of mice and rats, most specifically on the female rats. It sounds suspicious that there's 'no possilbe heir' with the female PC.

Railroad!

[Ulicus]

LynxAQ wrote...

Sorry but I am gonna have to not be the fanboy this time round and disagree completely with David. (I will probably get pitchforked and hung) But having 2 people who have a low chance to have children trying to have children DOES NOT equal not being able to have children. Not sure where this low IQ idea comes from... it will be harder but not impossible.

I am consistently amazed by how rude people can be on these forums. I mean, dude, seriously -- disagreement is fine and dandy but why start insulting people's IQ? What's with the "pre-schooler" dig? How are those comments anything other than self-defeating? If this is the general level of criticism that the developers are faced with -- and it certainly seems common -- I marvel at their continued presence here.

"Hanged", btw. Getting hung would just give you a selling point.

[Kohaku]

Ulicus wrote...

LynxAQ wrote...

Sorry but I am gonna have to not be the fanboy this time round and disagree completely with David. (I will probably get pitchforked and hung) But having 2 people who have a low chance to have children trying to have children DOES NOT equal not being able to have children. Not sure where this low IQ idea comes from... it will be harder but not impossible.

I am consistently amazed by how rude people can be on these forums. I mean, dude, seriously -- disagreement is fine and dandy but why start insulting people's IQ? What's with the "pre-schooler" dig? How are those comments anything other than self-defeating? If this is the general level of criticism that the developers are faced with -- and it certainly seems common -- I marvel at their continued presence here.

"Hanged", btw. Getting hung would just give you a selling point.

I said the same thing in another thread the other day. They have more patience than I have in my pinky fingernail.

[cutieyum]

bobsmyuncle wrote...

Inakhia wrote...

No your not the only one whos not bothered by no kids. I consider it mildly important for the Theirin bloodline and Ferelden, but that's nothing that can't be bypassed by a handy mistress for Al to conceive with. If my consort char really decided that she wanted kids as well, especially considering her family had been nearly annihilated... well as noted above, there's always Teagan or Zev who I'm sure would be moer than willing to donate a little genetic material.
Its not like nobility and a basketful full of bastards running around are anything new, just ask poor Sergeant Kylon. At least our bastards would be properly raised and trained. =D

As interesting as the idea of borrowing Teagan is, I'm not sure if Alistair could handle an open relationship. And if both the King and Queen were separately bed-hopping... well, the gossip at your PC's court would certainly never be boring

Ladies, I like how you think.

bobsmyuncle, I too liked Morrigan, and I wasn't disturbed by Alistair baby-making with her. Necessities...

The Human Noble origin was dissapointing as the game progressed because the game-interactions ignored the importance of family for my PC. Her family has been wiped out, and she is going to let her blood line to end, I don't think so, I don't think so. Her mother and father empasized the importance of family blood before and after the castle was assaulted. The father asks the PC to make sure that the Cousland bloodline doesn't die, and to go with Duncan, a bit contradictory there. Sure, Fergus is found alive, but his kid and wife are dead. Traditionally noble females worried and did their share of bed hoping and marriage alliances to get that heir. The game is fiction, but I felt that the world and the PC didn't have agency, real human base desires, like mating. Plenty of sexy talk, no actual results.

For a female noble, whose family was thought to be completely wiped, Alistair is the TICKET to getting the castle and lands back to the family (Fergus) and getting my bloodline into the throne. Heck, my PC would have married Morrigan's child to Fergus' future kid in order to keep my family in 'play'. Monstruous to our modern viewpoint, maybe. But I was RPing a smart noblewoman, whose mother was a tough cookie, and knew that girls that play by the rules, don't get to RULE.

Modifié par cutieyum, 17 décembre 2009 - 01:44 .

[LynxAQ]

Ulicus wrote...

LynxAQ wrote...

Sorry but I am gonna have to not be the fanboy this time round and disagree completely with David. (I will probably get pitchforked and hung) But having 2 people who have a low chance to have children trying to have children DOES NOT equal not being able to have children. Not sure where this low IQ idea comes from... it will be harder but not impossible.

I am consistently amazed by how rude people can be on these forums. I mean, dude, seriously -- disagreement is fine and dandy but why start insulting people's IQ? What's with the "pre-schooler" dig? How are those comments anything other than self-defeating? If this is the general level of criticism that the developers are faced with -- and it certainly seems common -- I marvel at their continued presence here.

"Hanged", btw. Getting hung would just give you a selling point.

I think your reading comprehension of my post was slightly lacking my good friend. I insulted the idea, not him. I did not say " Dunno how your low IQ brain came up with this idea" - I did say "Not sure where this low IQ idea comes from.". Big difference.

I said later in my post which you conveniently editted out I did not believe he was that unintelligent to actually think that way.

I like David and enjoyed his books, but this part I can not agree with because it makes zero sense and is pretty ignorant of fertility and conception.

[LynxAQ]

But I do openly admit my post does sound alot more hostile than I intended. Just reread it, perhaps I should do that more often. But the idea was attacked not the man. If I hated the man I would not have read the books.

[Apophis2412]

So if Alistair and the female PC die, Fergus will be king?!?!?!? Ferelden is doomed!!!





If any of you fangirls want to live long and happy with Alistair, there is always the Anvil of the Void.

[Imryll]

I pondered this a bit overnight, and I keep coming back to who the PC is and Alistair's credibility as an expert on Grey Warden lore, and I can't see the PC accepting infertility as an unsurmountable obstacle. She might be wrong, but I don't think she would be likely to see her marriage to Alistair as meaning there would be no heir. At the time of the decision, she would already have solved numerous "insoluble" problems. And Alastair didn't know how to do the Joining, didn't know how to kill an Archdemon, didn't know how to contact foreign Grey Wardens, and was told "You'll see" when he asked Duncan about the physical changes experienced by Grey Wardens. Why would she be ready to hang such an important decision on his having fully understood this single fact? Cheap wishful thinking and any ambiguity in what Alistair actually says aside, I can't see "Well if you say so, I guess we shouldn't marry" as being in character. Alistair could be wrong or at least have missed some fine print. Those few ashes clinging to the surface of the pouch after Arl Eamon was healed might be beneficial. And finally, the PC has already consented to Alistair fathering Morrigan's child. If it proved that Alistair was right about their not being able to have children together, and it were necessary to secure the succession, why would her scruples about another woman mothering that child be greater than her scruples about the God Baby? Anyway, expecting her to give up without trying seems like a denial of the character the PC has established in the course of the game.

[SarEnyaDor]

Bah, do what I did - tell him that if you don't have an heir it won't be from lack of trying - I mean seriously if you do it enough, one of the swimmers is bound to get through eventually right?



And if not, oh well, name your successor in your will, set up a sponsorship of Tegan's or Fergus's future children, tell Anora if she ever pries her legs apart and pops out a kid her kid can be the next monarch.



Where there is a will there is a way.