560 réponses à ce sujet

[Taleroth]

XOGHunter246 wrote...

acceptance is hard i know

Screw acceptance.

*goes off into fantasyland*

[Gecon]

Nosuchluck wrote...

You know that the life span in medieval times was usually 20-30? Chances are the infection allows you to live longer than the normal person due to the benefits.

The AVERAGE lifespan.

Which was that low because many children didnt made it and died very early.

Still many people survived and reached age 60 and older.

[Gecon]

Nosuchluck wrote...

Aren't grey warden's supposed to be super spechial? I assumed it gave you better reflexes or some nonsense like that.

Err, you must confused DA with the Witcher.

Where the Witchers are completely unable to ever procreate, but also live much longer lifespans than ordinary people.

The only reason Grey Wardens are better than the average person of the country is that they where handselected. Not that the taint gives them anything special, aside from the ability to sense darkspawn.

[tigrina]

David Gaider wrote...

A Grey Warden can have a child... just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen... and the child is not tainted in any fashion.

Ok, I'm assuming the same goes for a non-warden and a female warden? That the child is untainted? Same would go for if 2 wardens get a child miraculously?

And Morrigan's ritual is in part to ensure that there is some baby and it is actually tainted, right? Till the magic with the archdemonoldgoldsoulthingy takes place.

It is hard to grasp these kind of lore bits when real life biology bites back in your head all the time. I had assumed that if a grey warden was pregnant herself the child would be tainted. The Calling is so different in this regard that it doesn't really count as 'normal procedure' in my head.

Modifié par tigrina, 17 décembre 2009 - 03:58 .

[David Gaider]

tigrina wrote...
Ok, I'm assuming the same goes for a non-warden and a female warden? That the child is untainted? Same would go for if 2 wardens get a child miraculously?

Right.

And Morrigan's ritual is in part to ensure that there is some baby and it is actually tainted, right? Till the magic with the archdemonoldgoldsoulthingy takes place.

It might not be tainted. All she needs is a connection to the Archdemon's soul in order to draw it. If the baby is actually corrupted, then yes -- that would have taken some special magic in order to make it so.

It is hard to grasp these kind of lore bits when real life biology bites back in your head all the time. I had assumed that if a grey warden was pregnant herself the child would be tainted. The Calling is so different in this regard that it doesn't really count as 'normal procedure' in my head.

Well, if you like, consider some real-world biology: in utero infants are regularly protected against infections of the mother. The placenta criculates the blood of both the mother and the infant in order to draw nutrients that the child needs, but their blood does not actually mix.

How much you can actually apply real-world biology in the case where magic is involved, however, is debateable. Maybe that's just one of my "low IQ" ideas, however, I dunno.

[Ariella]

LynxAQ wrote...

I like David and enjoyed his books, but this part I can not agree with because it makes zero sense and is pretty ignorant of fertility and conception.

Actually it does make sense, if you happen to be part of a lay audience who doesn't really care about the mechanics of conception, or hasn't had those mechanincs shoved in your face because you or someone you care about has had severe reproductive issues.

Being in the latter group (the severe reproductive issues nearly killed me in my case) my thoughts are that the true conception stage probably happens just as readily for Grey Wardens as for anyone else (ie the one in a million shot... yes actually conceiving even under the best of circustances is difficult, which is the reason we call it the miracle of life). It's probably the viability of said embryo that's the killer. Either there tends to be something wrong with the embryo itself that causes a spontaneous abortion or the embryo can't implant and passes through the system also causing spontaneous abortion.

I'm also willing to bet that I lost half the readers at the word "viability", which just makes David's answer all the more reasonable, because most people don't want to hear this stuff. :innocent:

Edit: I'd also say (and David can correct me if I'm wrong) that the taint is inimical to life as we know it. According to The Calling, darkspawn don't heal as much as revert to their former state (like vampires are supposed to). And of course there's what the taint does pretty much to every living thing it comes in contact with (without certain interventions), so it wouldn't surprise me that the taint retards reproduction in a Warden/Non-Warden pairing and makes it improbable in a pairing of wardens.

Modifié par Ariella, 17 décembre 2009 - 04:32 .

[David Gaider]

LynxAQ wrote...
If 2 grey wardens cant have children, then 1 grey warden cant have children either even with untainted people. Fertility doesnt work like you have going. I also refuse to believe you are that ignorant of fertility etc to actually think that 2 people who have low fertility chances trying to have a baby = no babies... its like a pre-schoolers thinking.

Ah. I didn't realize you were an authority on how darkspawn corruption affects human biology. My mistake.

And to correct you about your own game, Alistair does not say its impossible for 2 grey wardens to have children. He says something along the lines of 1 grey warden struggles to have children, so 2 will be even harder. (He does not say its impossible) You then get the option to say something to the lines of, well at least there will be no lack of trying. Also when I got there he didnt try to break up with my human female noble at all.. so dont know where you get that nonsense as well.

I never said that Alistair says it is impossible. I said it was impossible. Alistair's knowledge is not complete -- he's only never heard of it happening, he's not a scholar who's reciting facts.

What I said is that Alistair brings it up, which he does. And if you haven't switched his hardening variable he *does* break up with you.

I usually agree with what you say but this time I can't as low fertility problem is something some real life friends struggled with a while ago, but now they have 2 great little kids. Both where told by doctors they had low chance of conception, but noting physically wrong with them, they just had to keep trying.

I'm going to go ahead and assume that neither of your friends were infected with the darkspawn taint. Just a hunch, but I'm crazy that way. I sympathize with their problem, but I am not suggesting that the problem here is low fertility. It is darkspawn corruption.

Basically if 2 grey wardens cant have children, that means there is something wrong with them, and also means that even 1 grey warden with an untainted person cant have children either. If you think fertility works the way you describe it then you obviously not as intelligent as I thought.

If you prefer to think that, then by all means. It doesn't affect the game, and the fact that two Grey Wardens will never have a child together in game can be explained any way you wish if that makes you feel better. There's clearly no point in arguing with you, since any argument I come up with would be the unintelligent thoughts of a pre-schooler, I guess.

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 décembre 2009 - 04:21 .

[eschilde]

David Gaider wrote...

What I said is that Alistair brings it up, which he does. And if you haven't switched his hardening variable he *does* break up with you.

Not if you put out! A lesson for all of us, I think ^^

Seriously though, whether or not to take a dev's information into account with your character is up to the player. This isn't something that's explicitly stated in game so I think players thinking whatever they want isn't necessarily a bad thing >.> if I never read the forums I wouldn't have known. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

[SarEnyaDor]

Actually, maybe it is a bug, but with a really high persuasion a soft Alistair doesn't break up with you on the 360, he accepts your "it won't be for lack of trying" response... maybe the game treats the rolls the same as if he was hardened after a certain point? I did have max coercion and 40+ cunning.

[David Gaider]

eschilde wrote...
Seriously though, whether or not to take a dev's information into account with your character is up to the player. This isn't something that's explicitly stated in game so I think players thinking whatever they want isn't necessarily a bad thing >.> if I never read the forums I wouldn't have known. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Indeed. A question about the lore was asked and thus answered. Alistair didn't say (and doesn't know) "it is 100% impossible for two Grey Wardens to have a child". He's only been a Grey Warden for a short while, and all he knows is he's never heard of it happening.

*I*, however, am telling you what the lore is. That may not concern you, but I am indeed saying that Alistair and the PC he's married to will come to find that they cannot have children together. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will eventually come along and say "you know, two Grey Wardens being married in a situation where children are required is not a great idea"... but until that point all Alistair knows is that it will likely be very hard if not impossible.

You didn't get ALL the hard facts prior to making your decision? Welcome to Dragon Age.

And like I said, if you really prefer to think otherwise, then do so. The lore that exists outside the game is pretty much outside the game -- someone wringing their hands and taking it as a personal condemnation because their in-game avatar might be in an infertile relationship and that this is insufficient fantasy fulfillment seems a bit melodramatic to me. Considering all the other sacrifices you make to get where you are, is it so startling to discover that a consequence-free HEA might not be in the cards?

I'm not suggesting anyone find this result completely happy-making. We weren't going for blissful satisfaction, here. But this is how it is. And I'm beginning to think I just shouldn't have said anything at all, to be honest.

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 décembre 2009 - 04:57 .

[tigrina]

David Gaider wrote...

tigrina wrote...
Ok, I'm assuming the same goes for a non-warden and a female warden? That the child is untainted? Same would go for if 2 wardens get a child miraculously?

Right.

And Morrigan's ritual is in part to ensure that there is some baby and it is actually tainted, right? Till the magic with the archdemonoldgoldsoulthingy takes place.

It might not be tainted. All she needs is a connection to the Archdemon's soul in order to draw it. If the baby is actually corrupted, then yes -- that would have taken some special magic in order to make it so.

Well, at the point where magic comes join the mix, logic is kinda flying out of the window. Just part of the world, I can live with that. I do wonder now whether there is something else then the taint for the connection to the Archdemons soul though.

It is hard to grasp these kind of lore bits when real life biology bites back in your head all the time. I had assumed that if a grey warden was pregnant herself the child would be tainted. The Calling is so different in this regard that it doesn't really count as 'normal procedure' in my head.

Well, if you like, consider some real-world biology: in utero infants are regularly protected against infections of the mother. The placenta criculates the blood of both the mother and the infant in order to draw nutrients that the child needs, but their blood does not actually mix.

Except at childbirth, yes. The taint feels for me as some 'disease' that not only is in your blood, but creeps up to every little bit of you though, since it changes you so much in the long run. In that case it would be 'logical' in my mind to have the child also carry the taint. I don't mind at all to be proven wrong though. Thanks for clearing that up!

How much you can actually apply real-world biology in the case where magic is involved, however, is debateable. Maybe that's just one of my "low IQ" ideas, however, I dunno.

Truth is always stranger then fiction , or so I'm told. My feelings about the taint story-wise still points to some form of curse. Right up till I'm proven otherwise.
 

Modifié par tigrina, 17 décembre 2009 - 04:59 .

[Ulicus]

David Gaider wrote...

It might not be tainted. All she needs is a connection to the Archdemon's soul in order to draw it. If the baby is actually corrupted, then yes -- that would have taken some special magic in order to make it so.

What would that connection be if not the taint, though? I can understand why people might be confused, I think, given that on the one hand she says (whether she's being truthful or not) that "the child will bear the taint" and, on the other, that she says she's interested in the Old God being reborn "apart from the taint".

It's not like it has to be the father who strikes the killing blow, either.

Is it possible that the "tainted" part of the baby gets "used up" in drawing the soul to her? (I suppose you can't answer that question, actually). Either way, I assume there's a reason that the baby is a "beacon" above and beyond the nearest tainted creatures.

[LynxAQ]

- I never ment that at as an attack against you personally David, and if you have taken it that way I do apologise. I did enjoy your books. I just dont agree with you on this thing where 2 wardens cant have children but 1 can? Whats the reason behind it? It cant be because chances are "low", because 2 people with low chance doesnt equal 0 chance. I am one of those people who dont just accept because I said so type answers. I need a reason behind it and nothing has been given.



But if my original post came across as attacking you, it wasnt, it was attacking your idea that 2 wardens cant have children.



But hey ho thats just me - I do come across as blunt alot of the time. But then again I dont exactly come here to make friends, but more to discuss, help stuck people and just read and occasionally have heated discussions by pushing all the wrong buttons. What can I say, I am one of those people who just liek to push all the wrong buttons!

[David Gaider]

Ulicus wrote...
Either way, I assume there's a reason that the baby is a "beacon" above and beyond the nearest tainted creatures.

Right -- if the only reason that the Archdemon is drawn is because the baby is tainted, then she would have needed to be the one nearest to the Archdemon when the deathblow was made. She doesn't -- so clearly there is some other process at work. I suppose Morrigan could have gone into an in-depth discussion of how this works, but I think that a) that would have been cumbersome and being vague was probably in her best interest.

[Kohaku]

David Gaider wrote...

eschilde wrote...
Seriously though, whether or not to take a dev's information into account with your character is up to the player. This isn't something that's explicitly stated in game so I think players thinking whatever they want isn't necessarily a bad thing >.> if I never read the forums I wouldn't have known. Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?

Indeed. A question about the lore was asked and thus answered. Alistair didn't say (and doesn't know) "it is 100% impossible for two Grey Wardens to have a child". He's only been a Grey Warden for a short while, and all he knows is he's never heard of it happening.

*I*, however, am telling you what the lore is. That may not concern you, but I am indeed saying that Alistair and the PC he's married to will come to find that they cannot have children together. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable will eventually come along and say "you know, two Grey Wardens being married in a situation where children are required is not a great idea"... but until that point all Alistair knows is that it will likely be very hard if not impossible.

You didn't get ALL the hard facts prior to making your decision? Welcome to Dragon Age.

And like I said, if you really prefer to think otherwise, then do so. The lore that exists outside the game is pretty much outside the game -- someone wringing their hands and taking it as a personal condemnation because their in-game avatar might be in an infertile relationship and that this is insufficient fantasy fulfillment seems a bit melodramatic to me. Considering all the other sacrifices you make to get where you are, is it so startling to discover that a consequence-free HEA might not be in the cards?

I'm not suggesting anyone find this result completely happy-making. We weren't going for blissful satisfaction, here. But this is how it is. And I'm beginning to think I just shouldn't have said anything at all, to be honest.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm glad you did. I like fact over some made up farce.

[David Gaider]

LynxAQ wrote...
I never ment that at as an attack against you personally David, and if you have taken it that way I do apologise.

Then you need to work on your communication skills.

Apology accepted.

[Taleroth]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I like fact over some made up farce.

When it comes to fiction, is there really a difference?

Modifié par Taleroth, 17 décembre 2009 - 05:03 .

[tigrina]

David Gaider wrote...

Ulicus wrote...
Either way, I assume there's a reason that the baby is a "beacon" above and beyond the nearest tainted creatures.

Right -- if the only reason that the Archdemon is drawn is because the baby is tainted, then she would have needed to be the one nearest to the Archdemon when the deathblow was made. She doesn't -- so clearly there is some other process at work. I suppose Morrigan could have gone into an in-depth discussion of how this works, but I think that a) that would have been cumbersome and being vague was probably in her best interest.

Yes, but that doesn't mean we're not out here to pull every single bit of lore out of you while we can! I must admit I've been spending a lot of time on what she told me about it and making a decision though. But that is just a personal thing, I suppose.

Just want to add that I totally admire your patience on the boards.

[ReubenLiew]

Taleroth wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I like fact over some made up farce.

When it comes to fiction, is there really a difference?

Of course there is! Are you, ser, in fact implying there might be female space marines?

[Taleroth]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I like fact over some made up farce.

When it comes to fiction, is there really a difference?

Of course there is! Are you, ser, in fact implying there might be female space marines?

One of the two missing chapters!  The other, of course, being the Angry Marines.


FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Kohaku]

Taleroth wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I like fact over some made up farce.

When it comes to fiction, is there really a difference?

True. ~Shrugs~

[SarEnyaDor]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I like fact over some made up farce.

When it comes to fiction, is there really a difference?

Of course there is! Are you, ser, in fact implying there might be female space marines?

You made me snort

[Kohaku]

ReubenLiew wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

I like fact over some made up farce.

When it comes to fiction, is there really a difference?

Of course there is! Are you, ser, in fact implying there might be female space marines?

Duh. We talked about this ealier before you stole my armor. They wear maids outfits.

[Taleroth]

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Duh. We talked about this ealier before you stole my armor.

That cur!

[Kohaku]

Taleroth wrote...

Kerridan Kaiba wrote...

Duh. We talked about this ealier before you stole my armor.

That cur!

Isn't he. I cried.