211 réponses à ce sujet

[Meneldhil]

Another case of retard gameplay feature. I don't like D&D much, but at least it was a working and thouroughly tested system.



DA:O gameplay and mechanics make the game looks like a MMORPG alpha test.

[Fleapants]

The nom nom ability of the Reaver spec (Devour?) scales with magic too

[PhroXenGold]

IMO, potions should be percentage based rather than absolute anyway, but, meh, it's not a big deal...

Modifié par PhroXenGold, 16 décembre 2009 - 05:10 .

[MachDelta]

Tada.

[kevinwastaken]

One must admit (unless they are foolish) it is pretty silly to link health potions to the magic attribute when mages already get a magical heal.



Health poultices are made by herbalists, they are not magic. Unless we are assuming the plants they are made of are magical? That would just be goofy.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

I would agree on fixed amounts of health/mana restored. The "magic will become completely useless for warriors" argument is not cutting it, because nobody ever picks magic on warriors anyway, and whats with the double standard?

With my AW I spent 90% of my stat points into magic, increrasing  my benefits from modal abilities, my spell damage, physical attacks and "potion prowess" all by dumping into 1 stat.

Also magic governing the healing amount is silly, because as we said health pots are made from natural ingredients - how does being able to perceive magical energies help you get more out of elfroot extracts?

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 16 décembre 2009 - 05:21 .

[TheNecroFiend]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

How is it ridiculous? Potions are magical thusly how powerful the potion is, regardless of the potion, is determined by the Magic stat.

In fairness, they're not magical are they? Considering they use natural reagents and can be created by non-magic users, I doubt they're magical (non lyrium at least). Still, there's not really a more fitting way of increasing their yield.

Herbal drinks that cure sword wounds aren't magical?

[Zenon]

Well, if the potions are magic, perhaps a high affinity to magic can cause the character to use magical potions more efficiently? Some people get drunk from one glass of champagne, others drink a bottle of high-alcoholic rum and still stand straight...



I guess any game mechanic can work. To me CON would rather be about natural regeneration, while I can see a sense in Magic boosting magical potions' effects.



P.S.: I love RoleMaster, but have not enough players and time to play anymore. *sigh* (Hence my character's name, if you recognize the evil old sorcerer...)

[Heals.like.Jesus]

 

In
fairness, they're not magical are they? Considering they use natural
reagents and can be created by non-magic users, I doubt they're magical
(non lyrium at least). Still, there's not really a more fitting way of
increasing their yield.

Herbal drinks that cure sword wounds aren't magical? 

So all the natural ingridient medicines we have in our day and age in order to cure us of various illnesses are of arcane origin? If you cut yourself can only magic heal you?

Id love to pay a visit to the physician you go to.

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 16 décembre 2009 - 05:28 .

[FedericoV]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

How is it ridiculous? Potions are magical thusly how powerful the potion is, regardless of the potion, is determined by the Magic stat.

It's really ridiculous since Warrior (mostly) and Rogue (a little bit) have to invest in each stat, even Magic, while Mages really needs just one stat, maybe two.

I'm not talking of balance, even if it's an important issue, but of pure simmetry.

I love the game, replaying it for the second time, but I would never design a class based RPG system like that.

If you decide that all stats are useful for all classes, wich is a step in the right direction, then even Mages should be forced to choose between the 6 stats. Now they have only to choose between Willpower and Magic and you could argue the utility of Willpower since Lyrium Potions grow on trees.

[Darth_Shizz]

TheNecroFiend wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

How is it ridiculous? Potions are magical thusly how powerful the potion is, regardless of the potion, is determined by the Magic stat.

In fairness, they're not magical are they? Considering they use natural reagents and can be created by non-magic users, I doubt they're magical (non lyrium at least). Still, there's not really a more fitting way of increasing their yield.

Herbal drinks that cure sword wounds aren't magical?

If you wanted to extrapolate them to real life, then sure...they're as magical as you want them to be. But in a game with "real magic", no, not so much They're about as magical as any pc/player controlled npc's ability to evade the clutches of death whilst another party member still remains 0_o

[Emeraq]

I know it's not my game but putting points in magic for a warrior should have no bearing on the effect of drinking a potion... It's not the person that needs to be magical it's the damn potion... Now for healing spells, it makes perfect sense, but we aren't speaking spells here, we are speaking properties of the potion, not the individual drinking the potion.

[Rainen89]

FedericoV wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

How is it ridiculous? Potions are magical thusly how powerful the potion is, regardless of the potion, is determined by the Magic stat.

It's really ridiculous since Warrior (mostly) and Rogue (a little bit) have to invest in each stat, even Magic, while Mages really needs just one stat, maybe two.

I'm not talking of balance, even if it's an important issue, but of pure simmetry.

I love the game, replaying it for the second time, but I would never design a class based RPG system like that.

If you decide that all stats are useful for all classes, wich is a step in the right direction, then even Mages should be forced to choose between the 6 stats. Now they have only to choose between Willpower and Magic and you could argue the utility of Willpower since Lyrium Potions grow on trees.

While I'll admit it was a stupid idea, have you seen the benefits of having high cunning score? Something no mage would have. It's very, very awesome and not just for persuasion.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Emeraq wrote...

I know it's not my game but putting points in magic for a warrior should have no bearing on the effect of drinking a potion... It's not the person that needs to be magical it's the damn potion... Now for healing spells, it makes perfect sense, but we aren't speaking spells here, we are speaking properties of the potion, not the individual drinking the potion.

Perhaps mages subtly increase the amount of healing liquid in the potion through magic, before drinking it and this is done passively, since battle mages are used to drinking during battle.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

Can you imagine what it would've been like if Diablo 2 used the same healing potion rules? High level barbarians would recover next to nothing from super health potions, because most barbarian players spend 2-3 levels in Magic attribute by level 70

[AntiGrav1ty]

Meneldhil wrote...

Another case of retard gameplay feature. I don't like D&D much, but at least it was a working and thouroughly tested system.

DA:O gameplay and mechanics make the game looks like a MMORPG alpha test.

Have to agree, the mechanics in DA:O are really lacking. And not only in a few aspects...

[Trajan60]

Magic increases the potency of poultices perfectly. Tongue twister.

[wanderon]

Doesn't seem ridiculous to me that characters with a high degree of magic could gain better results from drinking a potion.



Why is it any more difficult to realize that magic as an attribuute cannot only allow one to shoot fire from thier hands or a staff while adding cold damage to all the partys weapons at the same time or any of the other incredible things that magic can do but the idea that it can also effect that characters use of a mundane potion and that the more magical the character is the higher that effect is somehow boggles the mind?



just sayin...

[TheNecroFiend]

Darth_Shizz wrote...

TheNecroFiend wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

How is it ridiculous? Potions are magical thusly how powerful the potion is, regardless of the potion, is determined by the Magic stat.

In fairness, they're not magical are they? Considering they use natural reagents and can be created by non-magic users, I doubt they're magical (non lyrium at least). Still, there's not really a more fitting way of increasing their yield.

Herbal drinks that cure sword wounds aren't magical?

If you wanted to extrapolate them to real life, then sure...they're as magical as you want them to be. But in a game with "real magic", no, not so much They're about as magical as any pc/player controlled npc's ability to evade the clutches of death whilst another party member still remains 0_o

I wasn't extrapolating to real life. Look at how potions work in this game. You can chug them in the middle of a fight with a sliver of life and go to the perfect model of health before your done even swallowing. Those herbs must have some serious mojo to pull your guts back in place and sticth you up in the blink of an eye.

[Bibdy]

Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Can you imagine what it would've been like if Diablo 2 used the same healing potion rules? High level barbarians would recover next to nothing from super health potions, because most barbarian players spend 2-3 levels in Magic attribute by level 70

Yeah, not sure what they were thinking with this mechanic. It just penalises Rogues and Warriors even more for having a low Magic attribute, when their potions don't scale with ANYTHING they want to put points in.

Would have been much better to make it scale with CON, or total health pool or at least something that scales with a Warrior's health that can reach like 350-400 at the end of the game. A potent health poultice healing for 200 at that point seems rather useless.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

because health potions are not magical, and it makes much more sense that a healthy and tough body would benefit more from such a potion than a relatively frail one.

[Heals.like.Jesus]

TheNecroFiend wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

TheNecroFiend wrote...

Darth_Shizz wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

How is it ridiculous? Potions are magical thusly how powerful the potion is, regardless of the potion, is determined by the Magic stat.

In fairness, they're not magical are they? Considering they use natural reagents and can be created by non-magic users, I doubt they're magical (non lyrium at least). Still, there's not really a more fitting way of increasing their yield.

Herbal drinks that cure sword wounds aren't magical?

If you wanted to extrapolate them to real life, then sure...they're as magical as you want them to be. But in a game with "real magic", no, not so much They're about as magical as any pc/player controlled npc's ability to evade the clutches of death whilst another party member still remains 0_o

I wasn't extrapolating to real life. Look at how potions work in this game. You can chug them in the middle of a fight with a sliver of life and go to the perfect model of health before your done even swallowing. Those herbs must have some serious mojo to pull your guts back in place and sticth you up in the blink of an eye.

I dont see how saying that helps your argument in any way. If you
are going to run off with the cliche "its a fantasy game" excuse, you
might as well say Dexterity has the same reason as any other stat to
govern health recovered.

[Dark83]

There's nothing wrong with the mechanics.

A warrior in heavier armor takes less damage, and has higher defenses, as well as having a larger buffer of health. A mage takes more damage and has lower defenses, and is more frail. A lower quantity of health on a warrior is worth about the same as a higher quantity of health for a mage, in terms of survivability.

[Bibdy]

Dark83 wrote...

There's nothing wrong with the mechanics.
A warrior in heavier armor takes less damage, and has higher defenses, as well as having a larger buffer of health. A mage takes more damage and has lower defenses, and is more frail. A lower quantity of health on a warrior is worth about the same as a higher quantity of health for a mage, in terms of survivability.

Interesting viewpoint and I can see where you're coming from, but you have to consider all of the CC, defensive spells and even the Arcane Warrior specialisation (which is just overkill, really).

Mages are by no means defenseless.

Modifié par Bibdy, 16 décembre 2009 - 05:56 .

[Dark83]

Of course they're not, however, that's looking beyond health potions. I'm saying the varying quality of potions all restore roughly the same amount of survivability, in that context.

As in, Lesser restores ~5% ability to take hits, Greater restores ~15%, etc, regardless of the class of the character chugging it.