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What's the incentive to buy the DLC, when we know the game ends the way it does?


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#226
Renmiri1

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wizardryforever wrote...
So you're saying that you know better than the writers as to what they meant?  Right.  Regardless, the writers have the authority as to what can and can't happen in their setting.  You're free to no like it, but that's the way it is.

I also marvel at your ability to headcanon into existence only the negative, without considering the very positive way the ending is portrayed in all three endings (refusal is a glorified game-over, as it should be).  Not perfect, but it's hardly the garbled mess that so many claim it is, especially now.

Oh no, writers are free to retconn and make all they wrote before make no sense.

Just as we are free to call it BS.

#227
iggy4566

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wizardryforever wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

shurikenmanta wrote...

Because the ending is just a part of a whole to me.

I'm not the kind to stick up my nose at additional adventure just because I don't get an 'I win everything' ending.


Its the fact that the endings don't fit into the lore of Mass effect.

And who is it that decides what the lore of Mass Effect is?  Bioware.  Anything else is just your own personal headcanon.


That's the thing. They have disregarded the lore THEY ESTABLISHED in the previous games.

If a mass relay explodes the destruction of the star system it's in ensues. So in the original ending means everyone dies. But we are the ones who "don't get it". The EC just means everyone is isolated for the foreseable future. As in, no crew reunion for destroy Shepard. There isn't even a reason for the relays being damaged in any way whatsoever. The endings are broken and demonstrate that the writers didn't even bother to check their own cliff notes. It's funny that we are supposed to headcanon how it all turns out, but they have provided just enough to leave no room for anything but bleakness.

And lets not get into the fact that the options are all presented in a pre-packaged symmetrical forcked walkway. Odd that this stuff would on on the citadel at that place of all places considering the Catalyst never expected us. And then he has the power to turn the damn Crucible off (refusal) after not being able to just turn it off when you first arrive. It's just a mess. Anderson followed shepard into the conduit, but is ahead of him... ugh. No ability to challenge the Catalyst warped logic. It's simply not mass effect. There is no reason to even believe any of the new choices offered are anything but attempts to get Shepard to suicide himself. It's poorly written and clearly rushed. How did the Normandy get to some jungle world? They didn't even make it to the mass relay as the rainbow wave was faster than FTL. Does Sol have another garden world? The sol relay only goes to Arcturus which is a dying red giant. No garden worlds there. And for ships suddenly knocked out of FTL "the effects are catastrophic. The ship is snapped back to sublight velocity, the enormous excess energy shed in the form of lethal Cherenkov radiation."

And you think the ending makes sense given the lore BIOWARE THEMSELVES have established?

There is a valid reason for people to HOPE it was all a hallucination.

So you're saying that you know better than the writers as to what they meant?  Right.  Regardless, the writers have the authority as to what can and can't happen in their setting.  You're free to no like it, but that's the way it is.

I also marvel at your ability to headcanon into existence only the negative, without considering the very positive way the ending is portrayed in all three endings (refusal is a glorified game-over, as it should be).  Not perfect, but it's hardly the garbled mess that so many claim it is, especially now.


Umm so they can go off the lore they had for two games thats nice to hear.

#228
Necrotron

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RiouHotaru wrote...

So, because the trilogy ends, you don't care about the rest of the setting?

I see.


I think you missed their point entirely.

#229
wizardryforever

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Renmiri1 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
So you're saying that you know better than the writers as to what they meant?  Right.  Regardless, the writers have the authority as to what can and can't happen in their setting.  You're free to no like it, but that's the way it is.

I also marvel at your ability to headcanon into existence only the negative, without considering the very positive way the ending is portrayed in all three endings (refusal is a glorified game-over, as it should be).  Not perfect, but it's hardly the garbled mess that so many claim it is, especially now.

Oh no, writers are free to retconn and make all they wrote before make no sense.

Just as we are free to call it BS.

You can call it whatever you like.  You have that right.

But I'm going to trust the actual creators of the setting over some random shmuck on the internet.

#230
The Twilight God

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wizardryforever wrote...

So you're saying that you know better than the writers as to what they meant?  Right.  Regardless, the writers have the authority as to what can and can't happen in their setting.  You're free to no like it, but that's the way it is.

I also marvel at your ability to headcanon into existence only the negative, without considering the very positive way the ending is portrayed in all three endings (refusal is a glorified game-over, as it should be).  Not perfect, but it's hardly the garbled mess that so many claim it is, especially now.


WHAT THEY MEANT? I don't care what they meant. All I care about is what they wrote. And what they wrote contradicted their own established lore and lacks narrative cohesion. The ending actually contradicts itself. To say it's better than the original is meaningless. Anything would be better than the original.

Given the ESTABLISHED LORE there is no room for anything other than a bleak ending. How does Grunt and Wrex make it back to Tuchanka with the relays fubar? More magic hand waving instead of coherent writting I presume.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 11 juillet 2012 - 01:38 .


#231
iggy4566

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wizardryforever wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
So you're saying that you know better than the writers as to what they meant?  Right.  Regardless, the writers have the authority as to what can and can't happen in their setting.  You're free to no like it, but that's the way it is.

I also marvel at your ability to headcanon into existence only the negative, without considering the very positive way the ending is portrayed in all three endings (refusal is a glorified game-over, as it should be).  Not perfect, but it's hardly the garbled mess that so many claim it is, especially now.

Oh no, writers are free to retconn and make all they wrote before make no sense.

Just as we are free to call it BS.

You can call it whatever you like.  You have that right.

But I'm going to trust the actual creators of the setting over some random shmuck on the internet.


The same guys who changed up a lot of **** for the EC like the Crew on the planet and the relays going boom and more.

#232
Shaleist

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Renmiri1 wrote...

We get chastised by Kaidan for "cheating" and there is no dialog wheel
to flip him the bird. Male Sheppard gets no such sermon from Ashley.


Ummm.. yeah she does.




not sure how it compares to Kaiden's 'sermon' guess I'll watch that and see.


Umm...



Kaidan seems totally chill about it in comparison

Modifié par Shaleist, 11 juillet 2012 - 02:33 .


#233
Strelsky

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MUST own the ENTIRE SERIES! I MUST. I wish I had the Collectors editions :(

#234
remed

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I agree that a cut and dry simple DLC would be a hard sell, especially for those fans who continue to wish for more closure, more resolution, more answers, or a happier, more complete ending to the Mass Effect series and find none in simple straightforward  DLCs that will only continue to drive home the point that no matter what happens in the DLCs, none of it will matter in the end or would make a difference to the endings you get. Telling "untold stories" to expand on the legend of Shepard, as the message at the game’s end suggests,  is all well and good, but in general, players won't care so much because a) they already know how it all ends, how Shepard finished the war against the Reapers and B) adding the accomplishments from the DLC to war assets is not enough motivation to have players play through, yet again, the Cerberus attack mission and the whole London mission when say, even without it, their EMS is already high enough and they already got the best possible ending scenario in their minds. DLCs are fine to insert at that point before the Cerberus attack if the player hasn't played the entire game or they wanted a higher EMS for a better ending. But if they have already achieved both, what motivation would they have to play the DLC? They don't need the war asset. Would we play it for simply finding out more info about the Reapers? More background into Shepard's life? Sure. But if it doesn't impact things beyond the DLC, if we still already know how it all ends, we might not be willing to pay for it much, unless we are completionist, die hard Mass Effect fans. But people who simply play Mass Effect for enjoyment won't necessarily buy the DLC unless it offers really exciting, new gameplay or a unique, tremendously riveting storyline. Changing the endings will only lead to more controversy, more people bickering and fighting, more cupcakes and what-not. So why not just leave the endings as they are but expand from them and explain them in more detail  through DLCs? One way to do this would be to add cutscenes or even gameplay that takes place after the end of Mass Effect 3. My suggestions (most of this is based on the assumption that Shepard survived and the destroy option with high > 5,000 EMS was chosen):

1) Cutscenes or even gameplay after the Mass Effect 3 ending wherein we find out how the DLC mission, the "untold chapter or story" of Shepard that took place before the Cerberus attack led to Shepard's survival and helped him in his journey back home. Perhaps this is my clinging to continued hope that my Shepard will physically rise out of the rubble and reunite with his LI, but it doesn't have to deal with this, though I am sort of maybe kind of pleading here that it would somehow. But below are a few more ideas about post-ending DLC plots.

2) There were a few comments about how players and critics would love to have DLC where you get to play a different Mass Effect 3 character. Maybe Miranda, Jack, Jacob, Garrus, etc.  Having the timeline of their missions take place after the ending would be a way to add a unique gameplay experience without abandoning the ending message promising to continue to "Build on the Legend of Shepard" with future content. My thought goes like this: you play an untold story mission about the legend Shepard before the Cerberus attack mission, and you play as Shepard. If you already completed the game, you then segue into some Dragon Age II type narration-shenanigans detailing the ending you got, then you skip to later missions that details a storyline after the Mass Effect 3 ending, and how the outcome of Shepard's earlier DLC missions affected the later missions of his allies. It could be a piece of intelligence or artifact of some kind that Shepard gave his allies that could help achieve the later missions. Some mission ideas for these characters:

a) It could be the player is controlling Garrus, or Miranda, and they have a mission to fix a mass relay and eliminate bad guys who are maybe opportunists and want to take advantage of the current chaos going on after the Reapers are defeated.

B) If you picked destroy as your choice, wouldn't it be cool if Tali, with the help of Shepard's intel or piece of
technology from an untold mission before the Cerberus attack, strove to rebuild or remake the Geth, or restore EDI? Maybe she can go back to that virtual world Shepard visited on that Legion mission. Except this time there are some "viruses" that they encounter which are virtual bad guys that Tali and her allies can fight.

c) If the indoctrination theory is still alive and kicking, Shepard's untold mission prior to the DLC could show him obtaining something that would help him become immune to indoctrination and surviving an indoctrination attempt. And then the later missions could be his other teammates trying to revive him from his indoctrinated trance, to recover his body, and various other missions to save him, ultimately culminating in a final battle with Harbinger as some has been clamoring for

d) If the indoctrination theory is not pursued, there are other ways to get a final showdown with Harbinger like so many fans have been requesting. Could be Harbinger can adopt other forms, not just a Reaper. Shepard knew this somehow from a pre-Cerberus DLC mission and did something to help his allies battle it out with Harbinger if he’s dead, and if he’s alive, he fights alongside his allies or something

3) Exploring plotpoints about how Shepard's untold missions somehow helping or affecting Jack's, Jacob's, or Miranda's fronts in the final battle. Their successes could then link to explain how Shepard survived or how the Normandy managed to not blow up when it got caught in the blast. There are plotholes everywhere that I’m sure many fans have discovered. Bioware can try to explain or rationalize those by using these DLCs and have characters recount events to explain the plotholes.  Cutscenes in the missions taking place after the Mass Effect 3 ending could simply explain these plotholes by characters recounting events.

4) A romance DLC as some has been suggesting. Could be a mission where Shepard and LI are trapped in a desert island--ok, just kidding--but maybe a mission where it’s just the two of them, and their strength of character and bond to each other are really tested, and Shepard either saves the LI’s life or vice versa or gives the LI something that then ties to a post-ending mission...and this could eventually lead to Shepard and LI reuniting or if Shepard chose Synthesis or Control, a way for the LI to communicate with Shepard and say one last good-bye a la Anakin Skywalker’s specter at the end of Return of the Jedi or something of a sort.

5) There are many potential storylines to explore. Because of these possibilities, one could make a series of DLCs with these story suggestions using the  supporting characters for the post-ending missions, and their success in the missions leads to how the galaxy rebuilt. Each DLC would be standalone, of course, but if you play all the DLCs, it could be almost like a "Love Actually" type thing, where each of Shepard's "untold story" mission and the supporting characters' missions taking place after the ME3 ending  are all linked somehow into one big story, one that, I'm crossing my fingers, could eventually lead to extra cutscenes at the end of the final DLC that detail the story of how Shepard made it back home to reunite with all his LI and his friends. Or it could be something different entirely that is just showing how each of his allies and friends got their goals met (Garrus reunites with family in Paladin, Ashley finds her sister and mom, Liara helps refugees in Thessia, Wrex rebuilds Tuchanka). Or something else that fans really want to see get a nice resolution. Maybe a hint to future Mass Effect games. Something.

This would be a unique take on DLCs, and it will get players invested and curious about how the rest of the stories unfold. I think if DLCs were taken seriously, if it is shown that there is still a big investment in making players happy, in telling good quality stories (Lair of the Shadow Broker had a great story), then there would be a great incentive to play the DLCs, and no one will be angry for paying to play the DLCs. No one would think it was a ploy to exploit the whole ending controversy. In my book, that has been resolved, and Bioware did the best they could and we should just accept the compromise and move on through well thought out, well-written DLCs that don’t attempt to change the endings but expand from them  while explaining them at the same time.  Any other attempt to "poke the skunk," as it were, by messing with the endings one way or another through paid DLCs might lead to some ire from some fans.

The only tricky thing is where to place the DLCs where half of the mission is pre-Cerberus attack and the other half post-ending. I think having the DLC start point be before the Cerberus mission makes sense, and the "untold story" of the legend of Shepard DLCs should give players a sizable war asset boost, just so people who are just not into multiplayer and won't play will have an easier time getting higher EMS so they can have better endings. From there, they would have to replay Cerberus and the London battle missions to be able to choose the better ending scenarios with the higher EMS ratings. Then the rest of the DLC content can take place in sequence after the ending. But for people who already got high EMS and played through the Cerberus and London missions and got the best ending, they should be able to play the Shepard mission DLCs pre-Cerberus attack, then just be able to skip into the missions/cutscenes after the Mass Effect 3 ending.  The best way to do that would be through a prompt: when you pick the Cerberus mission, it should just ask players whether they would like to play through the missions with the updated EMS ratings, or skip to the new content or the events after the ME3 ending using the legendsave that saved the game right after the chosen ME3 ending. Then Dragon Age 2 style narration and story/mission transition, and then  into new cutscene and mission post-ending. I think the missions taking place after the ME3 ending can still work no matter what choice one made. Maybe the scenarios will just play differently, maybe some of the ending choices will just lead to fewer cutscenes. Maybe if Shepard picked synthesis or control, there is no Shepard reuniting with allies and LI scene, but maybe the supporting character playing in the mission can give a toast to Shepard or thank him somehow, or refer to his choice over control or synthesis. Something. But to be honest, the destroy ending that requires the highest EMS to pull off the “best” scenario where Shepard lives is the ending  that everyone should hope or aim to achieve. The DLCs with war asset boosts should help players get that high 5000+ EMS without the multiplayer (this, after all, as I'm sure you're aware, is the other chafing point for many fans) so they can get this "best" ending and get the extra cutscenes of Shepard reuniting with his friends in the end. And those that don’t care for a happy ending already got the best ending they want in their minds and won’t care one way or another about the additional cutscenes anyway.

Modifié par remed, 11 juillet 2012 - 03:23 .


#235
ld1449

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wizardryforever wrote...


You can call it whatever you like.  You have that right.

But I'm going to trust the actual creators of the setting over some random shmuck on the internet.


Why trust either? Look up the lore yourself. Or can't you form an opinion on your own?

Modifié par ld1449, 11 juillet 2012 - 03:31 .


#236
wizardryforever

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ld1449 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...


You can call it whatever you like.  You have that right.

But I'm going to trust the actual creators of the setting over some random shmuck on the internet.


Why trust either? Look up the lore yourself. Or can't you form an opinion on your own?

Really?  Was that called for in the slightest?

The lore is subject to change.  Quite simply, Bioware has the final say as to what is or is not part of the lore at any given point.  Like pretty much any series in existence, Mass Effect is going to have retcons.  Don't like it, fine.  But the lore is not sacred.  People act like Bioware is taking some free-standing lore and altering it to fit their desires.  Bioware created it!  They can do whatever the hell they want with it.  You don't have to like it.  Hell, there's things that I don't like, but it is still their story. 

Essentially, what they say now supercedes what they said before.

#237
iggy4566

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wizardryforever wrote...

ld1449 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...


You can call it whatever you like.  You have that right.

But I'm going to trust the actual creators of the setting over some random shmuck on the internet.


Why trust either? Look up the lore yourself. Or can't you form an opinion on your own?

Really?  Was that called for in the slightest?

The lore is subject to change.  Quite simply, Bioware has the final say as to what is or is not part of the lore at any given point.  Like pretty much any series in existence, Mass Effect is going to have retcons.  Don't like it, fine.  But the lore is not sacred.  People act like Bioware is taking some free-standing lore and altering it to fit their desires.  Bioware created it!  They can do whatever the hell they want with it.  You don't have to like it.  Hell, there's things that I don't like, but it is still their story. 

Essentially, what they say now supercedes what they said before.


Thats the issue they changed lore that has been in the game since day one.

#238
SlyTF1

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Because MOAR Mass Effect is always good.

#239
Krunjar

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You know this is kinda like saying. I know I am gonna die one day so I might as well jump out of a window.

#240
ld1449

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wizardryforever wrote...


Really?  Was that called for in the slightest?

The lore is subject to change.  Quite simply, Bioware has the final say as to what is or is not part of the lore at any given point.  Like pretty much any series in existence, Mass Effect is going to have retcons.  Don't like it, fine.  But the lore is not sacred.  People act like Bioware is taking some free-standing lore and altering it to fit their desires.  Bioware created it!  They can do whatever the hell they want with it.  You don't have to like it.  Hell, there's things that I don't like, but it is still their story. 

Essentially, what they say now supercedes what they said before.


Ask ANY literary teacher in ANY university, hell in any HIGH SCHOOL and they will say flat out, that saying that if in chapter one you say that this car can't run on gas and then in the epilogue you have that exact same car with no changes made/explained why its NOW run on gas almost out of the blue. Its not just "ahh well he wants to change it so who am I to argue" Its "The damn thing sucks" (wether to apply that to the whole story or just that part of the story is subject to how big the change is. And considering the fact that they changed nearly half their lore in the matter of ten minutes with little to no foreshadowing I'd say it classifies on the "change" department from big to monumental

#241
Texhnolyze101

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SlyTF1 wrote...

Because MOAR Mass Effect is always good.


Its better if they just let it die and move on to a new IP.

#242
iggy4566

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101ezylonhxeT wrote...

SlyTF1 wrote...

Because MOAR Mass Effect is always good.


Its better if they just let it die and move on to a new IP.


A reboot may save Mass effect if done right.

#243
SlyTF1

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Krunjar wrote...

You know this is kinda like saying. I know I am gonna die one day so I might as well jump out of a window.


That thought has crossed my mind...

#244
liggy002

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I don't have an incentive to buy any additional DLC. It's just stupid at this point.

#245
Krunjar

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SlyTF1 wrote...

Krunjar wrote...

You know this is kinda like saying. I know I am gonna die one day so I might as well jump out of a window.


That thought has crossed my mind...


Most everyone's at some time or another. Your still here tho aintcha ;)

#246
Iakus

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iggy4566 wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

SlyTF1 wrote...

Because MOAR Mass Effect is always good.


Its better if they just let it die and move on to a new IP.


A reboot may save Mass effect if done right.


Hasn't worked so far :lol:

#247
ld1449

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iakus wrote...



Hasn't worked so far :lol:


Witcher 2. Though in truth it didn't need much saving in the first place. More like they gave it a fountain of youth revival.

#248
Iakus

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ld1449 wrote...

iakus wrote...



Hasn't worked so far :lol:


Witcher 2. Though in truth it didn't need much saving in the first place. More like they gave it a fountain of youth revival.


I mean, rebooting Mass Effect hasn't worked so far ;)

#249
Kel Riever

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Free DLC, particularly to fix the ending which still isn't fixed at ALL, no problem.

Pay DLC, or next release from BioWare of any kind...no incentive, whatsoever.

#250
iggy4566

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iakus wrote...

iggy4566 wrote...

101ezylonhxeT wrote...

SlyTF1 wrote...

Because MOAR Mass Effect is always good.


Its better if they just let it die and move on to a new IP.


A reboot may save Mass effect if done right.


Hasn't worked so far :lol:


 I mean a full on reamake.