311 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@Mr Powers94 ...

Allowing themselves to be tools is still letting the reapers dominate them. They are forgoing their free will.

but because their are geth that are not used as the reapers tools the geth have total free will as well the geth are not truly dominated until ME 3 where all geth are being directly contolled by the reapers. remember that whole plot line wher you hade to take out the reaper on rannoch. the heretics where not controlled in such a way or their would have been no heretics.

If you allow someone to use you as a tool...Your still a tool. You've given up your free will as long as you allow some one to use you as a tool.

BUt you state that you are allowing or making a choice to be a tool their fore indicating freewill in the subject. a gun  does not kill because it cannot think, it is a tool. The geth can think and make choices wether or not to kill therfore they are not tools. Their ability to think and chose is shown by the divide between the geth and the heretics.

Once you are the tool, even if you freely choose to be one, you are still a tool and forgo your free will till yo stop being a tool.

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...
But is that our fault? It just the way the catalyst is programed. He is not even the one that decided on the choices any way, it was the races that die before our cycle. 

We don't have a clear idea how the choices are produced. Although the Catalyst says the Crucible changed him, it also says the Crucible is merely an energy source. Most likely, once the choices became possible through the Crucible/Citadel/Relays being joined, the Catalyst could not choose to NOT present them. For some reason.

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

So if I create organic life, it's synthetic too.

[Mr Powers94]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@Mr Powers94 ...

Allowing themselves to be tools is still letting the reapers dominate them. They are forgoing their free will.

but because their are geth that are not used as the reapers tools the geth have total free will as well the geth are not truly dominated until ME 3 where all geth are being directly contolled by the reapers. remember that whole plot line wher you hade to take out the reaper on rannoch. the heretics where not controlled in such a way or their would have been no heretics.

If you allow someone to use you as a tool...Your still a tool. You've given up your free will as long as you allow some one to use you as a tool.

BUt you state that you are allowing or making a choice to be a tool their fore indicating freewill in the subject. a gun  does not kill because it cannot think, it is a tool. The geth can think and make choices wether or not to kill therfore they are not tools. Their ability to think and chose is shown by the divide between the geth and the heretics.

Once you are the tool, even if you freely choose to be one, you are still a tool and forgo your free will till yo stop being a tool.

you cant choose to be a tool, you can choose to be ingnorant and fight blindly for a cause but you cant choose to be a tool because tool's do not think, and the geth clearly think.

[dreman9999]

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But is that our fault? It just the way the catalyst is programed. He is not even the one that decided on the choices any way, it was the races that die before our cycle. 

We don't have a clear idea how the choices are produced. Although the Catalyst says the Crucible changed him, it also says the Crucible is merely an energy source. Most likely, once the choices became possible through the Crucible/Citadel/Relays being joined, the Catalyst could not choose to NOT present them. For some reason.

The catalyst presented how to use the crucible because it's programing force it's to. How well the crucible is built is what decides what it does.

[CronoDragoon]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

you cant choose to be a tool, you can choose to be ingnorant and fight blindly for a cause but you cant choose to be a tool because tool's do not think, and the geth clearly think.

TIM was a tool for the Reapers, and he clearly thought.

[Mr Powers94]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

what if a synthitic AI is created from the joining and growth of nano technology.

[Vigilant111]

maaaze wrote...

KBronx17 wrote...

maaaze wrote...

EDI / Quarians / Geth big part of the Narrative

furthermore

The reasoning of the Antagonist != focus of the narrative
The reasoning of the Protagonist = focus of the narrative

Yeah but EDI is your friend! There's no conflict between you (Organics) and her (Synthetic) after initial suspicions.

And okay, so the Quarians/Geth conflict was a major part of the narrative. But there were so many other, more important things as well.

And I don't understand your reasoning of the Antagonist/Protagonist point. Are you insinuating that the Catalyst is the Antagonist? Because the Catalyst doesn't use reason.

EDI rebelled against Cerberus...and against the Alliance (luna mission)

The Catalyst is the Antagonist as he represents the reapers

The Catalyst has it´s reasons why he is doing what he is doing...he was programmed to find a solution to a given problem and viaribles.

Why he is doing what he is doing isn´t the focus.
Why Shaperd is reacting the way he does to whats happening ...is the focus of the narrative.

I thought the narrative of ME is accepting synthetics as alive, and not the conflicts that ensued, showing EDI and the Geth rebelled is to highlight the fact that synthetics are capable of doing things that organics do, that synthetics have needs and wants and ideals that they uphold, just like the organics

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

So if I create organic life, it's synthetic too.

Don't build each part of an oragnic. You put dna in an egg cell and it self replicates. Make a living being out a spare parts and we can then discuse it.

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But is that our fault? It just the way the catalyst is programed. He is not even the one that decided on the choices any way, it was the races that die before our cycle. 

We don't have a clear idea how the choices are produced. Although the Catalyst says the Crucible changed him, it also says the Crucible is merely an energy source. Most likely, once the choices became possible through the Crucible/Citadel/Relays being joined, the Catalyst could not choose to NOT present them. For some reason.

The catalyst presented how to use the crucible because it's programing force it's to. How well the crucible is built is what decides what it does.

Yes, it depends how well the Crucible is built. It does not follow that the Crucible's programming contained the choices or that the Crucible had any programming at all. When did they ever mention the Crucible being anything other than an energy source?

[dreman9999]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

what if a synthitic AI is created from the joining and growth of nano technology.

They still have to build the nano machines.

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...
But is that our fault? It just the way the catalyst is programed. He is
not even the one that decided on the choices any way, it was the races
that die before our cycle.

The Catalyst has exceeded his original programing to some degree I would say, he was originally designed to help achieve peace, he solved his creator problem by forcible turning them into Cthulhu. He's capable of percieving other options clearly. The crucible is mainly a power source according to him, so I'd assume he is responsible for the choices presented.

[Mr Powers94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

you cant choose to be a tool, you can choose to be ingnorant and fight blindly for a cause but you cant choose to be a tool because tool's do not think, and the geth clearly think.

TIM was a tool for the Reapers, and he clearly thought.

this depends in some play throughs he will kill himself and choose to not serve the reapers but because in the game thiss may or may not happen the illusivbe mans relationship to the reapers can not be considered a valid argument for eitherside because when he kills himself it shows that like saren he is not a tool but rather an ignorant being who chose to fight for the reapers.

[dreman9999]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@Mr Powers94 ...

Allowing themselves to be tools is still letting the reapers dominate them. They are forgoing their free will.

but because their are geth that are not used as the reapers tools the geth have total free will as well the geth are not truly dominated until ME 3 where all geth are being directly contolled by the reapers. remember that whole plot line wher you hade to take out the reaper on rannoch. the heretics where not controlled in such a way or their would have been no heretics.

If you allow someone to use you as a tool...Your still a tool. You've given up your free will as long as you allow some one to use you as a tool.

BUt you state that you are allowing or making a choice to be a tool their fore indicating freewill in the subject. a gun  does not kill because it cannot think, it is a tool. The geth can think and make choices wether or not to kill therfore they are not tools. Their ability to think and chose is shown by the divide between the geth and the heretics.

Once you are the tool, even if you freely choose to be one, you are still a tool and forgo your free will till yo stop being a tool.

you cant choose to be a tool, you can choose to be ingnorant and fight blindly for a cause but you cant choose to be a tool because tool's do not think, and the geth clearly think.

Yes, you can. Look at Thane. He is an example of this very concept.

[dreman9999]

Greylycantrope wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
But is that our fault? It just the way the catalyst is programed. He is
not even the one that decided on the choices any way, it was the races
that die before our cycle.

The Catalyst has exceeded his original programing to some degree I would say, he was originally designed to help achieve peace, he solved his creator problem by forcible turning them into Cthulhu. He's capable of percieving other options clearly. The crucible is mainly a power source according to him, so I'd assume he is responsible for the choices presented.

No , he has not. He still well with in his programing. His programing is not to do what is creators say...It's to find peace with synthetics and organics.

[Mr Powers94]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

what if a synthitic AI is created from the joining and growth of nano technology.

They still have to build the nano machines.

our bodies build sperm and eggs a self replicating machine could create nanites. 

[CronoDragoon]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

you cant choose to be a tool, you can choose to be ingnorant and fight blindly for a cause but you cant choose to be a tool because tool's do not think, and the geth clearly think.

TIM was a tool for the Reapers, and he clearly thought.

this depends in some play throughs he will kill himself and choose to not serve the reapers but because in the game thiss may or may not happen the illusivbe mans relationship to the reapers can not be considered a valid argument for eitherside because when he kills himself it shows that like saren he is not a tool but rather an ignorant being who chose to fight for the reapers.

He was indoctrinated. He shot himself in order to preserve free will which he had previously lost. The Reapers were controlling him and would not let him join Shepard to destroy them. He wasn't making free will decisions; that's not how indoctrination works. They explain it more clearly in the books, but the Reapers alter the chemicals in your brain in order to make you think you came up with decisions yourself, but they are really just rigging the game so that you "choose" exactly what they want.

[dreman9999]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

what if a synthitic AI is created from the joining and growth of nano technology.

They still have to build the nano machines.

our bodies build sperm and eggs a self replicating machine could create nanites. 

Our bodies grow eggs ans spern. Not build them. 

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

So if I create organic life, it's synthetic too.

Don't build each part of an oragnic. You put dna in an egg cell and it self replicates. Make a living being out a spare parts and we can then discuse it.

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

[Mr Powers94]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

@Mr Powers94 ...

Allowing themselves to be tools is still letting the reapers dominate them. They are forgoing their free will.

but because their are geth that are not used as the reapers tools the geth have total free will as well the geth are not truly dominated until ME 3 where all geth are being directly contolled by the reapers. remember that whole plot line wher you hade to take out the reaper on rannoch. the heretics where not controlled in such a way or their would have been no heretics.

If you allow someone to use you as a tool...Your still a tool. You've given up your free will as long as you allow some one to use you as a tool.

BUt you state that you are allowing or making a choice to be a tool their fore indicating freewill in the subject. a gun  does not kill because it cannot think, it is a tool. The geth can think and make choices wether or not to kill therfore they are not tools. Their ability to think and chose is shown by the divide between the geth and the heretics.

Once you are the tool, even if you freely choose to be one, you are still a tool and forgo your free will till yo stop being a tool.

you cant choose to be a tool, you can choose to be ingnorant and fight blindly for a cause but you cant choose to be a tool because tool's do not think, and the geth clearly think.

Yes, you can. Look at Thane. He is an example of this very concept.

thane can however choose who weilds him. if he was sent a contract to kill shepard from the illusive man and was paid upfront would he do it no because he is not a tool and he can choose what he fights for 

Modifié par Mr Powers94, 11 juillet 2012 - 05:51 .

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

what if a synthitic AI is created from the joining and growth of nano technology.

They still have to build the nano machines.

our bodies build sperm and eggs a self replicating machine could create nanites. 

Our bodies grow eggs ans spern. Not build them. 

Oh yeah, because they appear from nowhere...

[CronoDragoon]

mauro2222 wrote...

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

That is sort of shorthand for "they deserve to be treated as autonomous beings the same way organics are." But they aren't alive the same way organics "live."

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

So if I create organic life, it's synthetic too.

Don't build each part of an oragnic. You put dna in an egg cell and it self replicates. Make a living being out a spare parts and we can then discuse it.

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

Spare parts of organic matter that no longer workas organic parts. So no. 

Modifié par dreman9999, 11 juillet 2012 - 05:53 .

[dreman9999]

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

what if a synthitic AI is created from the joining and growth of nano technology.

They still have to build the nano machines.

our bodies build sperm and eggs a self replicating machine could create nanites. 

Our bodies grow eggs ans spern. Not build them. 

Oh yeah, because they appear from nowhere...

They are replicated not built. Look up miotosis.