311 réponses à ce sujet

[mauro2222]

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

That is sort of shorthand for "they deserve to be treated as autonomous beings the same way organics are." But they aren't alive the same way organics "live."

You can easily do it. The only thing that makes them different it's the lack of metabolism.

[mauro2222]

dreman9999 wrote...

They are replicated not built. Look up miotosis.

No ****! You still need a cell in order to replicate more... you need materials for it.

[Mr Powers94]

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

And what it makes a synthetic? Humans are also machines, we are also made of organic and inorganic components, more inorganic than organic since our body is 70/75% water.

Synthetics are build, organics are born via self  repulation.

what if a synthitic AI is created from the joining and growth of nano technology.

They still have to build the nano machines.

our bodies build sperm and eggs a self replicating machine could create nanites. 

Our bodies grow eggs ans spern. Not build them. 

Oh yeah, because they appear from nowhere...

They are replicated not built. Look up miotosis.

have you heard of the grey goo theory

[CronoDragoon]

mauro2222 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

That is sort of shorthand for "they deserve to be treated as autonomous beings the same way organics are." But they aren't alive the same way organics "live."

You can easily do it. The only thing that makes them different it's the lack of metabolism.

And the fact that their physical platforms are irrelevant, or that synthetic materials such as their bodies do not age the same way organic bodies do. They have their own way of living, but it's not really the same thing as organics "living." Synthetics can't get cancer, for example.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:00 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

dreman9999 wrote...
No , he has not. He still well with in his programing. His programing is
not to do what is creators say...It's to find peace with synthetics and
organics.

Yet when someone else achieves this peace he ignores it. This goal gives him a sense of purpose I'll grant you, but this bring me back to my orginial point, the solutions have a very skewed and incorrect view of the established reality.

[Bill Casey]

dreman9999 wrote...

Spare parts of organic matter that no longer workas organic parts. So no. 

...Reapers?

[Mr Powers94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

That is sort of shorthand for "they deserve to be treated as autonomous beings the same way organics are." But they aren't alive the same way organics "live."

You can easily do it. The only thing that makes them different it's the lack of metabolism.

And the fact that their physical platforms are irrelevant, or that synthetic materials such as their bodies do not age the same way organic bodies do. They have their own way of living, but it's not really the same thing as organics "living."

with the advancments in medicine it may eventuallly become possible to stop cellular decay, or the aging process. aswell how do we know that we ourselves have a physical platform how do we know that our minds are not creating the reality we are observing how do we know anything but or own thoughts exist. 

Modifié par Mr Powers94, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:04 .

[mauro2222]

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

That is sort of shorthand for "they deserve to be treated as autonomous beings the same way organics are." But they aren't alive the same way organics "live."

You can easily do it. The only thing that makes them different it's the lack of metabolism.

And the fact that their physical platforms are irrelevant, or that synthetic materials such as their bodies do not age the same way organic bodies do. They have their own way of living, but it's not really the same thing as organics "living."

And if you change their bodies for a human one... what makes them synthetic then.

Modifié par mauro2222, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:07 .

[CronoDragoon]

mauro2222 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

That is sort of shorthand for "they deserve to be treated as autonomous beings the same way organics are." But they aren't alive the same way organics "live."

You can easily do it. The only thing that makes them different it's the lack of metabolism.

And the fact that their physical platforms are irrelevant, or that synthetic materials such as their bodies do not age the same way organic bodies do. They have their own way of living, but it's not really the same thing as organics "living."

And if you change their bodies for a human one... what makes them synthetic then.

You mean, assuming you could transfer their thoughts/memories/etc into a "blank" human brain with a functioning human body? Nothing. They'd be organic, then.

[Darsoul]

well somewhere between ME2 and ME3 the the true threat of Dark Energy consuming everything was cut and deleted and we were all force fed this Organics vs. Synthetics.

[mauro2222]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

with the advancments in medicine it may eventuallly become possible to stop cellular decay, or the aging process.

Cells die because they are programmed to do so, the aging process is part of the lack of reproduction. If you alter such gene you have immortality. Some animals don't have such gene, that's why they're immortal.

[Mr Powers94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

The geth are made of "spare parts" and are alive

That is sort of shorthand for "they deserve to be treated as autonomous beings the same way organics are." But they aren't alive the same way organics "live."

You can easily do it. The only thing that makes them different it's the lack of metabolism.

And the fact that their physical platforms are irrelevant, or that synthetic materials such as their bodies do not age the same way organic bodies do. They have their own way of living, but it's not really the same thing as organics "living."

And if you change their bodies for a human one... what makes them synthetic then.

You mean, assuming you could transfer their thoughts/memories/etc into a "blank" human brain with a functioning human body? Nothing. They'd be organic, then.

then what if you slowly took apart a human and replaced their limbs/organs with tech, if they still have memories and have the same thought patterns would they still be considered the person they were? or are they an entirely new entity? if so would they be allowed to have the same rights as an organic?

Modifié par Mr Powers94, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:12 .

[Bill Casey]

CronoDragoon wrote...

You mean, assuming you could
transfer their thoughts/memories/etc into a "blank" human brain with a
functioning human body? Nothing. They'd be organic, then.

Modifié par Bill Casey, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:12 .

[CronoDragoon]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

with the advancments in medicine it may eventuallly become possible to stop cellular decay, or the aging process. aswell how do we know that we ourselves have a physical platform how do we know that our minds are not creating the reality we are observing how do we know anything but or own thoughts exist. 

The day we can fundamentally change the way our cells work is the day we may no longer be organic in the way we undestand it for humans, or at least much less so.

Your second sentence doesn't really help us, since similarly we can assert that our thoughts do not exist, either. Remember, Descartes had to use circular logic to prove, "I think, therefore I am." So if we're going to go down that road I don't think we'll be any closer to saying something meaningful.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:14 .

[HocoG]

well, because it' all in quotes i will mark i answering original post - It's because BW had no plan how to end ME3. As i see - in every story, which contains more than 1 part can be 2 variants of problem - which doesn't need explanation ( LotR ), or one which need explanation - ME.

Because player need to know why Reapers killing everyone? In that case - second problem(which will explain) can be started in second part (in the end of*) - i believe Hestorm is this problem (DM ending) - and slowly evolve in 3rd part, by report of strange stars behavior in some systems. They suppose to be that small, so player doesn't react on them and in the ending here is explanation.

I believe it suppose to be like that, i can't imagine Normal explanation with new character(like Catalyst), which telling about new problem, which never was in the game.

[Mr Powers94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

with the advancments in medicine it may eventuallly become possible to stop cellular decay, or the aging process. aswell how do we know that we ourselves have a physical platform how do we know that our minds are not creating the reality we are observing how do we know anything but or own thoughts exist. 

The day we can fundamentally change the way our cells work is the day we may no longer be organic, or at least much less so.

Your second sentence doesn't really help us, since similarly we can assert that our thoughts do not exist, either. Remember, Descartes had to use circular logic to prove, "I think, therefore I am." So if we're going to go down that road I don't think we'll be any closer to saying something meaningful.

what i am trying to prove is this is an extremely philosophical argument and you wont reach a concrete conclusion because we all have different beleifs and we should just accept that and end this as an agree to disagree,

[CronoDragoon]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

then what if you slowly took apart a human and replaced their limbs/organs with tech, if they still have memories and have the same thought patterns would they still be considered the person they were? or are they an entirely new entity? if so would they be allowed to have the same rights as an organic?

To quote Sealab, "If I were to put my brain in a robot body..." then no, I'd no longer be organic. 

As for rights, why are you asking me? I don't make the rules. I'm also by no means suggesting synthetics should have less rights because I say they aren't alive like organics are.

[Mr Powers94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

then what if you slowly took apart a human and replaced their limbs/organs with tech, if they still have memories and have the same thought patterns would they still be considered the person they were? or are they an entirely new entity? if so would they be allowed to have the same rights as an organic?

To quote Sealab, "If I were to put my brain in a robot body..." then no, I'd no longer be organic. 

As for rights, why are you asking me? I don't make the rules. I'm also by no means suggesting synthetics should have less rights because I say they aren't alive like organics are.

but if they arne't alive then why would we treat them any differently from rocks? we would treat them differently because they are alive.

Modifié par Mr Powers94, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:25 .

[mauro2222]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

with the advancments in medicine it may eventuallly become possible to stop cellular decay, or the aging process. aswell how do we know that we ourselves have a physical platform how do we know that our minds are not creating the reality we are observing how do we know anything but or own thoughts exist. 

The day we can fundamentally change the way our cells work is the day we may no longer be organic in the way we undestand it for humans, or at least much less so.

You're still made of carbon... why is it going to change?

[CronoDragoon]

Rocks aren't sentient, that's why. This is getting sort of semantic, since I was just using dreman's posts about cellular reproduction to state the ways in which organic "life" and synthetic "life" are dissimilar.

[Mr Powers94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Rocks aren't sentient, that's why. This is getting sort of semantic, since I was just using dreman's posts about cellular reproduction to state the ways in which organic "life" and synthetic "life" are dissimilar.

but aren't all sentient beings alive, because they can recongize their own exsitance, their influence over  others, and they can recognize themselves as being alive? 

Modifié par Mr Powers94, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:29 .

[Mr Powers94]

signing off

[EmEr77]

The Starchild's logic is faulty. If an individual studying either public speaking, English, or even the philosophy of logic were to break down the Starchild's argument for its very existence they would come to a consensus that it's grasping at straws, and illogical. You have a deus ex machina (the crucible) and a diabolus ex machina (the catalyst) that the entire ending is revolving around, which is a huge no-no. Another big issue with the ending was that it pulled WAY too far back in way too little time. The entire scope very suddenly and sharply broadened with no gradual in-between to guide us into the fact that: omg, god-child, what? There is this root conflict that's suggested between organics and synthetics since Mass Effect 1. Saren talks A LOT about that; he also hints at the fact the Reapers are the solution. The Starchild talks about what they do as the "solution." So there's some sort of a connection, but it is so... so stretched. The solution is to the problem of synthetic creations always rebelling against their organic creators.

With "synthesis" essentially with everyone the same, with organics being partly synthetic, and synthetics being partly organics, the Reapers are no longer needed--but they still exist. Gigantic hole. What's to stop the Starchild from suddenly thinking that maybe this new hybrid race is going to create something dangerous?

Here's where the logic breaks down: While the Starchild seems convinced that it's doing organics a favor, preserving them in horrendous fashion... actually... I have something to say about that. From Mass Effect 2, we've come to understand that the way the Reapers harvest beings is by... turning them into some sort of... slurry. Yum. If that's how they preserve the minds/essences of each being into a new cuttlefish, then how could the Reapers still function in a machine-like fashion, if they're filled with nothing but minds whose last thoughts were utter fear, pain, despair, and overwhelming hopelessness? That's just... my thing. So good job Starchild, you're really operating on the three laws of robotics aren't ya?

Anyway, so the logic of the Starchild breaks down like this: Its objective is to rescue organics from themselves, before they create synthetics who will, as the Starchild so firmly believes, always rise up in dissent. The issue, is that the Reapers themselves, as synthetics, are the ones perpetuating the cycle. They are the ones carrying out what the Starchild believes they are protecting the organics from. The Reapers, in reality, are not actually taking preemptive measures, but rather are the perpetrators of that which their very existence was supposed to protect the galaxy from.

Did your head hurt? Mine did. That's the reality of what we have as the foundation for THE ENTIRE ending, which then is supposed to make us believe is the foundation for the story throughout the ENTIRE SERIES.

[CronoDragoon]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

Rocks aren't sentient, that's why. This is getting sort of semantic, since I was just using dreman's posts about cellular reproduction to state the ways in which organic "life" and synthetic "life" are dissimilar.

but aren't all sentient beings alive, because they can recongize their own exsitance, their influence over  others, and they can recognize themselves as being alive? 

Is that your definition of "alive'? If so, it isn't the one I was working with, but if we go by yours then ghosts are alive, too. 

[KBronx17]

Something I believe that dreman9999 is arguing is that the geth fighting organics proves that synthetics vs. organics was a major theme of the series, at least in ME1. He says that even though the Geth are "tools" (used by the Reapers), they still sacrificed their free will to the Reapers (correct me if I am wrong in my assumptions about your argument).
s
I would have to disagree with this. I always saw the Geth as a proxy that the Reapers were using to fight you. Its not that the Geth want to necessarily fight organics (you), its that they want to do the bidding of the Reapers. They do not want to do the bidding of the Reapers because the Reapers want to fight Organics. The Reapers, then realizing that they have an illogical worshiping fighting force, decide to indoctrinate that fighting force to combat organics.