311 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

KBronx17 wrote...

Something I believe that dreman9999 is arguing is that the geth fighting organics proves that synthetics vs. organics was a major theme of the series, at least in ME1. He says that even though the Geth are "tools" (used by the Reapers), they still sacrificed their free will to the Reapers (correct me if I am wrong in my assumptions about your argument).
s
I would have to disagree with this. I always saw the Geth as a proxy that the Reapers were using to fight you. Its not that the Geth want to necessarily fight organics (you), its that they want to do the bidding of the Reapers. They do not want to do the bidding of the Reapers because the Reapers want to fight Organics. The Reapers, then realizing that they have an illogical worshiping fighting force, decide to indoctrinate that fighting force to combat organics.

@bold- I agree.

[CronoDragoon]

The geth call the Reapers "the old machines" and the heretics side with them because they want "the gifts of the old machines." Their relationship is still based in their identities as synthetics.

[KBronx17]

CronoDragoon wrote...

The geth call the Reapers "the old machines" and the heretics side with them because they want "the gifts of the old machines." Their relationship is still based in their identities as synthetics.

What does the geth calling the Reapers the "old machines" have anything to do with identifying with the Reapers as fellow synthetics? Just because they call them "machines" doesn't mean that the heretics are attracted to the Reapers simply because they're synthetic. The heretics are just crazy geth that worship the Reapers for no real reason. Perhaps they have been tricked by the Reapers, considering the Reapers are good at indoctrinating and manipulating. And, if the geth felt such compulsion to ally themselves with synthetics to combat organics, then why isn't every geth a heretic? 

[Mazebook]

KBronx17 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The geth call the Reapers "the old machines" and the heretics side with them because they want "the gifts of the old machines." Their relationship is still based in their identities as synthetics.

What does the geth calling the Reapers the "old machines" have anything to do with identifying with the Reapers as fellow synthetics? Just because they call them "machines" doesn't mean that the heretics are attracted to the Reapers simply because they're synthetic. The heretics are just crazy geth that worship the Reapers for no real reason. Perhaps they have been tricked by the Reapers, considering the Reapers are good at indoctrinating and manipulating. And, if the geth felt such compulsion to ally themselves with synthetics to combat organics, then why isn't every geth a heretic? 

my old man would like to have a word with you...

[RyuGuitarFreak]

In a way since the beginning.

ME1: Geth, RogueVI, Sovereign. All synthetic life, all enemies. The creation of AI was forbidden because of conflict. The reapers were machines (spaceships lol) supposed to kill us all. Why? We don't know, they say it's beyond us.

You could say it was one of the major themes at least ever since.

ME2 changed it a little.

Geth weren't really enemies. Reapers are made of organics and they were supposed to be our salvation through destruction.

ME3 continued that but the twist is that the reapers save us from other synthetic life or the conflict it generates, or the possible outcome that all organic life would be obliterated. The theme is everywhere on the game, mainly in EDI and Javik also adds to it.

I was seriously expecting something else. Something new that would tie in to the lore exposed previously. In my opinion the conflict between organics (batarians, krogan, Cerberus, turians, salarians) was just as interesting and weighty to the lore as synthetics vs organics.

[KBronx17]

maaaze wrote...

KBronx17 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The geth call the Reapers "the old machines" and the heretics side with them because they want "the gifts of the old machines." Their relationship is still based in their identities as synthetics.

What does the geth calling the Reapers the "old machines" have anything to do with identifying with the Reapers as fellow synthetics? Just because they call them "machines" doesn't mean that the heretics are attracted to the Reapers simply because they're synthetic. The heretics are just crazy geth that worship the Reapers for no real reason. Perhaps they have been tricked by the Reapers, considering the Reapers are good at indoctrinating and manipulating. And, if the geth felt such compulsion to ally themselves with synthetics to combat organics, then why isn't every geth a heretic? 

my old man would like to have a word with you...

If I call you "human", "soul-encompasser", or "sentient being", I am acknowleding that you are organic. That does not, however, mean that I sympathize with you because we are organic. Heck, I'm not even acknowleding that I sympathize or identify with you, merely that I am identifying you.

I think that the old machines were simply a term that the Geth used to identify the Reapers. It was not "I'm identifying you as a synthetic because we are synthetics and I sympathize with synthetics, therefore I must fight organics".

[macrocarl]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Will someone please explain to me how organics vs. synthetics was not a focus in a game (ME1) where you are organics fighting a synthetic army led by someone who wants to combine synthetics and organics who is being controlled by a synthetic that wants to destroy organics?

Will someone please explain to me how organics vs. synthetics was not a
focus in a game (ME1) where you are organics fighting a synthetic army
led by someone who wants to combine synthetics and organics who is being
controlled by a synthetic-organic that wants to destroy organics who have technology to create synthetics?

:wizard:Fixed this a bit to make it a lil' more accurate and longer and sillier:P

[Uncle Jo]

The main theme of the game was Reapers against Everyone.

Every time we saw hostile synthetics, aside from the Luna VI, known later as EDI and the rogue VI in ME2 (the cause was a defect component), they were manipulated by the Reapers.

They also appeared conveniently in the previous cycle, as the Protheans were about to win the war against the machines but were also weakened by it, as well as the synthetics. It's relatively safe to assume that the Reapers applied the traditional "divide and conquer" in this case to make the Harvest easier. As well as they manipulated the Rachni and the Geth in our cycle.

All what we saw in the three games is that the Reapers didn't care neither about organics nor synthetics. Just about themselves. Furthermore they were hybrids, synthetic body and billions of minds (well, until the brat said it isn't the case). The cycle is their way to reproduce, as Casey Hudson himself stated it in an interview.

Remembering Sovereign's quotes about the Geth and the organics or Harbinger's hate speeches, makes me laugh hard every time I hear the Brat saying that he only wanted to preserve us and synthetics. Or that the Reapers are just "fire". Sure, whatever, they were just misunderstood.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 13 juillet 2012 - 10:33 .

[What a Succulent Ass]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Humans =organics.....
Reapers = synthetic...
me1 = organic vs sovereign(he is a reaper btw)
me2 =organic vs harbinger(he is also a reaper)
me3 = organic vs reapers....yep....

The reapers are technorganic.

And that there was conflict with them is immaterial. It isn't until the last few minutes that the metaphysical, pseudo-philosophical quandary of organics being innately and fundamentally different from synthetics (and thus are doomed to be eradicated by such) is shoehorned into the game and masqueraded as narratively legitimate.

At no other point is this idea even hinted at. In fact, it's the opposite.

[CronoDragoon]

KBronx17 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The geth call the Reapers "the old machines" and the heretics side with them because they want "the gifts of the old machines." Their relationship is still based in their identities as synthetics.

What does the geth calling the Reapers the "old machines" have anything to do with identifying with the Reapers as fellow synthetics? Just because they call them "machines" doesn't mean that the heretics are attracted to the Reapers simply because they're synthetic. The heretics are just crazy geth that worship the Reapers for no real reason. Perhaps they have been tricked by the Reapers, considering the Reapers are good at indoctrinating and manipulating. And, if the geth felt such compulsion to ally themselves with synthetics to combat organics, then why isn't every geth a heretic? 

We actually do know why the heretic allied themselves with the Reapers, and why not all geth joined them.

The geth seek perfect understanding. That is the collective goal of their consensus. The heretics concluded that the Reapers, as synthetics incredibly more powerful and terrible than the geth, could provide them with this gift, whereas the main consensus believed that the geth should achieve it on their own. Therefore, the geth allied with the Reapers because the Reapers were fellow synthetics who they believed could upgrade them so completely as to attain their race's goal.

[Tritium315]

At the end of the third game, that's about it.