311 réponses à ce sujet

[alberto4395]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...
 Every other time the Reapers are referred to as "Reapers," which are differentiated from your run-of-the-mill synthetics by the fact that they're a fusion of Organic and Synthetic (see the Reaper-nator in ME2).

They're a fusion because synthetics(or organics enslaved by synthetics) killed a crapload of organics, made slushies out of them, and injected the slush like heroin into the fetus machines they were making. Not exactly evidence against the synthetic/organic conflict theme.

You don't understand. The Reapers cannot be used to support organics vs synthetics because they aren't the synthetics in that. The reapers actions are not the synthetics actions.

ive given examples of organics vs synthetics when the reapers are not involved at all

I wasn't talking about your examples.

[Bill Casey]

Eluril wrote...

I'm not going to keep arguing subjective opinions about the precise moments each of us thought the Reapers were part organic. They identify in my mind 95% as synthetic because of their size, shape, manner of speaking, machine like behavior patterns etc. Just because they liquify organics into a puree doesn't mean they are 50/50 organic machines. I only began thinking of them as partially organic at the end of ME2, we could take a poll but I don't care to keep arguing about it.

Fair enough, but for the record, I thought they were hybrids since Virmire, and became pretty damn sure of it on the Citadel...

[Eluril]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eluril wrote...
Synthetic evolution is the whole idea of the technological singularity which is the overarching idea of the series and universe in my opinion.

Uhm, that's not what the Tech Singularity is, nor is it only restrict to synthetics, and it was never a big theme. At all. Stopping the Space Squids was.

I could quote directly from Ray Kurzweil how singularity is the point beyond which machine intelligence advances far beyond organic intelligence. It is the overarching idea of the series, period plain and simple. If we agree that the reapers are organic-synthetic hybrids it only strengthens the case because the Catalyst's solution is a crude way to "have his cake and eat it too" : He forces a singularity of one form in order to avoid the singularity of a different form.

[alberto4395]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

Someone told me that humanity's place in the galaxy was the central theme and when I thought about the ending dilemmas of 1 and 2 (destroy/save council and destroy/keep the base for Cerberus) it seemed to line up with that.

Until a certain new lead writer came in...

Mac Walters has been a lead writer since Mass Effect 2. He's not new.

Yeah been then he had Drew to keep him from doing anything stupid

Well they couldn't screw up Mass Effect 2's plot. It never had one.

EDIT: Going off-topic. Sorry about that.

It did but ME3 killed it.

[dreman9999]

alberto4395 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

Someone told me that humanity's place in the galaxy was the central theme and when I thought about the ending dilemmas of 1 and 2 (destroy/save council and destroy/keep the base for Cerberus) it seemed to line up with that.

Until a certain new lead writer came in...

Mac Walters has been a lead writer since Mass Effect 2. He's not new.

Yeah been then he had Drew to keep him from doing anything stupid

Well they couldn't screw up Mass Effect 2's plot. It never had one.

EDIT: Going off-topic. Sorry about that.

It did but ME3 killed it.

The plot and story of ME3 are fine...It just the ending people has problems with.

Modifié par dreman9999, 11 juillet 2012 - 04:34 .

[Bill Casey]

Eluril wrote...

I could quote directly from Ray Kurzweil

Please don't...
Kurzweil is a hack...

[Mr Powers94]

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

Someone told me that humanity's place in the galaxy was the central theme and when I thought about the ending dilemmas of 1 and 2 (destroy/save council and destroy/keep the base for Cerberus) it seemed to line up with that.

Until a certain new lead writer came in...

Mac Walters has been a lead writer since Mass Effect 2. He's not new.

Yeah been then he had Drew to keep him from doing anything stupid

Well they couldn't screw up Mass Effect 2's plot. It never had one.

EDIT: Going off-topic. Sorry about that.

It did but ME3 killed it.

The plot and story of ME3 are fine...It just the ending people has problems with.

agreed. alot of people just wanted to see shepard with their LI in the end. The EC is a great improvment i think because it gives the player hope that the ME universe will continue on

[Eluril]

Bill Casey wrote...

Eluril wrote...

I could quote directly from Ray Kurzweil

Please don't...
Kurzweil is a hack...

I'm sure the blind people using his inventions to read diagree...look it's clear we have wide philosophical differences and lets leave it at that.

[Ticonderoga117]

Eluril wrote...
I could quote directly from Ray Kurzweil how singularity is the point beyond which machine intelligence advances far beyond organic intelligence. It is the overarching idea of the series, period plain and simple. If we agree that the reapers are organic-synthetic hybrids it only strengthens the case because the Catalyst's solution is a crude way to "have his cake and eat it too" : He forces a singularity of one form in order to avoid the singularity of a different form.

It's not about machine intelligence, it's ANY intelligence. Whether it be organic, synthetic, or a combination of both, to reach the point where it becomes so smart, it's impossible to predict.

From Vernor Vinge:

• here may be developed
  
  computers that are "awake" and superhumanly intelligent. (To
  
  date, there has been much controversy as to whether we can create human
  
  equivalence in a machine. But if the answer is "yes, we can",
  
  then there is little doubt that beings more intelligent can be constructed
  
  shortly thereafter.)
• Large computer
  
  networks (and their associated users) may "wake up" as a superhumanly
  
  intelligent entity.
• Computer/human
  
  interfaces may become so intimate that users may reasonably be considered
  
  superhumanly intelligent.
• Biological science
  
  may provide means to improve natural human intellect.

Source

So, organics can do it to, maybe. It's not just machines. In fact, that was part of the whole Overlord thing.

So, please try to say that one of the guys who came up with the idea is wrong and that ONLY machines can do it.

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Eluril wrote...
I could quote directly from Ray Kurzweil how singularity is the point beyond which machine intelligence advances far beyond organic intelligence. It is the overarching idea of the series, period plain and simple. If we agree that the reapers are organic-synthetic hybrids it only strengthens the case because the Catalyst's solution is a crude way to "have his cake and eat it too" : He forces a singularity of one form in order to avoid the singularity of a different form.

It's not about machine intelligence, it's ANY intelligence. Whether it be organic, synthetic, or a combination of both, to reach the point where it becomes so smart, it's impossible to predict.

From Vernor Vinge:

• here may be developed
  
  computers that are "awake" and superhumanly intelligent. (To
  
  date, there has been much controversy as to whether we can create human
  
  equivalence in a machine. But if the answer is "yes, we can",
  
  then there is little doubt that beings more intelligent can be constructed
  
  shortly thereafter.)
• Large computer
  
  networks (and their associated users) may "wake up" as a superhumanly
  
  intelligent entity.
• Computer/human
  
  interfaces may become so intimate that users may reasonably be considered
  
  superhumanly intelligent.
• Biological science
  
  may provide means to improve natural human intellect.

Source

So, organics can do it to, maybe. It's not just machines. In fact, that was part of the whole Overlord thing.

So, please try to say that one of the guys who came up with the idea is wrong and that ONLY machines can do it.

If we can get some spice and some love making going on, we can have as much natural advance computers as we like.(Cookie for the first person to get this)

Modifié par dreman9999, 11 juillet 2012 - 04:40 .

[alberto4395]

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Eluril wrote...

You'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss this as the overarching theme of the series. Throughout Mass Effect 1 and almost the entirety of ME2 the Reapers are presented as purely synthetics to the player. It is only near the End of ME2 that the player is explicitly told that the Reapers are also partially organic.

In addition, we have information about two cycles ours and the Protheans. In both cycles there was conflict between synthetics and organics. Who started it, why it happened etc. is irrelevant to the Catalyst's problem. The only problem it cares about is that there IS conflict. Whether the Protheans and the Quarians started it or not is not part of its calculus as it does not care.

Holy shnikes!  This.

The conflict was only the entirety of ME1 - Geth invading the Terminus anyone? - the majority of ME2 - Reaperized Protheans [everything replaced by TECH!] anyone? - and then the focus of ME3.  No, you're right OP, they just dragged that in out of nowhere.

Even in ME1 we learn that the Geth are just tools to the Reapers.
ME2 nothing the reapers do counts towards the ending because they aren't the synthetics in organics vs synthetics.
ME3 had this pop up as a side thing. (Rannoch, EDI, Javik(DLC) )

The reapers themselve are examples. And your ignoring overlord and the virus mech mission.

The reapers cannot be examples because they are not part of the synthetic vs organic "problem".
Overlord was similar but very different because it was a man controlling the machines not the machines on their own.
The virus was an unimportant side quest and it was a VI not AI like the reapers apparently want to stop.

[dreman9999]

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Eluril wrote...

You'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss this as the overarching theme of the series. Throughout Mass Effect 1 and almost the entirety of ME2 the Reapers are presented as purely synthetics to the player. It is only near the End of ME2 that the player is explicitly told that the Reapers are also partially organic.

In addition, we have information about two cycles ours and the Protheans. In both cycles there was conflict between synthetics and organics. Who started it, why it happened etc. is irrelevant to the Catalyst's problem. The only problem it cares about is that there IS conflict. Whether the Protheans and the Quarians started it or not is not part of its calculus as it does not care.

Holy shnikes!  This.

The conflict was only the entirety of ME1 - Geth invading the Terminus anyone? - the majority of ME2 - Reaperized Protheans [everything replaced by TECH!] anyone? - and then the focus of ME3.  No, you're right OP, they just dragged that in out of nowhere.

Even in ME1 we learn that the Geth are just tools to the Reapers.
ME2 nothing the reapers do counts towards the ending because they aren't the synthetics in organics vs synthetics.
ME3 had this pop up as a side thing. (Rannoch, EDI, Javik(DLC) )

The reapers themselve are examples. And your ignoring overlord and the virus mech mission.

The reapers cannot be examples because they are not part of the synthetic vs organic "problem".
Overlord was similar but very different because it was a man controlling the machines not the machines on their own.
The virus was an unimportant side quest and it was a VI not AI like the reapers apparently want to stop.

Yes they are.
You need to take note to why conflict happen with synthetics.
There two reasons why:
They are ordered to attack.
Or they defend themselves.

You ignoring the fact that synthetics can destory us by just being tools, not in retaliation. That's the example the reapers present. It not just what happen to the geth that is an example. There is project overlord, and the Virus mech mission in ME2 that shows these examples.  

[alberto4395]

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

Someone told me that humanity's place in the galaxy was the central theme and when I thought about the ending dilemmas of 1 and 2 (destroy/save council and destroy/keep the base for Cerberus) it seemed to line up with that.

Until a certain new lead writer came in...

Mac Walters has been a lead writer since Mass Effect 2. He's not new.

Yeah been then he had Drew to keep him from doing anything stupid

Well they couldn't screw up Mass Effect 2's plot. It never had one.

EDIT: Going off-topic. Sorry about that.

It did but ME3 killed it.

The plot and story of ME3 are fine...It just the ending people has problems with.

It isn't "fine" but it can be overlooked. I was referring to the fact that ME3 ignored what ME2 was about.

[Mr Powers94]

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Eluril wrote...

You'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss this as the overarching theme of the series. Throughout Mass Effect 1 and almost the entirety of ME2 the Reapers are presented as purely synthetics to the player. It is only near the End of ME2 that the player is explicitly told that the Reapers are also partially organic.

In addition, we have information about two cycles ours and the Protheans. In both cycles there was conflict between synthetics and organics. Who started it, why it happened etc. is irrelevant to the Catalyst's problem. The only problem it cares about is that there IS conflict. Whether the Protheans and the Quarians started it or not is not part of its calculus as it does not care.

Holy shnikes!  This.

The conflict was only the entirety of ME1 - Geth invading the Terminus anyone? - the majority of ME2 - Reaperized Protheans [everything replaced by TECH!] anyone? - and then the focus of ME3.  No, you're right OP, they just dragged that in out of nowhere.

Even in ME1 we learn that the Geth are just tools to the Reapers.
ME2 nothing the reapers do counts towards the ending because they aren't the synthetics in organics vs synthetics.
ME3 had this pop up as a side thing. (Rannoch, EDI, Javik(DLC) )

The reapers themselve are examples. And your ignoring overlord and the virus mech mission.

The reapers cannot be examples because they are not part of the synthetic vs organic "problem".
Overlord was similar but very different because it was a man controlling the machines not the machines on their own.
The virus was an unimportant side quest and it was a VI not AI like the reapers apparently want to stop.

the fact that it was a side quest does not determin its importance. in a book the are many side plots but they are just as important as the main story because they help build the fictional world you observing in your mind as you read. 

Modifié par Mr Powers94, 11 juillet 2012 - 04:48 .

[AnsinJung]

No, this game was never about the singularity, rofl.  ME has more in common with the Magic School Bus.

Modifié par AnsinJung, 11 juillet 2012 - 04:49 .

[Mr Powers94]

AnsinJung wrote...

No, this game was never about the singularity, rofl. This game has more in common with the Magic School Bus.

i disagree with your opinion but i will not attack you for it or try to change your mind because you are entitled to your own opinion, I would only ask that while we accept your criticism we would also like you to be mindfull of our opinions, and the fact that your comment may be seen as an attack against those who belive that the singularity was involved in the plot line. 

Modifié par Mr Powers94, 11 juillet 2012 - 04:54 .

[dreman9999]

Mr Powers94 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Eluril wrote...

You'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss this as the overarching theme of the series. Throughout Mass Effect 1 and almost the entirety of ME2 the Reapers are presented as purely synthetics to the player. It is only near the End of ME2 that the player is explicitly told that the Reapers are also partially organic.

In addition, we have information about two cycles ours and the Protheans. In both cycles there was conflict between synthetics and organics. Who started it, why it happened etc. is irrelevant to the Catalyst's problem. The only problem it cares about is that there IS conflict. Whether the Protheans and the Quarians started it or not is not part of its calculus as it does not care.

Holy shnikes!  This.

The conflict was only the entirety of ME1 - Geth invading the Terminus anyone? - the majority of ME2 - Reaperized Protheans [everything replaced by TECH!] anyone? - and then the focus of ME3.  No, you're right OP, they just dragged that in out of nowhere.

Even in ME1 we learn that the Geth are just tools to the Reapers.
ME2 nothing the reapers do counts towards the ending because they aren't the synthetics in organics vs synthetics.
ME3 had this pop up as a side thing. (Rannoch, EDI, Javik(DLC) )

The reapers themselve are examples. And your ignoring overlord and the virus mech mission.

The reapers cannot be examples because they are not part of the synthetic vs organic "problem".
Overlord was similar but very different because it was a man controlling the machines not the machines on their own.
The virus was an unimportant side quest and it was a VI not AI like the reapers apparently want to stop.

the fact that it was a side quest does not determin its importance. in a book the are many side plots but they are just as important as the main story because they help build the fictional world you observing in your mind as you read. 

It's not just with those mission. The heritic geth can be seen the same way. Didn't we rewrite them to thing differently in ME2.
What did Legion say about them?

He said the heritic geth only wants to destroy organics because there gods demand it. This is the very concept of an Ai destroying based on being command to do so.

[dreman9999]

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

Someone told me that humanity's place in the galaxy was the central theme and when I thought about the ending dilemmas of 1 and 2 (destroy/save council and destroy/keep the base for Cerberus) it seemed to line up with that.

Until a certain new lead writer came in...

Mac Walters has been a lead writer since Mass Effect 2. He's not new.

Yeah been then he had Drew to keep him from doing anything stupid

Well they couldn't screw up Mass Effect 2's plot. It never had one.

EDIT: Going off-topic. Sorry about that.

It did but ME3 killed it.

The plot and story of ME3 are fine...It just the ending people has problems with.

It isn't "fine" but it can be overlooked. I was referring to the fact that ME3 ignored what ME2 was about.

ME2 was about finding more info on the reapers by attacking the collectosr and slowing the reapers pre advancements down. ME3 doesn't ignore this, if fact the ending at low ems is depended on you choice in ME2.

[alberto4395]

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Eluril wrote...

You'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss this as the overarching theme of the series. Throughout Mass Effect 1 and almost the entirety of ME2 the Reapers are presented as purely synthetics to the player. It is only near the End of ME2 that the player is explicitly told that the Reapers are also partially organic.

In addition, we have information about two cycles ours and the Protheans. In both cycles there was conflict between synthetics and organics. Who started it, why it happened etc. is irrelevant to the Catalyst's problem. The only problem it cares about is that there IS conflict. Whether the Protheans and the Quarians started it or not is not part of its calculus as it does not care.

Holy shnikes!  This.

The conflict was only the entirety of ME1 - Geth invading the Terminus anyone? - the majority of ME2 - Reaperized Protheans [everything replaced by TECH!] anyone? - and then the focus of ME3.  No, you're right OP, they just dragged that in out of nowhere.

Even in ME1 we learn that the Geth are just tools to the Reapers.
ME2 nothing the reapers do counts towards the ending because they aren't the synthetics in organics vs synthetics.
ME3 had this pop up as a side thing. (Rannoch, EDI, Javik(DLC) )

The reapers themselve are examples. And your ignoring overlord and the virus mech mission.

The reapers cannot be examples because they are not part of the synthetic vs organic "problem".
Overlord was similar but very different because it was a man controlling the machines not the machines on their own.
The virus was an unimportant side quest and it was a VI not AI like the reapers apparently want to stop.

Yes they are.
You need to take note to why conflict happen with synthetics.
There two reasons why:
They are ordered to attack.
Or they defend themselves.

You ignoring the fact that synthetics can destory us by just being tools, not in retaliation. That's the example the reapers present. It not just what happen to the geth that is an example. There is project overlord, and the Virus mech mission in ME2 that shows these examples.  

I am not ignoring anything but you don't seem to understand (no offense meant). The reapers can't be used in support of this because this is supposed to be a naturally occuring problem and when they force the problem it is now vs reapers. Synthetics as tools is not what the catalyst defines as the problem (which means overlord doesn't count). Free self evolving AI like EDI are the problem to them(Malfunctioning VI or viruses aren't part of this).

[Mr Powers94]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Powers94 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Eluril wrote...

You'd have to be willfully ignorant to miss this as the overarching theme of the series. Throughout Mass Effect 1 and almost the entirety of ME2 the Reapers are presented as purely synthetics to the player. It is only near the End of ME2 that the player is explicitly told that the Reapers are also partially organic.

In addition, we have information about two cycles ours and the Protheans. In both cycles there was conflict between synthetics and organics. Who started it, why it happened etc. is irrelevant to the Catalyst's problem. The only problem it cares about is that there IS conflict. Whether the Protheans and the Quarians started it or not is not part of its calculus as it does not care.

Holy shnikes!  This.

The conflict was only the entirety of ME1 - Geth invading the Terminus anyone? - the majority of ME2 - Reaperized Protheans [everything replaced by TECH!] anyone? - and then the focus of ME3.  No, you're right OP, they just dragged that in out of nowhere.

Even in ME1 we learn that the Geth are just tools to the Reapers.
ME2 nothing the reapers do counts towards the ending because they aren't the synthetics in organics vs synthetics.
ME3 had this pop up as a side thing. (Rannoch, EDI, Javik(DLC) )

The reapers themselve are examples. And your ignoring overlord and the virus mech mission.

The reapers cannot be examples because they are not part of the synthetic vs organic "problem".
Overlord was similar but very different because it was a man controlling the machines not the machines on their own.
The virus was an unimportant side quest and it was a VI not AI like the reapers apparently want to stop.

the fact that it was a side quest does not determin its importance. in a book the are many side plots but they are just as important as the main story because they help build the fictional world you observing in your mind as you read. 

It's not just with those mission. The heritic geth can be seen the same way. Didn't we rewrite them to thing differently in ME2.
What did Legion say about them?

He said the heritic geth only wants to destroy organics because there gods demand it. This is the very concept of an Ai destroying based on being command to do so.

also the geth are not dominated by the reapers some chose to join them  and fight the organics where as some did not if the geth were being dominated or had been indoctrinated all the geth would serve the reapers. there fore the heretics aggression is in part do to their freewill. so they can be used as examples for organics versus synthetics.

[dreman9999]

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

Someone told me that humanity's place in the galaxy was the central theme and when I thought about the ending dilemmas of 1 and 2 (destroy/save council and destroy/keep the base for Cerberus) it seemed to line up with that.

Until a certain new lead writer came in...

Mac Walters has been a lead writer since Mass Effect 2. He's not new.

Yeah been then he had Drew to keep him from doing anything stupid

Well they couldn't screw up Mass Effect 2's plot. It never had one.

EDIT: Going off-topic. Sorry about that.

It did but ME3 killed it.

The plot and story of ME3 are fine...It just the ending people has problems with.

It isn't "fine" but it can be overlooked. I was referring to the fact that ME3 ignored what ME2 was about.

The only bad things about the plot of ME3 is how the crucible waspresented to the player and it need moremissions...That's it.
It's basicly fine.

[Psychlonus]

dreman9999 wrote...

Psychlonus wrote...

Until the last 10 minutes, I always thought the synthetic vs organic thing was just one of many constructs put there to create moral dilemmas for the player. The unique bit with Mass Effect AI is the exposition that AI are self-aware. And the only thing such exposition creates is the moral dilemma of AI being a race. I thought having a Geth and EDI as squaddies was just put there to further that point: don't be a racist, they're just like everyone else. Then in the last 10 minutes we are told that no, that race isn't just like any other race...

That isn't what was shown about them at all. It's not to not be racist, it to understand them. ME2 and ME3 took the time to show the difference of synthetics form organics, but through understanding we can get along. The ending just show the biggest fault synthetic have, they just do what they are programed to do and can only be free if they cwn rewrite their own programing. And they are just as dangerous shackled as then unshackled....Even worst shackled because the don't have the freedom to stop themselves.

The last 10 minutes shows that being a paragon in this particular moral dilemma was pointless all along. If you accept what you are told about the technological singularity, genocide is the only choice--it's not a dilemma. But up until the last 10 minutes, the story arc was presented as a moral dilemma.

[CronoDragoon]

alberto4395 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...
 Every other time the Reapers are referred to as "Reapers," which are differentiated from your run-of-the-mill synthetics by the fact that they're a fusion of Organic and Synthetic (see the Reaper-nator in ME2).

They're a fusion because synthetics(or organics enslaved by synthetics) killed a crapload of organics, made slushies out of them, and injected the slush like heroin into the fetus machines they were making. Not exactly evidence against the synthetic/organic conflict theme.

You don't understand. The Reapers cannot be used to support organics vs synthetics because they aren't the synthetics in that. The reapers actions are not the synthetics actions.

I'm not talking about the Catalyst, if that's what you think. The Catalyst excludes Reapers from his version of the synthetic/organic conflict, but what does that have to do with anything? We're talking about synthetic/organic conflict as a theme of the series. It's clearly been there from the beginning, and the fact that Reapers injected organic matter into themselves to make them "hybrids" doesn't suddenly make it otherwise. 

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 11 juillet 2012 - 05:03 .

[Mr Powers94]

CronoDragoon wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

TheMarshal wrote...
 Every other time the Reapers are referred to as "Reapers," which are differentiated from your run-of-the-mill synthetics by the fact that they're a fusion of Organic and Synthetic (see the Reaper-nator in ME2).

They're a fusion because synthetics(or organics enslaved by synthetics) killed a crapload of organics, made slushies out of them, and injected the slush like heroin into the fetus machines they were making. Not exactly evidence against the synthetic/organic conflict theme.

You don't understand. The Reapers cannot be used to support organics vs synthetics because they aren't the synthetics in that. The reapers actions are not the synthetics actions.

I'm not talking about the Catalyst, if that's what you think. The Catalyst excludes Reapers from his version of the synthetic/organic conflict, but what does that have to do with anything? We're talking about synthetic/organic conflict as a theme of the series. It's clearly been there, and the fact that Reapers injected organic matter into themselves to make them "hybrids" doesn't suddenly make it otherwise. 

agreed

[alberto4395]

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

alberto4395 wrote...

KnifeForkAndSpoon wrote...

Someone told me that humanity's place in the galaxy was the central theme and when I thought about the ending dilemmas of 1 and 2 (destroy/save council and destroy/keep the base for Cerberus) it seemed to line up with that.

Until a certain new lead writer came in...

Mac Walters has been a lead writer since Mass Effect 2. He's not new.

Yeah been then he had Drew to keep him from doing anything stupid

Well they couldn't screw up Mass Effect 2's plot. It never had one.

EDIT: Going off-topic. Sorry about that.

It did but ME3 killed it.

The plot and story of ME3 are fine...It just the ending people has problems with.

It isn't "fine" but it can be overlooked. I was referring to the fact that ME3 ignored what ME2 was about.

ME2 was about finding more info on the reapers by attacking the collectosr and slowing the reapers pre advancements down. ME3 doesn't ignore this, if fact the ending at low ems is depended on you choice in ME2.

ME2 was about how humans were unique among aliens and that the reapers wanted them for a reason ME3 never expanded upon.