107 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

CrustyBot wrote...

Don't like the idea of weapon scaling according to level.

But I'll suggest another way to keep weapons useful for long periods of time - what about having weapons gain in strength according to the deeds you do with it/people you kill with appropriate bonuses?

It'd be like forging the story of a magical/epic weapon/armor.

Sounds like what Varric and Bianca. 

I approve.

[ianvillan]

CrustyBot wrote...

Don't like the idea of weapon scaling according to level.

But I'll suggest another way to keep weapons useful for long periods of time - what about having weapons gain in strength according to the deeds you do with it/people you kill with appropriate bonuses?

It'd be like forging the story of a magical/epic weapon/armor. The greater the deed, the more it grows in stature. By the end of the game, you'd have this legendary weapon that has stats according to the specific deeds you carried out with it (either get the last hit, or do x% damage to it). For example, slaying a Dragon would yield a different bonus to killing a Bandit Lord.

The other, easier and more logical method, would simply be to reduce the magnitude of the power curve for progression in the game. It means you won't be killing dozens of mooks at once who used to be difficult mini-bosses 10 hours ago, but it does mean that weapons are more viable for long term use.

Would also help in making magical items suitably epic, since there isn't inherently an EPICER magical item in the next Act that makes the supposedly anciently epic item you're currently carrying redundant.

Or another thing you could do is upgrade your sword with certain loot items you find, But there should be a compromise like you get that high dragon blood and it can be used to give you a new spec, improve your armour or improve your weapon but you only get to do one.

[Todd23]

I think that Vigilance should be found in the possession of someone the blade has found unworthy and is driving him mad. Then we get it, and once in a while have the option to sacrifice a fallen enemy to add to it's power.
Edit:  And near the end have an option to give it back to the warden for a great reward from him/her.

Modifié par Todd23, 11 juillet 2012 - 07:42 .

[AkiKishi]

While it makes sense. A sword is just a piece of iron in the hands of someone without training. It does also remove that core element of gearing up from game as well.

Being able to customise your weapon based on your skill level could be a nice option. But there is a lot to be said for finding a Vorpal Sword +5 in a loot horde too

[AkiKishi]

wowpwnslol wrote...

No. It removes the challenge of upgrading your gear with every level. Go play final fantasy if you don't want to work to gear up your character.

Given the ammount of effort it takes to get the top weapons in FF It looks like you have never played Final Fantasy.

[fchopin]

No level scaling for weapons or monsters.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Hate the idea.

I want sword to be sword - the same for everyone. I also don't want big differences OR redicolous scaling requirements.

I pretty much HATE the system DA uses.


"Oh, you cna swing this big greatswrod around with no problems? Too bad, cause you can't swing this slightly smaller one..because it's of a higher level and you need 28746 STR!"

The Attributes and weapon stats gone wild is the worst thing ever; all the produict of MMO's and their misguided idea to have the player feel more "powerfull" and give them mroe NUMBERS and bigger NUMBERS to strive too.


I miss the old days when if you had 17 STR you could wield any sword from the get-go.
And when you were effective even with your normal steel weapon for the whole game, because the weapons didn't scale to redicolous proportions.

[FedericoV]

Simple answer: I hope they completely remove level scaling in general. I know that it's simpler to balance a level scaled game. But at terrible costs in terms of diversity and flavour. You seem to fight always the same enemies, using the same weapons. Only, the numbers get bigger. It's just so... stupid. And boring. Especially for a story driven game wich should be easier to balance when compared to an open world game (I mean, I replayed Morrowind lately and now I understand why Bethesda has choosen to scale most components of the game even if i do not like the solution).

Give me back the joy of gaining Carsomyr!

Modifié par FedericoV, 11 juillet 2012 - 11:49 .

[AkiKishi]

FedericoV wrote...

Simple answer: I hope they completely remove level scaling in general. I know that it's simpler to balance a level scaled game. But at terrible costs in terms of diversity and flavour. You seem to fight always the same enemies, using the same weapons. Only, the numbers get bigger. It's just so... stupid. And boring. Especially for a story driven game wich should be easier to balance everything if compared to an open world game (I mean, I replayed Morrowind lately and now I understand why Bethesda has choosen to scale most components of the game even if i do not like the solution).

Give me back the joy of gaining Carsomyr!

Could be why I'm enjoying Rainbow Moon so much.

[FedericoV]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Could be why I'm enjoying Rainbow Moon so much.

Sorry, what is Rainbow Moon? JRPG?

PS: No worries. I read your post in Obsidian's forums .

Modifié par FedericoV, 11 juillet 2012 - 11:53 .

[AkiKishi]

FedericoV wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Could be why I'm enjoying Rainbow Moon so much.

Sorry, what is Rainbow Moon? JRPG?

It's a PSN download game. Turn Based party of 3(max 6), similiar to Disgaea but with a fully explorable overland map a bit like the early FF games. I'm around 40 hours in and I still don't have the final party member.

[Barry Bathernak]

This idea is bad. Aesthetics are just that, they are not stats and their for should not be the reason that an item got better because you leveled up and love a weapon. And to those who would rather put they're character in a pretty dress to fight then guess what you shouldn't be surprised when you die again and again. Oh and KiddDBeauty mass effect 1 is the only one with an inventory and that was scaled also so you seem to be hypocritical right now since m.e.2 and m.e.3 both had you go to an armory for you guns.

p.s. If you love a piece of gear a lot then just put in a storage chest when it can no longer be useful or put in your alt weapon spot.

Modifié par Barry Bathernak, 11 juillet 2012 - 12:32 .

[-Semper-]

as soon as i read the word scaling i know that the system will be utter ****.

BobSmith101 wrote...

While it makes sense. A sword is just
a piece of iron in the hands of someone without training.

no, it is not. a sharp sword within the hands of an untrained peasant is still a damn sharp sword. by your definition a clump of rusty iron will magically transform into a bastard sword of heaven + 12 because it is wielded by a grandmaster.

it's right that trained people can use a wooden stick as a weapon, but the item itself won't transform. it's the skill which levels up

Modifié par -Semper-, 11 juillet 2012 - 12:38 .

[wsandista]

No. An iron sword should be an iron sword throughout the entire game. The only scaling I like is material scaling like in Skyrim or DAO, because the weapons don't change properties as you level up.

On level-scaling in general, possibly one of the worst "innovations" of modern cRPGs. I see no reason why a low-level bandit will give my Lvl.17 PC the same trouble they gave my Lvl. 2 PC.

[AkiKishi]

-Semper- wrote...

as soon as i read the word scaling i know that the system will be utter ****.

BobSmith101 wrote...

While it makes sense. A sword is just
a piece of iron in the hands of someone without training.

no, it is not. a sharp sword within the hands of an untrained peasant is still a damn sharp sword. by your definition a clump of rusty iron will magically transform into a bastard sword of heaven + 12 because it is wielded by a grandmaster.

it's right that trained people can use a wooden stick as a weapon, but the item itself won't transform. it's the skill which levels up

It's a matter of effectiveness. The sword won't magically transform at all, it will just become more effective.

Who wins between the peasent with his sword or the grandmaster with the shinai.

Stuff like damage levels and hp's is just an abstraction.

[Kidd]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I miss the old days when if you had 17 STR you could wield any sword from the get-go.
And when you were effective even with your normal steel weapon for the whole game, because the weapons didn't scale to redicolous proportions.

I agree with this completely. But it seems unlikely we'll get such a major overhaul of the inventory system, hence the thoughts in my original post here. Feels like the second best, to me.

Barry Bathernak wrote...

Oh and KiddDBeauty mass effect 1 is the only one with an inventory and that was scaled also so you seem to be hypocritical right now since m.e.2 and m.e.3 both had you go to an armory for you guns. 

p.s. If you love a piece of gear a lot then just put in a storage chest when it can no longer be useful or put in your alt weapon spot.

First of all, you may as well throw away what you cannot reasonably use. You're never going to equip it again any way unless you know a certain quest won't involve any fighting and you want to look fabulous in the cutscenes.

As for ME and inventories, ME1 equipment does not scale with you. It's very similar to the DA inventory actually, where you get the same weapon multiple times, with the only difference being some arbitrary "tier" function to the item. Somehow the Scorpion VII is twice as powerful as the Scorpion IV, similar to how the red steel swords are somehow twice as powerful as the iron swords.

ME2/3 removes this and instead has gear that never gets old - you simply choose which kind of bonuses (and looks) you want and then you can go with it. Protective gear never ceases to be protective, gear that makes you agile never ceases to make you agile, etc. I love that system, aside from how you can't change gear outside of your cabin.

[Uccio]

No. No weapon nor armor scaling, I already hated that in DA2, don´t need more of it.

Modifié par Ukki, 11 juillet 2012 - 02:33 .

[Pasquale1234]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I would totally get behind a familiarity bonus mentioned above. Having skill with blades is one thing. Having intimate knowledge of exactly how a blade feels, is balanced, moves and reacts to blows would be a different set of information altogether. A rapier and a scimitar are both one handed swords, but have entirely different feels.

If the longer we used a weapon, the bigger skill or damage bonus we received, I would be totally fine with this. I think it Sten's Asapa, for instance, would have had such a bonus, it would have made it a viable weapon for him outside of RP reasons.

I would like a system like this, and make it entirely weapon-specific (as opposed to weapon type, i.e. rapier versus scimitar, although there could be lesser familiarity bonuses for them).

It would make it possible, for example, for Sten's Asala to be a relatively low level weapon in anyone else's hands, but the very best weapon for Sten.  My Cousland wardens wanted to use the family weapons throughout the game, but quickly outgrew them.  A familiarity bonus that would grow the longer the character used that specific weapon would alleviate that.  It would also make it easier to keep a pair of visually matched weapons on a rogue; as it stands now, keeping a rogue equipped with the best available weapons usually results in a visual mismatch.

[MichaelStuart]

If there going to have a leveling system, then they should have weapon scaling.
When I level up, I'm meant to be getting stronger, so it makes sense that I do more damage with weapons.
Of course, if enemies get stronger as well, it just makes leveling pointless.

In the end, I rather they just get of leveling altogether, and have player strength be determined by player skill.

[Fallstar]

Whilst I can see the appeal behind this idea, I'd find it a tad immersion breaking if my steel sword is just as effective as my incredibly rare (at least in lore) dragonbone sword. Having said that I didn't really pay much attention to the material weapons were made of in DA2, as I didn't notice any particular correlation between weapon material and damage output. For example the staff Cold Blooded is made from red steel I believe, yet it is the strongest cold damage staff in the (base) game.

So it appears as if the tiered material system isn't really being used anyway.

Modifié par DuskWarden, 11 juillet 2012 - 02:45 .

[Pasquale1234]

MichaelStuart wrote...

In the end, I rather they just get of leveling altogether, and have player strength be determined by player skill.

Which would remove any last vestige of genuine RPG mechanics.

[brushyourteeth]

From an RP standpoint, I thought it was totally weird how you could receive weapons in both games that were obviously supposed to be pretty impressive pieces of equipment but... weren't. Like when you start the alienage elf origin and Duncan is all "Oh wow, this is really important! Here, borrow my own personal BA Grey Warden sword!" and it... sucks.

So I totally support at least some weapons being able to scale with your level, especially the ones that have significant meaning for your character or origin. I always felt bad equipping Sten with Yusaris because we all know how important it was to him for him to wield Asala, but it just didn't compete with some of the later greatswords you get. I always ended up making Asala his secondary equip setting, but he pretty much never got to use it. Would be nice if things like Asala, Ser Wesley's shield, the Hawke's Key, Maric's sword, etc. had the option to scale with you the way Bianca did. I'd be totally fine with having them be slightly less impressive than some other, non-scaling weapons you can buy or pick up, especially if you have the option to enchant them. Honestly, there were a few of those weapons that I found aesthetically repulsive, so I like keeping the option of switching that weapon out for something comparable every few levels.

Cool topic, KiddDaBeauty. 

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 11 juillet 2012 - 02:56 .

[Its_a_Catdemon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I miss the old days when if you had 17 STR you could wield any sword from the get-go.
And when you were effective even with your normal steel weapon for the whole game, because the weapons didn't scale to redicolous proportions.

This so very much. How much better can a sword be? In what world can you possibly not be able to hold a small mace, but are perfectly fine with a huge, yet somehow weaker, hammer?

I'd also like a system like Me2/Me3 for equipment, it seems most are just immediately rejecting this topic from the logic that "Level scaling = Bad". I won't disagree with that logic, but the real point here is trying to find a weapon system without tiers, as all that ever amounts to is just replacing your weapon with the new one of that type with higher stats. While it would be better to instead choose based on looks (providing reason for the developers to make a greater number of good looking weapons and armors that can be used for substantial periods of time, as opposed to how currently little other than the champions set looks good), subtle differences in effects (like one axe doing ice damage or another having a higher critical rate), or roleplay and story based reasons, (like Alistair using Duncan's sword or Sten using his Asala).

[Dragoonlordz]

Used scaling weapons in DA2 via mods and have to say did not like it. While kept the weapons you liked look of the negative aspect is made rest of weapons pointless because needed only one through whole game. It simply did more damage to enjoyment than created. It made stats on them pointless and weapons merely vanity items.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 11 juillet 2012 - 03:19 .

[Wulfram]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Used scaling weapons in DA2 via mods and have to say did not like it. While kept the weapons you liked look of the negative aspect is made rest of weapons pointless because needed only one through whole game. It simply did more damage to enjoyment than created. It made stats on them pointless and weapons merely vanity items.

Interesting.  That's not how it worked out for me.  Even with level scaling fully in effect, late game items were still better than early game items.  Because early game items tend to have only one bonus, while late game items have 2 or 3

Modifié par Wulfram, 11 juillet 2012 - 03:31 .