15 réponses à ce sujet

[VibrantYacht]

As stated in my title, I just completed Dragon Age: Origins and Dragon Age II. Here are my thoughts for what they're worth.

I found both games to be compelling, hard to put down, and enjoyable to play. Overall I think Origins is the better game, but DA2 is, I think, not as terrible as it has been made out to be (a GameStop employee literally prevented me from purchasing it when I tried).

Everything I disliked about Dragon Age II took place in Act III. I think things got a little out of hand and off the rails at that point. Things I didn't think were possible in the Dragon Age universe occured (you can make statues come to life? You can make explosives?). It made me wonder what happened to the more "realistic fantasy" BioWare was going for with Dragon Age: Origins. I also felt that Meredith's character was severely cheapened by making her actions the side effect of a corrupt idol. I get that they were trying to make it so all acts of the story tied together but, as I said, it really, really, cheapened Meredith.

Apart from Act III the only other problem I had Dragon Age II were that the new "style" was hard to get used to. The Dark Fantasy aspect had almost completely gone away (I felt that Sundermount was pretty much the only place that had remnants of it).

I was actually okay with the reused environments for some reason. I also enjoyed the gameplay a little more (as I play on the Xbox). Though, I completely understand the anger of Computer users. I actually think that the Dragon Age games should be directed at them. Dragon Age: Origins was meant to be a "revival" of sorts for BioWare computer role-playing games and it was. Then Dragon Age II disregarded that as well and unfortunately tried to appeal to us console gamers.

Overall, I think Dragon Age II abandoned a lot the identity of Dragon Age: Origins (and what the series was supposed to be).

This isn't all to say that Dragon Age: Origins was perfect. It wasn't. I think that the typical BioWare story arc had gotten stale but Origins went with it anyway. Dragon Age II changed it up and I thought it was very effective (until Act III of course).

I also admit that when I first tried to play Dragon Age: Origins a few years ago I couldn't do it. I had always felt that Lord of the Rings was the Pinnacle of fantasy and all other efforts would never top it. I'm not saying Dragon Age has, but I feel more open minded about it and I believe I can enjoy different fantasy stories easier now and I think Dragon Age is quite a good one.

My recommendations for the future would be to remember identity (dark fantasy), cohesion with created world, and target audience (computer role-players).

If we're assigning numbers I'd say:
Dragon Age: Origins - 9/10
Dragon Age II - 7.5/10 (that looks bad like a bad number, but I honestly enjoyed DA2 a lot and expect to get more of it when I play it again soon).

[TEWR]

Things I didn't think were possible in the Dragon Age universe occured (you can make statues come to life?

They're makeshift Golems, bypassing the need for a living soul to animate them. The DAII Collector's Edition guide says they're Golems.

You can make explosives?).

Why wouldn't this be possible? The ingredients for the explosives were obviously ingredients from our world -- sela petrae is just saltpeter after all -- and the Qunari have explosives.

Plus, in DAO you could make Fire Bombs, Ice bombs, shock bombs, etc. And Dworkin in Awakening made lyrium explosives -- the intensity of which was dependant on what you told him to make.

I also felt that Meredith's character was severely cheapened by making her actions the side effect of a corrupt idol. I get that they were trying to make it so all acts of the story tied together but, as I said, it really, really, cheapened Meredith.

I've argued before that it's not the concept itself that's so bad, but how it was presented and handled.

Conceptually, there's some merit to the idea -- corrupted by power both literally and figuratively -- but the game doesn't really give it its due and only barely touches upon the concepts.

[dragonflight288]

Glad to see you enjoyed the games and share many of our opinions. That guy at gamestop who tried to stop you from buying DA2 however, probably deserves to get fired. You don't stop business from occurring, after all. lol.

What can I say, my mage amell was a lucrosian/libertarian. hahahaha.

[TEWR]

Also, I forgot to say this: Welcome to the crew!

[thats1evildude]

The lyrium idol's abilities weren't that unusual when you consider its guardians — a horde of animated rock creatures. It also made Meredith a credible end-game threat; without it, she's just a cougar in a metal suit.

Modifié par thats1evildude, 11 juillet 2012 - 03:28 .

[VibrantYacht]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Things I didn't think were possible in the Dragon Age universe occured (you can make statues come to life?

They're makeshift Golems, bypassing the need for a living soul to animate them. The DAII Collector's Edition guide says they're Golems.

You can make explosives?).

Why wouldn't this be possible? The ingredients for the explosives were obviously ingredients from our world -- sela petrae is just saltpeter after all -- and the Qunari have explosives.

Plus, in DAO you could make Fire Bombs, Ice bombs, shock bombs, etc. And Dworkin in Awakening made lyrium explosives -- the intensity of which was dependant on what you told him to make.

I also felt that Meredith's character was severely cheapened by making her actions the side effect of a corrupt idol. I get that they were trying to make it so all acts of the story tied together but, as I said, it really, really, cheapened Meredith.

I've argued before that it's not the concept itself that's so bad, but how it was presented and handled.

Conceptually, there's some merit to the idea -- corrupted by power both literally and figuratively -- but the game doesn't really give it its due and only barely touches upon the concepts.

Hmm... I get that they're sort of Golems... but weren't Golems dwarves who sealed themselves in the thingamajigs?... I'M NEW AT THIS!

Explosives were the wrong word perhaps. I mean, it just seemed odd how two laser beams shot out of Kirkwall's Chantry.

Also, thanks for the welcome!

[TEWR]

Hmm... I get that they're sort of Golems... but weren't Golems dwarves who sealed themselves in the thingamajigs?... I'M NEW AT THIS!

Well you're more or less correct. Golems are, as the Dwarves of Thedas understand them, living souls encased in stone/steel armor, where molten lyrium is then poured in the sockets. The armor is then made malleable and worked on to be perfect.

That's the method Caridin used.

DAII however, suggests that the need for a living soul is either unnecessary.... or is somehow encased in the lyrium idol. DAII also suggests that the Primeval Thaig Dwarves had access to some method of creating Golems as well. Whether it was the same as Caridin's method or different is unknown, but I'm going to assume it was more or less the same -- due to Orzammar also being near a Primeval Thaig, which might lend itself to how Caridin discovered the Anvil.

There's a lot of lore to take in and things you'll notice in-game that will lead you to go mad with speculative theories. Mad I say! 

Explosives were the wrong word perhaps. I mean, it just seemed odd how two laser beams shot out of Kirkwall's Chantry.

Ah that. That's either Rule of Cool in effect or Anders added some magical ingredients to his bomb mixture.

Or both. I can just see Justice/Vengeance saying "Go on, add the fire crystals and some lyrium. It'll be AWESOME"

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 juillet 2012 - 05:13 .

[Fallstar]

thats1evildude wrote...
 It also made Meredith a credible end-game threat; without it, she's just a cougar in a metal suit.

Underestimate such beings at your peril. *Shudders*

[The Twilight God]

VibrantYacht wrote...

Everything I disliked about Dragon Age II took place in Act III. I think things got a little out of hand and off the rails at that point. Things I didn't think were possible in the Dragon Age universe occured (you can make statues come to life? You can make explosives?). It made me wonder what happened to the more "realistic fantasy" BioWare was going for with Dragon Age: Origins. I also felt that Meredith's character was severely cheapened by making her actions the side effect of a corrupt idol. I get that they were trying to make it so all acts of the story tied together but, as I said, it really, really, cheapened Meredith.

The existence of some weird lyrium doesn't tie the Acts together. They aren;t tied together and the entirety of of the game does not lead to the ending. The ending just happens out of the blue. Anders could have pulled his little stun at any time. I found it funny that Varric tells Hawke's whole life story when nothing he mentions had any real effect on the events that the seeker was inquiring about. 

You had no problem with Act 1: Get da Money? Yeah, very inspiring plot
Your only issue was Act 3: Pointless Filler Until the Last Hour of Gameplay?
Act 2 was the only good part storywise. But again, it's a stand alone story that doesn't have any real bearing on anything that happens in the end.

VibrantYacht wrote...

Overall, I think Dragon Age II abandoned a lot the identity of Dragon Age: Origins (and what the series was supposed to be).

It also abandonned all the sales DA:O had. 

[Plaintiff]

The idol didn't make Meredith do anything she didn't want to do.

I don't see how it makes Dragon Age any more or less "realistic" than it was before. We already knew magic was a thing in Thedas. Verisimilitude comes from internal consistency, not from comparison to our own reality.

Sequels should always expand the world of the previous work and add new concepts, and not everything has to be explained right away (or even at all). Red lyrium is a previously unheard-of substance, and its effects are not yet known. I'm assuming that as the series progresses, we'll learn more about it.

[dragonflight288]

We may even learn the origin of the darkspawn.

I know the Chantry says the magisters are the origin, but it's been established in Awakening that awakened darkspawn cannot hear the call of the Old Gods (Mother driven insane by the silence, Architect wanting to free the shackles of the darkspawn enslaved by the song.) Corypheus was obviously influencing things through the taint, but he's an awakened darkspawn. He and the other magisters simply wouldn't be able to hear the old gods and track them down to start a blight.

We may even learn more of Arlathan and that place beyond the Fade that Morrigan spirited herself away to through an eluvian.

[thats1evildude]

dragonflight288 wrote...

I know the Chantry says the magisters are the origin, but it's been established in Awakening that awakened darkspawn cannot hear the call of the Old Gods (Mother driven insane by the silence, Architect wanting to free the shackles of the darkspawn enslaved by the song.) Corypheus was obviously influencing things through the taint, but he's an awakened darkspawn. He and the other magisters simply wouldn't be able to hear the old gods and track them down to start a blight.

There's a distinction between "Awakened" darkspawn and sentient darkspawn. The Architect was the latter, but he could still hear the song of the Old Gods. He was simply able to resist its allure by virtue of his intelligence. Awakened darkspawn can only be created by drinking Grey Warden blood. Corypheus was not an Awakened darkspawn.
 

[VibrantYacht]

The Twilight God wrote...
You had no problem with Act 1: Get da Money? Yeah, very inspiring plot

No, I had no problem with Act 1. I thought "Get da Money" was a very, very nice change of pace from the dire "you must save the universe" story found in most games. It was different, refreshing, and I found it to be compelling.
(Note: Ignoring other poitns as I don't feel I can adequately address them at this time).

[TEWR]

thats1evildude wrote...

The Architect was the latter, but he could still hear the song of the Old Gods

Unless the Calling said something different, the Architect falls into the former.

[Face of Evil]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...

The Architect was the latter, but he could still hear the song of the Old Gods

Unless the Calling said something different, the Architect falls into the former.

The Calling says different. He heard it. I assume he went through his Awakening ritual at some point.

[TEWR]

Face of Evil wrote...

The Calling says different. He heard it. I assume he went through his Awakening ritual at some point.

Hmm... assuming the Architect is another Tevinter Magister -- as that seems to be incredibly likely, due to the games all but stating it -- then that doesn't explain why Corypheus seems deaf to the Call of the Old Gods.