15 réponses à ce sujet

[Ragfell]

 Ok, it's been bothering me for nearly three years now - what are all the possibilities that happen in terms of Jowan's story? His personal story is one of the most intriguing of all the quest lines...it's not right that the story just...ends.
 
I know he has that quest, Jowan's Intentions...but what if he gets set back to the Circle? What then? GAH, there's so many options. Any insight? (the writers are especially welcome )

[Confederate Republic]

I'm no writer sadly, but I thought it was fairly certain that, if he is sent back to the Circle, he is either made Tranquil or executed, just as the Templars had always planned. If not, he could be killed in Castle Redcliffe. The only way for Jowan to not die/be made Tranquil is for your PC to tell him "Run, I never want to see you again." which allows him to leave, triggering the "Jowan's Intentions" quest in which you can either let him go to start a new life, free of magic and the circle, or kill him right there.

He was originally going to be a potential companion character that you could recruit into the Wardens or something after reviving Arl Eamon, or so I remember reading, but it was scrapped completely.

[Ragfell]

I knew that one. But what bothers me is that, should he go back to the circle, he can sometimes be seen in the Battle of Denerim. >.<

[Confederate Republic]

I've never seen, nor heard about Jowan in the battle of Denerim. Perhaps a writer knows different, but as far as I know, it's Tranquilization, Death, or Freedom through telling him to run and never come back. Sorry I'm not able to answer your question.

[TEWR]

I'm no writer sadly, but I thought it was fairly certain that, if he is sent back to the Circle, he is either made Tranquil or executed, just as the Templars had always planned

That's the most likely conclusion, certainly. But that's not really the only possibility, if he was the one that saved Arl Eamon's son from being an Abomination along with his vow to make things right.

There's also the third possibility: That they give him a second chance.

He's been an un-Harrowed mage for a good while now in the political realm no less -- which by dev comments increases the potential for powerful demons to be attracted to a Mage, though Connor was the more suitable candidate for demons -- and gives a vow that he wants to make things right.

Given the almost annihilated state of the Circle where Gregoir will accept that the Circle is safe upon Irving's word, it's possible they may give him another chance. Hell, you can spare a blood mage in Broken Circle and tell her to stay at the Circle. And I think for a (Mage) Warden Irving would let Jowan live if he abandoned blood magic, as a way to pay his debt to the Warden.

It's possible anyway. Does it happen? I doubt it very much, but it's possible nevertheless.

He was originally going to be a potential companion character that you could recruit into the Wardens or something after reviving Arl Eamon, or so I remember reading, but it was scrapped completely.

I really wish they hadn't scrapped that. Jowan would've made a decent Warden.

The only way for Jowan to not die/be made Tranquil is for your PC to tell him "Run, I never want to see you again." which allows him to leave, triggering the "Jowan's Intentions" quest in which you can either let him go to start a new life, free of magic and the circle, or kill him right there.

It's also worth mentioning that in Awakening you can have a random encounter where you'll find a scroll of names on a Templar corpse. One of those names happens to be Jowan.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:25 .

[Confederate Republic]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm no writer sadly, but I thought it was fairly certain that, if he is sent back to the Circle, he is either made Tranquil or executed, just as the Templars had always planned

That's the most likely conclusion, certainly. But that's not really the only possibility, if he was the one that saved Arl Eamon's son from being an Abomination along with his vow to make things right.

There's also the third possibility: That they give him a second chance.

He's been an un-Harrowed mage for a good while now in the political realm no less -- which by dev comments increases the potential for powerful demons to be attracted to a Mage, though Connor was the more suitable candidate for demons -- and gives a vow that he wants to make things right.

Given the almost annihilated state of the Circle where Gregoir will accept that the Circle is safe upon Irving's word, it's possible they may give him another chance. Hell, you can spare a blood mage in Broken Circle and tell her to stay at the Circle. And I think for a (Mage) Warden Irving would let Jowan live if he abandoned blood magic, as a way to pay his debt to the Warden.

Seriously? The Chantry? Give a BLOOD MAGE another chance? The Templars kill Mages for leaving the tower. A Known Maleficar? As Alistair would say, "It's more likely they'd shove a sword of mercy through her (his) chest." It doesn't matter if he gives it up or not, or how many people he saves. Even if he stopped the Blight itself, the only thing that would give him immunity to death would be to become a Grey Warden. Even THEN the Templars still track down and try to kill Anders, and he isn't even a known maleficar.

Not trying to belittle your opinions in any way, but I thought the Chantry's stance on Blood Mages was pretty obvious. If he returns to the Circle, being made Tranquil is already a long shot. More then likely he'll be run through mercilessly and without hesitation.

Modifié par Confederate Republic, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:30 .

[TEWR]

Confederate Republic wrote...

It doesn't matter if he gives it up or not, or how many people he saves. Even if he stopped the Blight itself, the only thing that would give him immunity to death would be to become a Grey Warden.

This is all true, but remember that Adralla was a Mage from Tevinter that studied the academic concepts and she was given sanctuary in non-Tevinter lands. She wasn't killed or made Tranquil.

The Chantry's stance is pretty much "Kill maleficarum" yes, but Leliana herself believes that the Chantry would accept a blood mage intent on repenting.

Indeed, I'm willing to believe Gregoir and Irving would place Jowan on some sort of probation -- or something similar -- where he's watched carefully. The first misstep, and it's his last.

Even THEN the Templars still track down and try to kill Anders, and he isn't even a known maleficar.

True, they didn't know if he was a blood mage, but they (erroneously) believed he was a murderer. Rylock was operating off of Chantry authority -- which is a clear sign of how the Chantry began to move against the Wardens.

The Wardens are to be given immunity from past crimes -- and apostates are free of the Chantry -- but that they chased Anders still is just bad.

Not trying to belittle your opinions in any way, but I thought the Chantry's stance on Blood Mages was pretty obvious. If he returns to the Circle, being made Tranquil is already a long shot. More then likely he'll be run through mercilessly and without hesitation.

Again, while their stance is more or less "Kill all blood mages", Leliana's own testimony on the matter with the female blood mage suggests that it can vary, depending on who is making the decision.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


The Chantry's stance is pretty much "Kill maleficarum" yes, but Leliana herself believes that the Chantry would accept a blood mage intent on repenting.

Meanwhile, Alistair believes they wouldn't. And he's the guy who recieved templar training.

[Ragfell]

See? This is why I ask. Plus, his story is the only one that doesn't receive a conclusion - we never KNOW what happens to him exactly if he goes back to the Circle. Leske is killed, Gorim's a merchant, Lily's sent to...Aeonar? The Noble's parents die, Soris is freed from the prison, and the Dalish companion (that origin just didn't get me too much) died from the corruption. Jowan's fate is similar to Morrigan's, in a way - it's left dangling.

The only reason I suggest he was sent to the Battle of Denerim was that I saw a guy that looked like him in the "Battle of Denerim" cutscene...which I'm not sure is dependent upon his survival/being sent to the Circle/execution.

Sigh...such good character writing.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Jowan's fate if you let him go was supposed to be answered by a quest called Jowan's Intention, wherein you meet him again, learn that he is sincere about wanting to help people, and can either kill him or send him on his way. I say supposed because I never managed to finish that quest. Even the bugfix mod I downloaded didn't help at all. <_<

At any rate, I'm pretty sure the Templars tranquilize him at best if they get him back. And even that's rather a long shot: if memory serves, Greagoir already sentenced him to death during the Origin.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 21 août 2012 - 11:58 .

[Jordan]

I travellled back to the Circle after this as I was unhappy with the Arl for not releasing him (how dare he defy me?), and I was disappointed to find...nothing.

[sylvanaerie]

In my mind, unless you tell him get away in the dungeon, he's killed. The blood mage in the tower isn't staying in the tower, she's escaping, becoming apostate (or killed depending on what you do).  A weird moment for me was when you find the Blood Mage corpse on the road outside Lothering, it looks just like the one who begs you for her life in the tower.

Jowan wasn't Anders, in that they assumed Anders a murderer, (and Rylock was a nutcase acting outside the law), Jowan actually DID attack templars and practice blood magic, and by his actions caused an entire village of people to undergo months/weeks(?)--I hate the game's timeline--of torturous attacks and death. Depending on what you do with him, (using his blood ritual to save Connor is pretty damning--Templars will see it as 'he murders a woman to save the life of a mage'--and that isn't going to be looked on with favor), it's going to be pretty damning against him. He's everything the Chantry warns about mages, even if he has 'good intentions'.

The only way to spare him would have been making him a Warden. Even freeing him, you send him into a life of constantly being on the run, looking over his shoulder and never knowing who he can rely on not to turn him in. For me it's also the least satisfying fate for him. At least he seems sincere in his desire to undo some of what he's caused in Redcliffe, sending him away just robs him of that chance to stand up finally and accept responsibility for his actions.

By the time you find him in the dungeon, he seems pretty sincere in his desire to make amends, but sadly, everything Jowan touches he ruins. He's a very selfish individual, (really what exactly did he think would happen to his friend he guilt-trips into helping him?  Tranquility/death was the least of what the Amell or Surana had waiting for them for aiding a blood mage) and that really hasn't changed much though he has matured immensely by his experiences.

As for the cutscene, there are limited resources creating the need for repeat faces/costuming. If you look at the Landsmeet scenes it's the same 8 or so nobles repeated over and over. Hell, even VAUGHAN is there during the choosing of the ruler scene, when my CE (and several of my other wardens) killed him!

Yet, even in Kirkwall as fubared up as that was, you can spare the life of and send *a blood mage* to the Circle. And you get a letter 3 years later telling you what's happened with her. She was watched very closely. Of course, her circumstances were different, but considering she was in a city that was always on a powderkeg of trouble, it is indeed possible that Jowan would simply be watched very, very carefully if he returned.

But I really, sincerely, doubt it.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:22 .

[Fallstar]

Jowan's intent was bugged for me, did anyone actually get it to work? I was always a bit curious about what happens to him.

[Blazomancer]

DuskWarden wrote...

Jowan's intent was bugged for me, did anyone actually get it to work? I was always a bit curious about what happens to him.

I guess it's bugged for everybody. If you're on the PC, you can use the console command 'runscript zz_ran_debug' to trigger the random encounter.

[Funkjoker]

It's also worth mentioning that in Awakening you can have a random encounter where you'll find a scroll of names on a Templar corpse. One of those names happens to be Jowan.

Mmmh... but there's no codex entry for it, is there? Also, there's no info about that on the wiki... which encounter was it?

DuskWarden wrote...

Jowan's intent was bugged for me, did anyone actually get it to work? I was always a bit curious about what happens to him.

Use the mod which fixes that

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 21 octobre 2012 - 09:34 .

[Blazomancer]

Jean-Funk Van Damme wrote...

Mmmh... but there's no codex entry for it, is there? Also, there's no info about that on the wiki... which encounter was it?

It's a random encounter that takes place in the 'Forest Clearing' location. The party is ambushed by Avvar warriors and archers. There are three Templar corpses to be seen lying near by, one of which, has the Wanted List, which includes Jowan's and Anders' name.

Modifié par Blazomancer, 22 octobre 2012 - 05:34 .