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[XOGHunter246]

Herr Uhl wrote...

XOGHunter246 wrote...



She has tactical mind like her father she can fool people very easy with a mind like that and she more aggressive with actions too. Don't let yourself be fooled by these vixens.

... Well Alastair has a horny mind just like his father. Proves my theory.



And Anora does never try to get you to do what she wants by seducing you. She goes with the side that is winning, simple logic.

Bet his father wasn't such a baby

[Obadiah]

If it was a plot by Anora, it was to get rid of Alistair. She seemed to be trying to do that on several occasions. She's certainly ruthless enough to try it, demonstrated by her attempt to get you all killed at the Landsmeet, or have Alistair executed.



However, she is still the competent ruler of Ferelden up until that point. Maybe that's what it takes to do that job?

[johnbgardner]

Sanarion wrote...

Does anyone know what happens if you win that fight? I am sure it is possible, if insanely difficult.

If you win the fight you simply return to Arl Eamon's estate and Anora is there, thanking you for her rescue.  She then asks to see your character alone and in that conversation asks you to support her in the Landsmeet.  Depending on how you respond, she'll either betray you or support you in the Landsmeet.  I set up about twenty traps along the long corridor leading to the courtyard where you encounter Ser Cauthrien and immediately ran back down it as soon as I was able to move.  The traps weakened the melee guards as they chased me and I could dispatch them (and Ser Cauthrien) in the corridor without having the archers making my people into hedgehogs.  Then I went back and took out the archers.  Wasn't very difficult as long as you didn't step out into the courtyard before setting the traps.

[Adria Teksuni]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Adria Teksuni wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...
And you know that Ali playing stupid and loveable is just a cover for his masterplan of taking power and making you sacrifice yourself to the archdemon.

All he had to do was ask...

Yes, see, he has you under his spell!

And that's a bad thing? 

[Akrim_Drak]

XOGHunter246 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

XOGHunter246 wrote...

She has tactical mind like her father she can fool people very easy with a mind like that and she more aggressive with actions too. Don't let yourself be fooled by these vixens.

... Well Alastair has a horny mind just like his father. Proves my theory.

And Anora does never try to get you to do what she wants by seducing you. She goes with the side that is winning, simple logic.

Bet his father wasn't such a baby

You can definitely tell Alistair is Maric's son. Maric is pretty whiny too if you read the books. Sure he eventually mans up and does what he knows he has to but it's not without complaints!

[Herr Uhl]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Yes, see, he has you under his spell!

And that's a bad thing? 

He is really a wife-beating elf-hater with three testicles. He made a deal to have Flemeth save you from the tower by having 3 hours in her hut just like his old man.

Still want him?

[T0paze]

Never allowed Anora to rule, either by herself or with Alistair. To me, she is a power-hungry opportunist, and I don't like power-hungry opportunists. What's more, I don't really think they always perform their duties better than people without so strong ambitions. They can, of course, but it's equally possible that they will do worse, and there are lots of examples of each outcome. Also, administration skills can, to some extent, be learned and taught, which is more than one can say about good nature.

Modifié par T0paze, 16 décembre 2009 - 06:32 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Unless you are playing as a female human noble, the only viable option in my opinion is to have Alistair marry Anora. Alistair isn't fit to rule alone, but at the same time you don't want Anora governing Ferelden alone. While entirely capable she is Loghain's daughter and you are going to want some checks and balances. I think the best ending for a male human noble is to have Alistair marry Anora, and have King Alistair make you his Chamberlain. That makes you a power behind the throne and a counterbalance to Anora.

[Cybercat999]

XOGHunter246 wrote...

Salking_85 wrote...

yeah and the droop from her wasnt that good. but damn she is hard!

#summer sword is good for a two handed weapon...........

Yes, but by the time you get it you have tons of other equally good or better 2-hander options in game.

Modifié par Cybercat999, 16 décembre 2009 - 06:40 .

[Adria Teksuni]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Adria Teksuni wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Yes, see, he has you under his spell!

And that's a bad thing? 

He is really a wife-beating elf-hater with three testicles. He made a deal to have Flemeth save you from the tower by having 3 hours in her hut just like his old man.

Still want him?

Three testicles?  Icko.  Sorry, Al, Loghain lives and you're not king.  Ponce off to have a pout now.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Loghian practicly deny any idea to imprison or kill his daughter (after you spare him and have him in your party).



So either Anora is just as creazily paraniod as her dear old dad (and is imagining enemies) or she lied big time.

Howe kidnaping her on her own is just crazy. He wouldn't dare go against Loghain.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Loghian practicly deny any idea to imprison or kill his daughter (after you spare him and have him in your party).



So either Anora is just as creazily paraniod as her dear old dad (and is imagining enemies) or she lied big time.

Howe kidnaping her on her own is just crazy. He wouldn't dare go against Loghain.

[menasure]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Loghian practicly deny any idea to imprison or kill his daughter (after you spare him and have him in your party).

So either Anora is just as creazily paraniod as her dear old dad (and is imagining enemies) or she lied big time.
Howe kidnaping her on her own is just crazy. He wouldn't dare go against Loghain.

exactly ... or at least not openly.
err when thinking about that the other option would be that Howe is effectively crazy or possessed or whatever ... a possibility which i would not exclude entirely but Anora does prove to be prone to double-crossing nevertheless

[Adria Teksuni]

He would NEVER kidnap his daughter.



He would, however, place her in "protective custody".

[GmanFresh]

yeah i got a power hungry vibe from her. plus she had no more right to the throne. no kids with calian.. its all about the blood and allsitar had it. plus its good to have a friend as ruler... and him being a warden is a plus too

[menasure]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

He would NEVER kidnap his daughter.

He would, however, place her in "protective custody".

and would be very hesitant to mention such a fact when confronted with nobles. the dude knows it would make him look 'bad' even though he already named himself regent for 'some' reason instead of letting Anora rule and seems to be getting away with that.
though i don't really blame loghain for that because the funny part in the story is that Anora seems to make mistakes about who did what to her when it suits her needs to grab power herself which demonstrates that her own standard seems to be very questionable ... of course you do not get that much information during the first play through, it's something you discover by playing the options.

Modifié par menasure, 16 décembre 2009 - 07:57 .

[Kalfear]

LOL, I refuse to put Anora on throne outta principle now.



Ever since she backstabed me at the landmeet and said I was holding her captive at the Arls estate!



Lieing little sob, she is her fathers daughter! no doubt about that

[Vicious]

Anora only double crosses you if you work against her. ZOMG why would someone act against you when you act against them?!!? How dare they!!



Seriously morons skip the dialogue with her and then wonder why she does what she does. You aren't supposed to fight Ser Cauthrien, it's bar none the hardest fight in the game and BIOWARE's attempt to railroad the player, If you point out Anora to Ser Cauthrien you do exactly what Anora asked you NOT to do.



Then if you don't support her at the Landsmeet... well big surprise, she doesn't work with you because you aren't working with her.



Seriously.

[T0paze]

Nonsense.

If you don't support her at the Landsmeet, you are not doing anything dishonest. If you want, you can actually warn her in advance that you won't support.

However, if she doesn't get you support she doesn't just say that she doesn't support you. She basically frames you, lying through her teeth about how you're slandering the greatest general of Ferelden, effectively suggesting that you captured her in Howe's mansion (in light of Loghain's previous question). That's pretty low, and you'll need all your support at the Lansmeet to win the vote after this accusation.

Modifié par T0paze, 16 décembre 2009 - 08:20 .

[Adria Teksuni]

That's politics.

[T0paze]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

That's politics.

A very polite name for treachery, when it comes to Anora. In any case, in my game that politics didn't do her any good anyway.

Arl Eamon is a skilled politician, too, but we don't see him lying every time he opens his mouth. It really has more to do with the character than with the occupation, although the occupation isn't exactly the cleanliest one.

Modifié par T0paze, 16 décembre 2009 - 08:32 .

[Korva]

T0paze wrote...

If you don't support her at the Landsmeet, you are not doing anything dishonest. If you want, you can actually warn her in advance that you won't support.

However, if she doesn't get you support she doesn't just say that she doesn't support you. She basically frames you, lying through her teeth about how you're slandering the greatest general of Ferelden, effectively suggesting that you captured her in Howe's mansion (in light of Loghain's previous question). That's pretty low, and you'll need all your support at the Lansmeet to win the vote after this accusation.

Amen. For me, that too is the crux. I would actually have no problem with her if she did not stoop that low. She can believe all she wants that she is the best choice. She can badmouth Alistair -- though I do like him a lot, he is totally unproven in any sort of leadership position which is not a good thing for the monarch of a ravaged country. She can decide to butt heads with me and oppose my choices at every turn. I can respect that. I like strong opponents. But I cannot and will not respect (nor enthrone) such a dishonorable, lying sack of sh*t. Someone who acts like that isn't fit to be trusted with walking your dog, never mind ruling your country.

As for whether Ser Cauthrien's sudden appearance is a set-up, I'm really torn about that. I would like to say no, but the way it happens sure makes it look like it. It is just too damn convenient. Howe's blood isn't even dry on the floor yet, there simply is no way she could know about his death if she wasn't tipped off before you even killed him.

[Xandurpein]

Anora IS the reigning Queen of Ferelden. That is confirmed by David Gaider. Loghain is her regent and military leader of the country. By reason of what would today be called martial law or something, Loghain takes charge of the war effort, including the looming civil war. Anora's version is now that she begins to question her father and want to distance herself from him. That part of her story also agrees pretty much with all the cut scenes we see from Denerim, so I would like to see some strong evidence to suggest the opposite.

Arl Eamon comes up with the plan to call a Landsmeet to effectivly stage a coup and replace Anora with Alistair 
to remove Loghain's power base. But then comes Anora's maid and says the Queen no longer want to support Loghain, and that Howe has imprisoned her. Arl Eamon is still bent on having Alistair on the throne, because he wants to preserve Maric's blood, but he still sees a need to rescue her, to avoid being pinned with false accusations for her death. You save Anora and suddenly there are two possible solutions.

There is no longer a political reason to stage a coup against Anora. You can make deal with her and whatever others say, she will always keep her end of the deal if you keep your end. Arl Eamon however still wants to continue with the coup against Anora at the Landsmeet, because he always wanted Maric's blood on the throne.

Anora is convinced she is a good ruler, she IS the reigning Queen, and you have to launch what is more or less a coup to replace her. If you do endorse Arl Eamon's coup, yes she will lie about you and hope she gets a better deal from her father, but don't for a moment kid yourself you didn't begin it by joining a coup against her.

/Edit: You can also as a third option propose the "best for Ferelden" solution, that Alistair marries Anora, which defuses the whole problem as there is no coup, and no end of Maric's bloodline. This is definitly the politically best solution for everyone to accept, unless of course the player has his own agenda in regards Alistair or Anora.

As for all the conspiracy theorists who thinks she somehow engineered her rescue to kill you, I hope to see a shred of evidence supporting the theory. A lot of people have made a big deal of the fact that she will claim you abducted her if you reveal her to Ser Cautherian, but you miss the point. She just told you NOT to reveal her identity to Loghains men under any circumstance, and right away you do it anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks you are just about to betray her.

Then again a true fan of conspiracy theories always find evidence. Isn't the very fact that there is no evidence at all, proof of a cover up...

Modifié par Xandurpein, 16 décembre 2009 - 08:51 .

[Korva]

The "proof" is how Cauthrien appears at just the right moment in just the right place knowing exactly what happened mere moments ago. That simply is not possible without a set-up.

I don't like the idea of it being a set-up. I think it's stupid, and story-wise makes less sense than it being a genuine rescue mission. But it's very hard to ignore the utter "What the hell?!" factor of Cauthrien popping up there as soon as you let Anora out. I would rather have her showing up on Eamon's doorstep later and demanding for the Warden to be handed over for the "murder" of Howe.

Modifié par Korva, 16 décembre 2009 - 08:53 .

[Xandurpein]

Korva wrote...

As for whether Ser Cauthrien's sudden appearance is a set-up, I'm really torn about that. I would like to say no, but the way it happens sure makes it look like it. It is just too damn convenient. Howe's blood isn't even dry on the floor yet, there simply is no way she could know about his death if she wasn't tipped off before you even killed him.

Try looking at it from the other side. If it all WAS a set-up, why on earth does she go directly to Arl Eamons estate, when you go to prison.

It's game, remember. If you question every "convenient" appearnce in the game you are bound to see conspiracy theories everywhere. Isn't it very convenient the way dog finds you. hmmm...