242 réponses à ce sujet

[Omnifarious Nef]

Zero132132 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

God it's not even out yet and you're already complaining?

Every information relevant regarding the things I stated here are out. I am arguing substantiated. If you have a problem with that, sue me.


This is an earnest appeal to BioWare. I am voicing my opinion. I am being civil, I give reasons and a framework on how to percieve my arguments. That's how valid criticism looks like. Do not throw me into the same pot as those "nerf this" and alike people.

But you're still criticizing content that no one ever HAS yet. It's still silly. You're also arguing on a strictly superficial level; that these characters don't look cool enough is basically what it boils down to.

No, no, no, it's not that at all! These are merely reused assests colored differently. Not new models. I mean, come on, Kai leng with a helmet, Kasumi with a Nemesis mask... Need I go on? That's what he is concerned about. Next we'll have a white Avenger and it'll be called the Revenger... Wait...

[ntrisley]

landylan wrote...

The reason those weapons look the same is because they're for the same species. Krysae and Phaeston are both Turian design. The new pistol is Asari. Giving weapons developed by certain species their own look is a very good idea imo. I also think the new characters look very unique. The soldier and infiltrator are the only copies. I'm excited about the Terminus Armor returning from ME2...I'm more excited about playing as a phantom.

Terminus armor is in the ME3 campaign. You buy it from a vendor on the Citadel, Batarian State Arms.

I don't know why you're saying "the Soldier and Infiltrator are the only copies" by the way.
The Adept is, quite bluntly, Kasumi Goto with a helmet under the hood.

[TheWout]

Actually, i think the posts that pop up that are filled with "concerns" and "complaints" are most likely from a younger generation, that have been raised in a PRAISE ALL THE THINGS setting and are used to being catered to 24/7, while the older generation is more like. Oh Please, in MY day....

[Zero132132]

[quote]Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I am criticising the art designs, yes. And we already have the art designs. It doesn't matter if I see them in my game or in screenshots. Suggesting my opinion is unsubstantiated because of that is nonsense.

Also, "coolness" and quality standards are not one and the same. Stop putting words in my mouth.[/quote]
[/quote]
What's the difference? You're complaining because the character design doesn't fit some arbitrary standard you've set. Isn't that pretty much exactly what "cool" means to a given person? The degree to which it adheres to an arbitrary standard of judgement?

If the characters all play the exact same as ones we have, and the moves aren't unique or new, then you'd be right to be pissed about 'creativity,' but you're whining because the skins don't look new and shiny enough rather than talking about anything substantive. Creativity isn't the same as making things look new and shiny. If the moves are unique, but can actually fit in certain playstyles that are already there, that's way more of a feat than wasting time and resources trying to create a super-cool new outfit.

Can you at least update the thread title to be honest? You're criticizing one VERY specific aspect of creativity; the art direction. Can you at least say that you're criticizing the skins for not being unique enough for you, rather than any aspect of the gameplay?

Modifié par Zero132132, 11 juillet 2012 - 05:47 .

[Omnifarious Nef]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

OP I welcome you showing us what real art standards on these characters would look like so we can get your opinion.
Please keep it realistic .
[I'm serious]

Until you show us what new DLC characters should look like (and they should preferably be your work, I don't think you have a valid argument against the art.
You have an opinion yes, but the argument that is is sub par is invalid until you show otherwise.
aka pics or gtfo

What, do I have to study art/game design and be a designer/developer myself now to express what I think?

If they want to give us re-used assets I am perfectly fine with that. All I ask is that they should not be recongnized on first glance as reskins.
I know I am trapped by my own disposition and standards, but all I see when looking at those pictures is reskins. I don't see awesome looks (I can enjoy them on an aesthetic level, sure) I just see reskins. That's what I am criticizing and that is valid without any further proof on my own skills.

What did I just get done saying in my last post? Have a concern? You just got the, "You do better" and "GFTO" responses I just mentioned. He did not see the point you were making. It's not the art design, it's the fact these are reused assets. And not different/new models.

[Bwgmon]

ntrisley wrote...

landylan wrote...

The reason those weapons look the same is because they're for the same species. Krysae and Phaeston are both Turian design. The new pistol is Asari. Giving weapons developed by certain species their own look is a very good idea imo. I also think the new characters look very unique. The soldier and infiltrator are the only copies. I'm excited about the Terminus Armor returning from ME2...I'm more excited about playing as a phantom.

Terminus armor is in the ME3 campaign. You buy it from a vendor on the Citadel, Batarian State Arms.

I don't know why you're saying "the Soldier and Infiltrator are the only copies" by the way.
The Adept is, quite bluntly, Kasumi Goto with a helmet under the hood.

To be fair, all the Drell are Thane, FemQuarians are Tali minus the hood pattern, and all the Male/Female humans are Shepard wearing a helmet.

[Aethyl]

Bwgmon wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

landylan wrote...

The reason those weapons look the same is because they're for the same species. Krysae and Phaeston are both Turian design. The new pistol is Asari. Giving weapons developed by certain species their own look is a very good idea imo. I also think the new characters look very unique. The soldier and infiltrator are the only copies. I'm excited about the Terminus Armor returning from ME2...I'm more excited about playing as a phantom.

Terminus armor is in the ME3 campaign. You buy it from a vendor on the Citadel, Batarian State Arms.

I don't know why you're saying "the Soldier and Infiltrator are the only copies" by the way.
The Adept is, quite bluntly, Kasumi Goto with a helmet under the hood.

To be fair, all the Drell are Thane, FemQuarians are Tali minus the hood pattern, and all the Male/Female humans are Shepard wearing a helmet.

Actually, FemQuarians aren't Tali, but more regular quarians. Just look at dose hips.

[ntrisley]

Personally, speaking for myself and not the OP, I would be far happier if the Shadow were not a melee character and reskin of the Phantom. I play an Infiltrator to set up ambushes and revive teammates, not run around ganking goons with swords.
I would be far happier if we were not getting a "not-Kai Leng" in a helmet for the Fury and another melee character for the Vanguard.
I would be far happier if the Adept was not a helmeted "not-Kasumi Goto".
The Destroyer being a reskinned Terminus Armor isn't horrible for me, but I would have preferred something else.

There's concept art, which I've linked before and am linking again, which would work far better.

For myself, I would have preferred the following:
Shadow to use the #7 armor variant.
Destroyer to use the #5 armor variant.
Fury to use the #3 or #4 variant.
Adept to use the #8 variant.

[Mgamerz]

So you're unhappy they're using the same 3D model is what you are saying.

[ntrisley]

Mgamerz wrote...

So you're unhappy they're using the same 3D model is what you are saying.

No.

What I'm saying is I'm unhappy that with a themed release, that of Alliance Special Forces, they're using models which make absolutely no bloody sense and adding two classes which do the same.

The N7 program is not Cerberus. There's no reason, at all, for us to get "Alliance Ninjas".
It's fanpandering, and I dislike it because it seems to be nothing more than capitulation to the same outcries which introduced an explosive sniper rifle.

[NCRZombie]

Shut up and enjoy your (free) fun.

[Star fury]

Mgamerz wrote...
Until you show us what new DLC characters should look like (and they should preferably be your work, I don't think you have a valid argument against the art.
You have an opinion yes, but the argument that is is sub par is invalid until you show otherwise.
aka pics or gtfo

"I never realised that in order to become a jockey you have to have been a horse first."©

[LGear]

ntrisley wrote...

The N7 program is not Cerberus. There's no reason, at all, for us to get "Alliance Ninjas".

It's all a matter of perspective. One can argue that perhaps, it's the other way around: that Cerberus got their ideas from the hardcore N7 program. It actually makes Cerberus' materiels acquisition more logical, since it means they're merely redeveloping and expanding on concepts that the Alliance already had in motion. 

[Deucetipher]

I think it's part of the way they keep it free, you know? I'd rather have more DLC, even if some of the innovation is lost.

[ntrisley]

LGear wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

The N7 program is not Cerberus. There's no reason, at all, for us to get "Alliance Ninjas".

It's all a matter of perspective. One can argue that perhaps, it's the other way around: that Cerberus got their ideas from the hardcore N7 program. It actually makes Cerberus' materiels acquisition more logical, since it means they're merely redeveloping and expanding on concepts that the Alliance already had in motion.

I had considered that.

But the problem is that Cerberus actually owns and operates their own manufacturing capabilities, design capabilities, etc. Heck, the Harrier is proof of that. They took a gun which the Alliance deemed "obsolete" and stopped ordering for production--essentially relegating it to backwater worlds and underfunded militias--then their armorers tinkered with it for awhile and produced something which makes the Avenger look horrible.

The Alliance actually has had to step up their research and development protocols to keep pace with Cerberus, not the other way around. The Valkyrie and Argus are evidence of that, with the Valkyrie just now entering widespread service.

[Zero132132]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

What's the difference? You're complaining because the character design doesn't fit some arbitrary standard you've set. Isn't that pretty much exactly what "cool" means to a given person? The degree to which it adheres to an arbitrary standard of judgement?

If the characters all play the exact same as ones we have, and the moves aren't unique or new, then you'd be right to be pissed about 'creativity,' but you're whining because the skins don't look new and shiny enough rather than talking about anything substantive. Creativity isn't the same as making things look new and shiny. If the moves are unique, but can actually fit in certain playstyles that are already there, that's way more of a feat than wasting time and resources trying to create a super-cool new outfit.

Can you at least update the thread title to be honest? You're criticizing one VERY specific aspect of creativity; the art direction. Can you at least say that you're criticizing the skins for not being unique enough for you, rather than any aspect of the gameplay?

First, I would call arbitrary standards I base opinions on the same thing as the consept of something being "cool". In my opinion, that word is being used inflationary and has gotten whole other meaning that what it meant originally (a state of clarity in mind, being cool under stressful influence). That however is another discussion we could have, though not in here. I agree what you mean by that applies to me.

Also, I'm going to edit the topic title.

Yeah, I guess there's no real reason to argue about what 'cool' means. Thanks for changing the thread title. Creativity, to me, means new, interesting skills. I can see where you're coming from with the art design stuff, just got annoyed that people were already complaining about DLC that isn't out for 6 days.

[Clayless]

"Free content"

Complain about the look of it.

[Captain_Crouton]

 ITT: Complaining about free things

[ntrisley]

Zero132132 wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Zero132132 wrote...

What's the difference? You're complaining because the character design doesn't fit some arbitrary standard you've set. Isn't that pretty much exactly what "cool" means to a given person? The degree to which it adheres to an arbitrary standard of judgement?

If the characters all play the exact same as ones we have, and the moves aren't unique or new, then you'd be right to be pissed about 'creativity,' but you're whining because the skins don't look new and shiny enough rather than talking about anything substantive. Creativity isn't the same as making things look new and shiny. If the moves are unique, but can actually fit in certain playstyles that are already there, that's way more of a feat than wasting time and resources trying to create a super-cool new outfit.

Can you at least update the thread title to be honest? You're criticizing one VERY specific aspect of creativity; the art direction. Can you at least say that you're criticizing the skins for not being unique enough for you, rather than any aspect of the gameplay?

First, I would call arbitrary standards I base opinions on the same thing as the consept of something being "cool". In my opinion, that word is being used inflationary and has gotten whole other meaning that what it meant originally (a state of clarity in mind, being cool under stressful influence). That however is another discussion we could have, though not in here. I agree what you mean by that applies to me.

Also, I'm going to edit the topic title.

Yeah, I guess there's no real reason to argue about what 'cool' means. Thanks for changing the thread title. Creativity, to me, means new, interesting skills. I can see where you're coming from with the art design stuff, just got annoyed that people were already complaining about DLC that isn't out for 6 days.

To be fair, he hasn't really complained about the stats or powers.

I've done that a bit, and I won't apologize for it!

Down with the Shadow and Fury!
Up with the Vigilant and Vendetta!

[landylan]

ntrisley wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

So you're unhappy they're using the same 3D model is what you are saying.

No.

What I'm saying is I'm unhappy that with a themed release, that of Alliance Special Forces, they're using models which make absolutely no bloody sense and adding two classes which do the same.

The N7 program is not Cerberus. There's no reason, at all, for us to get "Alliance Ninjas".
It's fanpandering, and I dislike it because it seems to be nothing more than capitulation to the same outcries which introduced an explosive sniper rifle.

I thought Mgamerz was talking to Neofelis?

People have been wanting characters like these for awhile. They are all unique... the pictures you put up aren't even as cool in appearance as the new DLC characters are.

There is nothing stopping the Alliance from using cerberus technology.

What's wrong with Bioware actually listening to it's fanbase???

[Cypher61]

TheWout wrote...

Actually, i think the posts that pop up that are filled with "concerns" and "complaints" are most likely from a younger generation, that have been raised in a PRAISE ALL THE THINGS setting and are used to being catered to 24/7, while the older generation is more like. Oh Please, in MY day....

I totally agree with you.

I respect the OP's comments, he has the absolute right to make them. But i have to disagree with his statements.

If Bioware were to create new models for every DLC, it would cost.  And I guarentee if people had to pay for multiplayer DLC, there would be people complaining about it, so damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[BeardyMcGoo]

Cyonan wrote...
I also play League of Legends

I'm sorry.