242 réponses à ce sujet

[Zero132132]

Even cosmetically, though, thinking it over, won't having moves with substantially different animations actually be an art design thing as well? I still think you're criticizing only part of what's going to be included, and we can't really see the other part yet. Not until we at least get some video previews and ****.

[Alexarrolt]

NCRZombie wrote...

Shut up and enjoy your (free) fun.

 This^_^

[saxybeast418]

NCRZombie wrote...

Shut up and enjoy your (free) fun.

Not helpful.

To OP:

On the one hand, I'm with you. There's only so many times you can reuse a given art or gameplay asset before it starts to feel stale and players lose interest.

This goes deeper than just the character or weapon design. This whole game is starting to feel repetitive. With only one game type (no, new modes don't count, although new objectives are very helpful), and 3 enemy factions, I cannot imagine new maps, guns, and kits satisfying the player base forever. Granted, maybe I'm just projecting my own feelings on everyone else, so I could be way off, but I'm itching for something more substantial than "New mode: Enemies just have moar health and do moar damage have fun!!!" You can give every enemy health bars that go to the moon and back, and it still wouldn't qualify as new content.

But on the other hand, Bioware is really quite screwed here. I don't think that a ton of money was set aside for the multiplayer mode. I mean, how could it? It was a risky gamble, and between TOR, Dragon Age 3, and finishing the Grand Finale of the Mass Effect trilogy, there simply weren't enough resources to flesh out this weird experiment into a robust multiplayer that could hold a large audience and bring in the monies.

As a result, this whole thing is hamstrung by a very limited scope and focus; these limits helped make this whole venture possible, but are now undermining its growth and longevity. As PVP is completely unaccounted for in the game design, Bioware is basically limited to AI opponents. New enemy types, game modes, missions, etc. require all sorts of resources and development, with no guaranteed return, since the longevity of this game is still an open question.
=================================================================================

tl;dr While it sucks that they have to recycle so much stuff, Bioware is barely keeping up with EA's business model of maintaining constant streams of content and revenue. They really have no other choice.

Modifié par saxybeast418, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:18 .

[justinblac]

I'll take reskins on free DLC, thank you very much. Besides, I'm much more interested in new powers than something that looks new. I think they look cool anyway.

[WARMACHINE9]

Looks fine to me. As long as it plays fine I'm ok. Also on the Vorcha they don't wear armour because they don't need it. BW was keeping true to canon, vorcha "learn" by being exposed to things, Damage, Low Grav,etc. So Thats probably why they didn't give them more armour. It wouldn't make sense.

[Stabby Badger]

I think they look okay. There is definitely some recycled work there for sure, but I for one won't mind being able to play as Kasumi or the Phantom. Kasumi was my favorite character from ME2 and I will probably play her biotic clone almost exclusively as soon as I unlock it.

I can see why some people might be disappointed though.

[ntrisley]

landylan wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Mgamerz wrote...

So you're unhappy they're using the same 3D model is what you are saying.

No.

What I'm saying is I'm unhappy that with a themed release, that of Alliance Special Forces, they're using models which make absolutely no bloody sense and adding two classes which do the same.

The N7 program is not Cerberus. There's no reason, at all, for us to get "Alliance Ninjas".
It's fanpandering, and I dislike it because it seems to be nothing more than capitulation to the same outcries which introduced an explosive sniper rifle.

I thought Mgamerz was talking to Neofelis?

People have been wanting characters like these for awhile. They are all unique... the pictures you put up aren't even as cool in appearance as the new DLC characters are.

You missed my point.

This is a themed release. It's Alliance Special Forces. It makes absolutely no sense for a military organization, even for the loosely regulated and extreme latitudes given to current Special Forces units, to have such deviations as sword wielding ninjas wearing space kilts and people wearing the same gear as notorious thieves.

You like the appearances of the DLC characters.
That's fine. I don't think they're appropriate for this upcoming pack. If this were a release of more ex-Cerberus characters? I'd be okay with it.
As it stands though--they stick out like if we were to get a DLC themed around Palaven and received a Hanar Ninja and Drell Priest.

There is nothing stopping the Alliance from using cerberus technology.

Other than the fact that Cerberus doesn't share technology with the Alliance.
And that in order to actually have the Phantoms and Kai Leng be as effective as they are, they had to be implanted with Reaper based technology.

What's wrong with Bioware actually listening to it's fanbase???

Somehow, I just knew someone would say this...

There's a difference between "listening to your fanbase" and "pandering to a vocal minority".
It is the difference between doing something like the Extended Cut and releasing a character of the "Nemesis Defector" based upon the fanart that keeps floating around.

"Alliance Phantoms" are something which a small number of people kept demanding. I've very much hated the idea, and I still do, because it makes absolutely no sense.
If they had released a character Drell with these skill sets? I'd have been fine with it.
If they had released Cerberus defectors with these skill sets and appearances? Fine with it!

But as it stands, they stick out like a sore thumb.

[Shpoon]

Personally, I find it difficult to criticise something I have not played yet, not until I've seen it up close & personal. You can't judge it on just a few snapshots. Also, it is free. So even it does not tickle your fancy then you're not out of pocket.

[LGear]

ntrisley wrote...

I had considered that.

But the problem is that Cerberus actually owns and operates their own manufacturing capabilities, design capabilities, etc. Heck, the Harrier is proof of that. They took a gun which the Alliance deemed "obsolete" and stopped ordering for production--essentially relegating it to backwater worlds and underfunded militias--then their armorers tinkered with it for awhile and produced something which makes the Avenger look horrible.

The Alliance actually has had to step up their research and development protocols to keep pace with Cerberus, not the other way around. The Valkyrie and Argus are evidence of that, with the Valkyrie just now entering widespread service.

And yet the Harrier is not a weapon common among Cerberus troops, while the "outdated" Mattock is. And if you notice, Cerberus Engineers use Phalanxes as their default weapon, and said weapon is of Alliance design developed as part of the Alliance Offensive Handgun Project. I also don't get the impression of the Valkyrie and the Argus being developed in response to Cerberus - the Valkyrie was developed in response to the Battle of the Citadel, aka the Geth/Sovereign invasion three years prior, and the Argus is a law-enforcement rifle. Both weapons have no stated ties to Cerberus response whatsoever.  Hell, one can argue that the N7 weapons (Valkyrie, Hurricane, Crusader, Eagle, Valiant) going by their descriptions alone are superior to the weapons used by Cerberus, gameplay balance aside. 

In fact, there appear to be cases where Cerberus and Alliance armors have shared designs before : Kaidan's From Ashes' alternate design is essentially the Cerberus Trooper's armor, and the Cerberus Combat Engineer's armors are modified versions of the standard alternate appearance outfits used by Kaidan and James. Also the Phantom's armor are modified versions of those used by the From Ashes' outfits used by Liara and Ashley. And all are well before the Earth DLC. 

It's not like the concept of technology inspiration is a one-way street: The Alliance can get ideas from Cerberus, and Cerberus can get ideas from the Alliance. 

Modifié par LGear, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:28 .

[xZBx]

I dont give a damn, I just want that Phantom.

[Alexarrolt]

saxybeast418 wrote...

NCRZombie wrote...

Shut up and enjoy your (free) fun.

Not helpful.

Really.Most 3D skins made in singleplayer are re-used in multiplayer(apart from a few exceptions).You all really need to cut bioware some slack everything they do for you guys isnt good enough sometimes things happen that you dont like and you have to just deal with it.Alot of people enjoy the concept of this DLC and Bioware cant just throw away their hard work because a small majority doesnt like it.They put their time in this they could be out doing other things and not make DLC just leaving the game as it was shipped but they are making DLC admittedly the 3D models are the re used but they have to take their time making new annimations for powers and new maps and creating maps is quite hard.At the same time they have to make DLC for singleplayer .smooth out glitches. run compatibility tests and this is just the mass effect side of Bioware give them a chance they have worked hard on everything.

Modifié par Alexarrolt, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:35 .

[Rajalia]

I'd certainly like to see a replacement of the current Tali image used as the picture. That'd be a relatively simple patch update to replace the current stock photo used with something more original. Just include the new image and a redirect script to use a different image/model reference for the picture frame itself.

[WARMACHINE9]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

WARMACHINE9 wrote...

Looks fine to me. As long as it plays fine I'm ok. Also on the Vorcha they don't wear armour because they don't need it. BW was keeping true to canon, vorcha "learn" by being exposed to things, Damage, Low Grav,etc. So Thats probably why they didn't give them more armour. It wouldn't make sense.

I would argue that being exposed to bullets doesn't make you bulletproof, hence some type of armor would be most suitable for them. I'd rather have though most Vorcha didn't use them because they couldn't afford decent ones themselfes. Would seem less a stretch to me, just saying.

I understand your POV but That's what it says in the mythology, They would hurt their own young to make them tougher, and in the case of vorcha taking bullets it actually does equate to I don't kn ow thicker skin or armour plates that do help protect them from bullets. Not bullet proof but bullet resistant in the same way armour is.  But the can't afford it srgument works for me too. They are vorcha aftwer all.

[ntrisley]

LGear wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

I had considered that.

But the problem is that Cerberus actually owns and operates their own manufacturing capabilities, design capabilities, etc. Heck, the Harrier is proof of that. They took a gun which the Alliance deemed "obsolete" and stopped ordering for production--essentially relegating it to backwater worlds and underfunded militias--then their armorers tinkered with it for awhile and produced something which makes the Avenger look horrible.

The Alliance actually has had to step up their research and development protocols to keep pace with Cerberus, not the other way around. The Valkyrie and Argus are evidence of that, with the Valkyrie just now entering widespread service.

And yet the Harrier is not a weapon common among Cerberus troops, while the "outdated" Mattock is.

Which is partially my point.
Mattocks are no longer manufactured. In ME2, The Ilusive Man actually sends you an email saying that Cerberus is going to begin producing the Mattock in large numbers for Cerberus forces based upon your "trial run" of a "modified variant".

And if you notice, Cerberus Engineers use Phalanxes as their default weapon, and said weapon is of Alliance design developed as part of the Alliance Offensive Handgun Project.

Which we don't have an exact timeline on.
Consider that the Eagle is the Alliance already trying to step up something to beat the Phalanx.

I also don't get the impression of the Valkyrie and the Argus being developed in response to Cerberus - the Valkyrie was developed in response to the Battle of the Citadel, aka the Geth/Sovereign invasion three years prior, and the Argus is a law-enforcement rifle. Both weapons have no stated ties to Cerberus response whatsoever.

The timeframe of the Valkyrie coming into full-scale production and usage coincides with Cerberus becoming a large threat, after Shepard has left.

Hell, one can argue that the N7 weapons (Valkyrie, Hurricane, Crusader, Eagle, Valiant) going by their descriptions alone are superior to the weapons used by Cerberus, gameplay balance aside.

And aside from the Valkyrie, none are in full scale production or distribution.

Because the Alliance does not own the production or distribution capabilities to effectively get them out there. That is, supposedly, why they are designated as "Ultra Rares" in MP.

In fact, there appear to be cases where Cerberus and Alliance armors have shared designs before : Kaidan's From Ashes' alternate design is essentially the Cerberus Trooper's armor, and the Cerberus Combat Engineer's armors are modified versions of the standard alternate appearance outfits used by Kaidan and James. Also the Phantom's armor are modified versions of those used by the From Ashes' outfits used by Liara and Ashley. And all are well before the Earth DLC.

That was more of a conscious choice though. "From Ashes" is supposed to be a heavily Cerberus themed piece of DLC. I'm sure if the Reapers or Geth had been the antagonists, we would not have had the same armor.

The alternate appearance outfits used by Kaidan and James, by the by, are those which are used by the Alliance Marines...which are a major military force and numerous enough that it's downright impossible for someone within the Mass Effect universe to not know how they look.

It's not like the concept of technology inspiration is a one-way street: The Alliance can get ideas from Cerberus, and Cerberus can get ideas from the Alliance. 

Certainly.
However, as I mentioned, Cerberus does things the Alliance does not.
We do not have "Indoctrinated" forces among the Alliance in anything aside from a psychological sense.
We do not have things like the facility on Pragia.

[Alexarrolt]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Calm down. I'm not asking to get money back, have people fired or anything, I am giving criticism. Not positive one, sure, but it is honest criticism. They can read it and then decide what to make of it. The devs have always stressed the helpfulness of criticism, now I am giving them some.

I understand constructive critisium but the DLC is not even out yet you cannot judge a book by its cover.The DLC might even be subject to chance.
Angry? I dont get angry I just get argumentative.

[The Waffle Cat]

Be grateful, you scumbag. This is the best dlc up to date

[ntrisley]

Alexarrolt wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Calm down. I'm not asking to get money back, have people fired or anything, I am giving criticism. Not positive one, sure, but it is honest criticism. They can read it and then decide what to make of it. The devs have always stressed the helpfulness of criticism, now I am giving them some.

I understand constructive critisium but the DLC is not even out yet you cannot judge a book by its cover.The DLC might even be subject to chance.
Angry? I dont get angry I just get argumentative.

In this case, you can actually judge a book by its cover.

Because you're judging the cover.

[Core_Commander]

It's supposed to be top-of-the-line human military gear.

Cerberus used to be affiliated with the human military. Makes sense that they would use the same top-of-the-line gear. It also makes sense that Kasumi would be using military-grade hardware. Kaidan (lightweight Alliance agent) is using a similar armor as the Cerberus engineer (lightweight Cerberus agent) and N7 Demolisher... because they were probably manufactured at the same company under a military contract.

In ME1 and 2 people were using same armor as well. It only makes sense that good stuff would be widely in use. And now people are complaining "WE WANT NEW MODELS". Sigh. Bioware isn't that lazy, we got some unique models (kishock, GPSMG, many power animations). Yet now that human characters have the distinct "human military" look, and it makes sense, there are complaints.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:45 .

[Stabby Badger]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

I would argue that being exposed to bullets doesn't make you bulletproof, hence some type of armor would be most suitable for them. I'd rather have though most Vorcha didn't use them because they couldn't afford decent ones themselfes. Would seem less a stretch to me, just saying.

That's probably close to the truth.  I don't remember for sure, but I seem to remember ME2 stating that vorcha typically do not live past 20 and also have great difficulty finding employment outside of krogan mercenary bands.  They're viewed as vermin by most, so would certainly be seen as expendable.  Combined with their violent and crude nature, I'd say we're probably lucky the vorcha bother to wear anything at all.  

[ntrisley]

Core_Commander wrote...

It's supposed to be top-of-the-line human military gear.

Cerberus used to be affiliated with the human military. Makes sense that they would use the same top-of-the-line gear. It also makes sense that Kasumi would be using military-grade hardware.

In ME1 and 2 people were using same armor as well. It only makes sense that good stuff would be widely in use. And now people are complaining "WE WANT NEW MODELS". Sigh.

"Top of the line human military gear" is that which Shepard wears is depicted as wearing from the very start just as a note.

They painted themselves, effectively, into a corner by using the various 'stock' armor permutations from single player I think.

Also:
Cerberus uses custom gear. They manufacture it themselves. Any examples of it used by Alliance forces is captured gear, not bought off the shelf.

Modifié par ntrisley, 11 juillet 2012 - 06:45 .