242 réponses à ce sujet

[ntrisley]

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

The problem is that, again, it's Alliance Phantoms.

That's dumb. Put them in another ex-Cerberus pack or something, don't just throw them into the N7 pack.

Why does it make sense for Cerebrus to have Sword users, but for the Alliance not to? 

For the same reason human special forces using armor that somewhat resembles established armor patterns is a bad thing: NERD RAGE.

Not so much NERD RAGE as NERD ANNOYANCE. 

I feel the same way whenever I see people with flourescently colored characters, mind you.

[Atheosis]

ntrisley wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

The problem is that, again, it's Alliance Phantoms.

That's dumb. Put them in another ex-Cerberus pack or something, don't just throw them into the N7 pack.

Why does it make sense for Cerebrus to have Sword users, but for the Alliance not to? 

Honestly?

Because Cerberus doesn't necessarily work off common sense.
The organization is run by a madman who thinks he's "in the right".
It's subject to no oversight, he's indoctrinated his personnel, and what's more he seems to be an egomaniacal dictator.

I can't imagine any government with sensible military advisors saying "Hey, let's have a cadre of ninjas!", can you?

If it was determined to be effective in combat and relatively affordable, I actually can. 

[Tal_Elmar]

God, this thread is full of raging fanboyism. I haven't been on BSN for long, and it seems that 'stop whining' is the favorite reply here, regardless of what it's directed at.

I, for one, mostly agree with OP. I'm ok with guns designs, but 'Kasumi' and especially the Phantom-KaiLeng team rub me the wrong way. Esp considering they are Alliance soldiers, not more operatives from Phoenix project.
For me ME-Universe is still story and lore-centered universe, even if BW are bringing in more casual gamers with mp features (not directed at anyone in particular, just my observation); so this lore-centered universe is being abandonned in favour of (IMO) a bit questionable design. To repeat what OP said: would an N7 soldier wear a thief jumpsuit? Would an N7 soldier wear pirate and mercenary armour from Terminus systems? And the short coat on 'Kai Leng' - does it have any functionality? While it's ok for a villain (Kai Leng himself) and ex-scientist (Liara), it looks plain simple on spec op fighter

Just my humble contribution; criticism doesn't mean I do not appreciate BW effort put into this DLC or that I wouldn't enjoy it

[Mgamerz]

I don't know, the phantom being able to instant kill me seems pretty effective.

[Atheosis]

ntrisley wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

The problem is that, again, it's Alliance Phantoms.

That's dumb. Put them in another ex-Cerberus pack or something, don't just throw them into the N7 pack.

Why does it make sense for Cerebrus to have Sword users, but for the Alliance not to? 

For the same reason human special forces using armor that somewhat resembles established armor patterns is a bad thing: NERD RAGE.

Not so much NERD RAGE as NERD ANNOYANCE. 

I feel the same way whenever I see people with flourescently colored characters, mind you.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I don't think for one second it's going to actually play like a Phantom.  It's going to run standing up and it's going to use a standard weapons rather than a palm gun.  The only Phantom-like elements will probably be sword-based melee attacks and some kind of acrobatic flip when dodging.

[MercenaryNo]

TheWout wrote...

Actually, i think the posts that pop up that are filled with "concerns" and "complaints" are most likely from a younger generation, that have been raised in a PRAISE ALL THE THINGS setting and are used to being catered to 24/7, while the older generation is more like. Oh Please, in MY day....

[Atheosis]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

God, this thread is full of raging fanboyism. I haven't been on BSN for long, and it seems that 'stop whining' is the favorite reply here, regardless of what it's directed at.

I, for one, mostly agree with OP. I'm ok with guns designs, but 'Kasumi' and especially the Phantom-KaiLeng team rub me the wrong way. Esp considering they are Alliance soldiers, not more operatives from Phoenix project.
For me ME-Universe is still story and lore-centered universe, even if BW are bringing in more casual gamers with mp features (not directed at anyone in particular, just my observation); so this lore-centered universe is being abandonned in favour of (IMO) a bit questionable design. To repeat what OP said: would an N7 soldier wear a thief jumpsuit? Would an N7 soldier wear pirate and mercenary armour from Terminus systems? And the short coat on 'Kai Leng' - does it have any functionality? While it's ok for a villain (Kai Leng himself) and ex-scientist (Liara), it looks plain simple on spec op fighter

Just my humble contribution; criticism doesn't mean I do not appreciate BW effort put into this DLC or that I wouldn't enjoy it

People whining about things they haven't even played yet, on a free DLC mind you, really deserve the 'stop whining' response.

[ntrisley]

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

The problem is that, again, it's Alliance Phantoms.

That's dumb. Put them in another ex-Cerberus pack or something, don't just throw them into the N7 pack.

Why does it make sense for Cerebrus to have Sword users, but for the Alliance not to? 

For the same reason human special forces using armor that somewhat resembles established armor patterns is a bad thing: NERD RAGE.

Not so much NERD RAGE as NERD ANNOYANCE. 

I feel the same way whenever I see people with flourescently colored characters, mind you.

I wouldn't worry about it too much.  I don't think for one second it's going to actually play like a Phantom.  It's going to run standing up and it's going to use a standard weapons rather than a palm gun.  The only Phantom-like elements will probably be sword-based melee attacks and some kind of acrobatic flip when dodging.

Oh I know it's not going to be exactly the same as a Phantom, but it still is irksome.

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

[landylan]

ntrisley wrote...

landylan wrote...
In desperate times, it makes sense to use whatever makes the soldier most effective. If you think swords don't make sense, why bring it up now? Cerberus doesn't have to share technology...I don't know if you realize this, but there was a lot of dead phantom bodies on the Citadel after the attempted council assassination. The only characters you apparently disagree with are the kasumi armored one and the phantom one. Both are entirely plausible, so I just don't see the problem. 

They are not catering to the needs of a vocal group. They are listening to ideas proposed by the community. Creating a phantom character is a genuinely good idea. We don't want characters that play the same as all the others.

And in case you did not read the Codex entries on Cerberus, the Alliance cannot make the Phantom hand cannons work.

It's Reaper tech, not Cerberus tech.

As for "why bring it up now?"
It's because prior to this there was no reason to bring it up.

There never, ever, ever should be a melee heavy character like the Shadow or Fury.
Those are the two I "really disagree with".
I feel the Adept is poor art direction, but I most definitively feel that the Shadow and Fury are the ones who should be held back and completely redesigned.

I don't care that "you don't want characters that play the same as all the others".
I care that the characters match their backgrounds.

Gameplay is not the only thing to consider.

Yea...There was a reason to bring it up. Just because it's used by the player doesn't mean it just suddenly stops making sense.

I'm pretty sure they don't even have handcannons...atleast according to the supposed powers list they don't. Even if the palm blasters are reaper technology, Cerberus would have modified them for use on phantoms....and they can still be used by the Alliance then. 

I can't really argue about the adept since you just don't like her appearance.... I can't understand why you think there should never be a melee heavy character though??? You don't even know what they are like, and you want them to be redesigned?

Personally, I feel that the characters match their backgrounds just fine. They are the deadliest soldiers in the alliance military even if their methods are unorthodox.

Since this is a multiplayer mode with no story, gameplay is the most important factor to consider. Lore is considered as well...none of these break lore. Using the equipment identical to other characters and enemies isn't a big deal. If you look at it realistically, they use that specific armor to gain a tactical advantage.

[Atheosis]

ntrisley wrote...

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

It would be fitting, sure, but I don't see any logical basis for saying it would be "more" fitting--humans can be acrobatic and deadly after all.  You seem to be confusing your personal preferences for some kind of objective truth.

[NCRZombie]

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

It would be fitting, sure, but I don't see any logical basis for saying it would be "more" fitting--humans can be acrobatic and deadly after all.  You seem to be confusing your personal preferences for some kind of objective truth.

Well you see how flexible and agile people who do gymnastics can be, and these are highly trained elites.

[uzivatel]

Mgamerz wrote...

Yes, you should. It's free, and you are entitled ZERO updates post purchase.

Well, I cant play the game I bought only few months ago. The patches are mandatory and - as long as I want to find a match - so are the DLCs.

But that was not the point.

[ntrisley]

landylan wrote...

[
Yea...There was a reason to bring it up. Just because it's used by the player doesn't mean it just suddenly stops making sense.

I mentioned it already.

Cerberus is subject to no oversight, and quite frankly...the Ilusive Man is a nutter. In true James Bond styled fashion, it's easy to imagine him coming up with the idea that "I need a cadre of ninjas!" one day and telling his scientists to start working on the problem.

And who are they to say no, he's a nutter and filthy rich.

I'm pretty sure they don't even have handcannons...at least according to the supposed powers list they don't. Even if the palm blasters are reaper technology, Cerberus would have modified them for use on phantoms....and they can still be used by the Alliance then.

The palm blasters are Reaper technology which was theoretically "gifted" to Cerberus.
The plans were set up in such a way that it only works on indoctrinated individuals.

I can't really argue about the adept since you just don't like her appearance.... I can't understand why you think there should never be a melee heavy character though??? You don't even know what they are like, and you want them to be redesigned?

Personally, I feel that the characters match their backgrounds just fine. They are the deadliest soldiers in the alliance military even if their methods are unorthodox.

There's a huge difference between "unorthodox methods" and "bwuh?" methods.

There's a reason that a British officer during World War II(I cannot, for the life of me remember his name) was considered absolutely insane for carrying a claymore and longbow into combat during the Normandy landings.

Since this is a multiplayer mode with no story, gameplay is the most important factor to consider. Lore is considered as well...none of these break lore. Using the equipment identical to other characters and enemies isn't a big deal. If you look at it realistically, they use that specific armor to gain a tactical advantage.

Actually it is kind of a big deal. The story does actually coincide with the multiplayer mode, and lore is cited by BioWare as the reason we've received the characters we have.

Even the Phoenix Defectors make sense, lorewise, as the events of ME: Infiltrator show.

That said, if we're going to look at it "realistically"...
You don't outfit your special forces, who likely are operating in a vacuum of your main forces, with the same equipment as enemy forces.

It results in accidental deaths which could easily have been avoided.

[Someone With Mass]

Well, at least the design for the female Engineer is new-ish.

[ntrisley]

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

It would be fitting, sure, but I don't see any logical basis for saying it would be "more" fitting--humans can be acrobatic and deadly after all.  You seem to be confusing your personal preferences for some kind of objective truth.

Not really.

The Drell train as assassins. Thane's behavior during his "duel" with Kai Leng is demonstrative of knowing how to effectively use a blade in combat, and had he actually possessed one we likely would have seen Kai Leng dead.

But that would have been boring!

[NCRZombie]

ntrisley wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

It would be fitting, sure, but I don't see any logical basis for saying it would be "more" fitting--humans can be acrobatic and deadly after all.  You seem to be confusing your personal preferences for some kind of objective truth.

Not really.

The Drell train as assassins. Thane's behavior during his "duel" with Kai Leng is demonstrative of knowing how to effectively use a blade in combat, and had he actually possessed one we likely would have seen Kai Leng dead.

But that would have been boring!

This kind of implies that humans can't train as assassins, or at least seems to imply they're completely unable to be as effective as a Drell is.

[keystpwned]

TheWout wrote...

Who cares about gun design anyway? How often do you look at your gun anyway?
I care about the sound a lot more actually

I hope the new maps have mirrors so I can admire myself in between waves.

[ntrisley]

NCRZombie wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

It would be fitting, sure, but I don't see any logical basis for saying it would be "more" fitting--humans can be acrobatic and deadly after all.  You seem to be confusing your personal preferences for some kind of objective truth.

Not really.

The Drell train as assassins. Thane's behavior during his "duel" with Kai Leng is demonstrative of knowing how to effectively use a blade in combat, and had he actually possessed one we likely would have seen Kai Leng dead.

But that would have been boring!

This kind of implies that humans can't train as assassins, or at least seems to imply they're completely unable to be as effective as a Drell is.

Not my intent.

I'm attempting to get across the point that there is a necessary training regimen which would be needed to train someone to actually effectively use a sword in combat.

Fencing would not really be a good example of that training, and it would have to be highly specialized training for a specific blade type as well(since all of the Shadows and Furies are wielding katanas for whatever reason).

[landylan]

ntrisley wrote...

landylan wrote...

[
Yea...There was a reason to bring it up. Just because it's used by the player doesn't mean it just suddenly stops making sense.

I mentioned it already.

Cerberus is subject to no oversight, and quite frankly...the Ilusive Man is a nutter. In true James Bond styled fashion, it's easy to imagine him coming up with the idea that "I need a cadre of ninjas!" one day and telling his scientists to start working on the problem.

And who are they to say no, he's a nutter and filthy rich.

I'm pretty sure they don't even have handcannons...at least according to the supposed powers list they don't. Even if the palm blasters are reaper technology, Cerberus would have modified them for use on phantoms....and they can still be used by the Alliance then.

The palm blasters are Reaper technology which was theoretically "gifted" to Cerberus.
The plans were set up in such a way that it only works on indoctrinated individuals.

I can't really argue about the adept since you just don't like her appearance.... I can't understand why you think there should never be a melee heavy character though??? You don't even know what they are like, and you want them to be redesigned?

Personally, I feel that the characters match their backgrounds just fine. They are the deadliest soldiers in the alliance military even if their methods are unorthodox.

There's a huge difference between "unorthodox methods" and "bwuh?" methods.

There's a reason that a British officer during World War II(I cannot, for the life of me remember his name) was considered absolutely insane for carrying a claymore and longbow into combat during the Normandy landings.

Since this is a multiplayer mode with no story, gameplay is the most important factor to consider. Lore is considered as well...none of these break lore. Using the equipment identical to other characters and enemies isn't a big deal. If you look at it realistically, they use that specific armor to gain a tactical advantage.

Actually it is kind of a big deal. The story does actually coincide with the multiplayer mode, and lore is cited by BioWare as the reason we've received the characters we have.

Even the Phoenix Defectors make sense, lorewise, as the events of ME: Infiltrator show.

That said, if we're going to look at it "realistically"...
You don't outfit your special forces, who likely are operating in a vacuum of your main forces, with the same equipment as enemy forces.

It results in accidental deaths which could easily have been avoided.

You mentioned at the most. You didn't have any reason for why Alliance can't have sword wielders....It's obvious that the only reason Cerberus should have them is because the Illusive man is crazy...makes sense. Afterall, why would the alliance want soldiers equally as deadly?

I would like to read about the palm cannons only working on idoctrinated people if you have a link or something. Kai Leng wasn't indoctrinated was he? I've not gotten into the lore of ME3 at all really....I still don't think that the Shadow class will have palm blasters, but it wouldn't be the same type if they did. I'm pretty sure the Alliance can make a gun that shoots out of the palm just saying. Modified technology again.

I bet that british officer didn't have shields, barriers, or the ability to biotic charge or turn invisible.

Last part doesn't make sense. I did just say lore was a small part of the multiplayer...and I just said that none of these things break lore. 

Realistically... These N7 soldiers would almost always be operating in small very coordinated groups. In a real life combat situation, you are always aware of your teammates positions...in real life they wouldn't be wearing Cerberus colors either.

[ntrisley]

Kai Leng was, indeed, indoctrinated.

The Phantoms are as deadly as they are not because of the fact that they have no concerns for their own safety or anything of that nature.
The N7 operatives, however, are actually relatively important.

[Core_Commander]

Knubbsal wrote...

I'd change two things:

- Something more N7 than a glowing skull mask for the adept. I can imagine Indiana Jones trying to steal her head from her neck.
- Give the engineer a different helmet, the current one has been used already. Kestrel helmet with a closed mouthpiece would look great.

Apart from that, the characters look unique enough for multiplayer. I like them.

You're right, man! "Glowing skull masks"? In my Mass Effect?! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!

What have they done with the art direction? What the hell are you thinking, Bioware?? Wh... wait... wait a minute...



Oh.

That's a variation of ME1 armor, by the way. Kaidan's wearing a mask like that on any planet with hostile conditions.

Modifié par Core_Commander, 11 juillet 2012 - 08:43 .

[Seneva]

The minute they start to charge for MP DLC's is the same minute I absolutely DEMAND a better cheat protection.

[Atheosis]

ntrisley wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

It would be fitting, sure, but I don't see any logical basis for saying it would be "more" fitting--humans can be acrobatic and deadly after all.  You seem to be confusing your personal preferences for some kind of objective truth.

Not really.

The Drell train as assassins. Thane's behavior during his "duel" with Kai Leng is demonstrative of knowing how to effectively use a blade in combat, and had he actually possessed one we likely would have seen Kai Leng dead.

But that would have been boring!

Thane is supposed to be one off deadliest assassins in the galaxy.  I don't have any idea why you think that applies to Drell in general.

And since you bring up Kai Leng, you should recall that he was a N7 operative.  It's kind of silly to think the guy started doing the ninja-assassin thing only after joining Cerberus.  Seems much more likely that that was already his skill set and that the Illusive Man equipped him in such a way as to enhance the skills for which he was originally recruited.  

[stinekandts]

How can the designers possibly change the overall theme and look of tech in the game for the charactors? It would only open the pandoras box to eventually stray too far, i believe. And then the "lore" freaks would be crying. Glad the OP has high standards, but I think a company like EA sure as hell has high standards too.

[ntrisley]

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Atheosis wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

It seems more fitting for a Drell character to have the skillsets of the Shadow and Fury, rather than an Alliance Special Forces.

It would be fitting, sure, but I don't see any logical basis for saying it would be "more" fitting--humans can be acrobatic and deadly after all.  You seem to be confusing your personal preferences for some kind of objective truth.

Not really.

The Drell train as assassins. Thane's behavior during his "duel" with Kai Leng is demonstrative of knowing how to effectively use a blade in combat, and had he actually possessed one we likely would have seen Kai Leng dead.

But that would have been boring!

Thane is supposed to be one off deadliest assassins in the galaxy.  I don't have any idea why you think that applies to Drell in general.

Because if you pay attention to what Thane says in ME2, he is not the only one who has been trained by the Hanar as an assassin.

Drell assassins are not exceedingly common, but neither are the Drell period.

And since you bring up Kai Leng, you should recall that he was a N7 operative.  It's kind of silly to think the guy started doing the ninja-assassin thing only after joining Cerberus.  Seems much more likely that that was already his skill set and that the Illusive Man equipped him in such a way as to enhance the skills for which he was originally recruited. 

And you just proved my point.

Kai Leng, if that was "his skill set" is not someone who was trained to be a ninja by the military.

This isn't Metal Gear Solid.