225 réponses à ce sujet

[MACharlie1]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, but Miranda doesn't have anyone else. At all, other than her sister.

Steve has friends, Miranda does not.

So yeah.

It's a symptom of a weak character when the writers really doesn't know what to do with them. It's the equivalent of killing off Padme-Pandabear via "losing the will to live" because her husband decided to kill a bunch of people and then had two kids...actually I think the latter might be worse but you get the idea. It's just bad writing for strong characters to suddenly lose the will and die. 

[Taboo]

And Miranda has suffered years of abuse, had a relationship she thought meant something.

The mental trauma would be tremendous.

[Taboo]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Yeah, but Miranda doesn't have anyone else. At all, other than her sister.

Steve has friends, Miranda does not.

So yeah.

It's a symptom of a weak character when the writers really doesn't know what to do with them. It's the equivalent of killing off Padme-Pandabear via "losing the will to live" because her husband decided to kill a bunch of people and then had two kids...actually I think the latter might be worse but you get the idea. It's just bad writing for strong characters to suddenly lose the will and die. 

She doesn't die in my game, ever, so this is a non issue.

[Beep Il]

ForThessia wrote...

my point is that for the me2 squaddies you diddnt need to talk to them repeatedly if you diddnt want to before their mission to gain their loyalty so the time it takes to gain their loyalty is the length of their mission 20-30 mins tops.
Cortez however requires you to speak to him repeatedly. but you need to wait for the plot to progress before you can speak to him again, therefore making the task of making him loyal much more tedious as it can be hours of play between the conversations 

It's part of an RPG to see people and surroundings evolve. Or would you rather head to Earth directly after Eden Prime? Besides, it's not tedious at all and if it is tedious, don't talk to him. It's that simple.

[shepskisaac]

S0me people have real issues lol.

[ForThessia]

Beep Il wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

my point is that for the me2 squaddies you diddnt need to talk to them repeatedly if you diddnt want to before their mission to gain their loyalty so the time it takes to gain their loyalty is the length of their mission 20-30 mins tops.
Cortez however requires you to speak to him repeatedly. but you need to wait for the plot to progress before you can speak to him again, therefore making the task of making him loyal much more tedious as it can be hours of play between the conversations 

It's part of an RPG to see people and surroundings evolve. Or would you rather head to Earth directly after Eden Prime? Besides, it's not tedious at all and if it is tedious, don't talk to him. It's that simple.

i know that but if you diddnt like someone in me2 you had to deal with them for 20 mins and you were done

in me3 cortez requires you to constantly talk to him for him to survive, taking much more time to focus on keeping him alive than a character you diddnt like in me2

[MACharlie1]

ForThessia wrote...

Beep Il wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

my point is that for the me2 squaddies you diddnt need to talk to them repeatedly if you diddnt want to before their mission to gain their loyalty so the time it takes to gain their loyalty is the length of their mission 20-30 mins tops.
Cortez however requires you to speak to him repeatedly. but you need to wait for the plot to progress before you can speak to him again, therefore making the task of making him loyal much more tedious as it can be hours of play between the conversations 

It's part of an RPG to see people and surroundings evolve. Or would you rather head to Earth directly after Eden Prime? Besides, it's not tedious at all and if it is tedious, don't talk to him. It's that simple.

i know that but if you diddnt like someone in me2 you had to deal with them for 20 mins and you were done

in me3 cortez requires you to constantly talk to him for him to survive, taking much more time to focus on keeping him alive than a character you diddnt like in me2

I fail to see the problem...

[Beep Il]

ForThessia wrote...

Beep Il wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

my point is that for the me2 squaddies you diddnt need to talk to them repeatedly if you diddnt want to before their mission to gain their loyalty so the time it takes to gain their loyalty is the length of their mission 20-30 mins tops.
Cortez however requires you to speak to him repeatedly. but you need to wait for the plot to progress before you can speak to him again, therefore making the task of making him loyal much more tedious as it can be hours of play between the conversations 

It's part of an RPG to see people and surroundings evolve. Or would you rather head to Earth directly after Eden Prime? Besides, it's not tedious at all and if it is tedious, don't talk to him. It's that simple.

i know that but if you diddnt like someone in me2 you had to deal with them for 20 mins and you were done

in me3 cortez requires you to constantly talk to him for him to survive, taking much more time to focus on keeping him alive than a character you diddnt like in me2

Is that so? You need to talk with Steve five times in order for him to survive. Let's compare him with Miranda(I like her). I needed to discuss about her loyalty mission. I needed to complete her loyalty mission so she has 99,99 % of survival rate in suicide mission. I needed to resolve the issue between her and Jack. She wanted to meet up in the Citadel three times and all three of those meetings made impact of her survival later in the game.
Isn't this a lot more tedious than talking with Steve five times? To each his own.

[LiquidGrape]

krukow wrote...

Steve has the retarded chimp Vega.

Ableism isn't cool.

As for the same sex romances in Mass Effect, it's a sticky business.
I have no real qualms with regards to Traynor and Cortez, the two of whom were probably some of the most likeable characters in the entire series, other than their being newly introduced characters.
It simply doesn't have the same heft as, say, Kaidan's same sex romance; in spite of it being a romantic arc which had been previously unsubstantiated.
- Heck, possibly even because of that.

FemShep, with the exception of Liara who is decidedly a gyno-character if not technically female*, was granted no such through-line.
Kelly may have been a romance which carried over between games, but the amount of content which recognises this liaison is virtually nonexistent.
This coupled with Allers arguably being nothing but an insubstantial fling would seem to suggest that while there is a numerically greater amount of romantic options for a queer FemShep, she is comparatively shafted (no pun intended) in terms of actual depth of content.

(*I thought the Liara romance in ME3 was very well-handled myself, but I don't think it is too much of a stretch to recognise that not everyone is entirely interested in and/or comfortable with the Asari.)

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:06 .

[Siansonea]

ForThessia wrote...

Beep Il wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

my point is that for the me2 squaddies you diddnt need to talk to them repeatedly if you diddnt want to before their mission to gain their loyalty so the time it takes to gain their loyalty is the length of their mission 20-30 mins tops.
Cortez however requires you to speak to him repeatedly. but you need to wait for the plot to progress before you can speak to him again, therefore making the task of making him loyal much more tedious as it can be hours of play between the conversations 

It's part of an RPG to see people and surroundings evolve. Or would you rather head to Earth directly after Eden Prime? Besides, it's not tedious at all and if it is tedious, don't talk to him. It's that simple.

i know that but if you diddnt like someone in me2 you had to deal with them for 20 mins and you were done

in me3 cortez requires you to constantly talk to him for him to survive, taking much more time to focus on keeping him alive than a character you diddnt like in me2

If it's not worth your time to talk to him, do you really care if he dies? 

[Zjarcal]

Siansonea II wrote...

But Kelly and Allers aren't really fully developed romances for either Shepard, they're hookups, nothing more.

Yeah, that's why you have a convo with Kelly about formalizing the relationship and then she says how she wishes the war was over so that they can finally be together for good.

Ugh... not being as rich in content doesn't mean the relationship is stricktly a hookup.

[Siansonea]

LiquidGrape wrote...

krukow wrote...

Steve has the retarded chimp Vega.

Ableism isn't cool.

As for the same sex romances in Mass Effect, it's a sticky business.
I have no real qualms with regards to Traynor and Cortez, both of whom were probably some of the most likeable characters in the entire series, other than their being newly introduced characters.
It simply doesn't have the same heft as, say, Kaidan's same sex romance; in spite of it being a romantic arc which had been previously unsubstantiated.
- Heck, possibly even because of that.

FemShep, with the exception of Liara who is decidedly a gyno-character if not technically female*, was granted no such through-line.
Kelly may have been a romance which carried over between games, but the amount of content which recognises this liaison is virtually nonexistent.
This, coupled with Allers arguably being nothing but an insubstantial fling, would seem to suggest that while there is a numerically greater amount of romantic options for a queer FemShep she is comparatively shafted (no pun intended) in terms of actual depth of content.

(*I thought the Liara romance in ME3 was very well-handled myself, but I don't think it is too much of a stretch to recognise that not everyone is entirely interested in and/or comfortable with the Asari.)

I agree. A well-developed asari romance is no substitute for a well-developed HUMAN f/f romance.

[Xilizhra]

I agree. A well-developed asari romance is no substitute for a well-developed HUMAN f/f romance.

Why precisely is this?

[Siansonea]

Zjarcal wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

But Kelly and Allers aren't really fully developed romances for either Shepard, they're hookups, nothing more.

Yeah, that's why you have a convo with Kelly about formalizing the relationship and then she says how she wishes the war was over so that they can finally be together for good.

Ugh... not being as rich in content doesn't mean the relationship is stricktly a hookup.

I have to admit, I never pursued anything with Kelly with any of my Sheps, they all had something cooking with another character. I probably don't have my facts straight (no pun intended) about Kelly.

[Sperizer]

Sorry but I will never count "flings" as real romances. The only full-on wrote "romances" are Samantha and Liara for females, and Kaiden and Cortez for males. Do you want to count Morinth for femshep too? Because that's just as ridiculous as Allers. Neither are genuine.

I understand Kelly, a little...but not Allers. That's just wrong. 

When it comes to fairness, I have to praise from the tallest mountain that we're really just *lucky* (says the homophobes) that these romances were even included at all. However... If I want to be nit picky and file a complaint.. it's that Sam didn't get a spot on the Citadel socializing that Shep does.

Modifié par Sperizer, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:09 .

[Xilizhra]

Siansonea II wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

But Kelly and Allers aren't really fully developed romances for either Shepard, they're hookups, nothing more.

Yeah, that's why you have a convo with Kelly about formalizing the relationship and then she says how she wishes the war was over so that they can finally be together for good.

Ugh... not being as rich in content doesn't mean the relationship is stricktly a hookup.

I have to admit, I never pursued anything with Kelly with any of my Sheps, they all had something cooking with another character. I probably don't have my facts straight (no pun intended) about Kelly.

This would seem to be the case. The flirtations leading up to the actual romance are quite good and realistic, and the scenes on the Citadel in ME3, while not quite large enough in quantity, are very good in quality.

[Siansonea]

Xilizhra wrote...

I agree. A well-developed asari romance is no substitute for a well-developed HUMAN f/f romance.

Why precisely is this?

Do you really have to ask? Because it's not the same thing. Asari aren't human. Therefore, it's not a human f/f romance. It's an ALIEN romance. Not everyone wants to shack up with aliens, no matter how much they look like human women. I'm not saying I dislike the Liara romance, I actually do like it. But it's not the same as having a human option for FemShep.

[ForThessia]

Siansonea II wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

Beep Il wrote...

ForThessia wrote...

my point is that for the me2 squaddies you diddnt need to talk to them repeatedly if you diddnt want to before their mission to gain their loyalty so the time it takes to gain their loyalty is the length of their mission 20-30 mins tops.
Cortez however requires you to speak to him repeatedly. but you need to wait for the plot to progress before you can speak to him again, therefore making the task of making him loyal much more tedious as it can be hours of play between the conversations 

It's part of an RPG to see people and surroundings evolve. Or would you rather head to Earth directly after Eden Prime? Besides, it's not tedious at all and if it is tedious, don't talk to him. It's that simple.

i know that but if you diddnt like someone in me2 you had to deal with them for 20 mins and you were done

in me3 cortez requires you to constantly talk to him for him to survive, taking much more time to focus on keeping him alive than a character you diddnt like in me2

If it's not worth your time to talk to him, do you really care if he dies? 

id rather him live cuz i try to keep everyone alive but i forget to talk to him and when i do talk to him i need to hold his hand through the conversations( as far as ive gotten)

[Xilizhra]

Siansonea II wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I agree. A well-developed asari romance is no substitute for a well-developed HUMAN f/f romance.

Why precisely is this?

Do you really have to ask? Because it's not the same thing. Asari aren't human. Therefore, it's not a human f/f romance. It's an ALIEN romance. Not everyone wants to shack up with aliens, no matter how much they look like human women. I'm not saying I dislike the Liara romance, I actually do like it. But it's not the same as having a human option for FemShep.

I'm torn between wanting to allow for more f/f content and feeling as though my own preferred romance is somehow being attacked. I'll say that I would like to see more possibilities for a human f/f LI, but I firmly believe Liara counts as another in this area.

[Siansonea]

Xilizhra wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

But Kelly and Allers aren't really fully developed romances for either Shepard, they're hookups, nothing more.

Yeah, that's why you have a convo with Kelly about formalizing the relationship and then she says how she wishes the war was over so that they can finally be together for good.

Ugh... not being as rich in content doesn't mean the relationship is stricktly a hookup.

I have to admit, I never pursued anything with Kelly with any of my Sheps, they all had something cooking with another character. I probably don't have my facts straight (no pun intended) about Kelly.

This would seem to be the case. The flirtations leading up to the actual romance are quite good and realistic, and the scenes on the Citadel in ME3, while not quite large enough in quantity, are very good in quality.

If Kelly had been a squad mate like Kaidan, and had more content, I probably would have been fine with her being the f/f option. Of course, I would have preferred Miranda, but no one asked me. 

[Beep Il]

ForThessia wrote...

 when i do talk to him i need to hold his hand through the conversations( as far as ive gotten)

That's not true. You help him to overcome the reemergent grief. There's no hand holding anywhere and when was helping someone considered to be negative? I really don't see your point.

Modifié par Beep Il, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:15 .

[Siansonea]

Xilizhra wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I agree. A well-developed asari romance is no substitute for a well-developed HUMAN f/f romance.

Why precisely is this?

Do you really have to ask? Because it's not the same thing. Asari aren't human. Therefore, it's not a human f/f romance. It's an ALIEN romance. Not everyone wants to shack up with aliens, no matter how much they look like human women. I'm not saying I dislike the Liara romance, I actually do like it. But it's not the same as having a human option for FemShep.

I'm torn between wanting to allow for more f/f content and feeling as though my own preferred romance is somehow being attacked. I'll say that I would like to see more possibilities for a human f/f LI, but I firmly believe Liara counts as another in this area.

If anyone is attacking your preferred romance, it isn't me. I like the Liara romance. Two of my own Shepards went for Liara. But they're xenophiles. You can certainly count Liara as an f/f option, Liara is female after all, but you CANNOT count her as a HUMAN f/f option because she isn't human. That's really all I'm saying, and I don't understand how that can be interpreted as an attack on anyone or anything. ::shrugs::

Modifié par Siansonea II, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:15 .

[Xilizhra]

If anyone is attacking your preferred romance, it isn't me. I like the Liara romance. Two of Shepards went for Liara. But they're xenophiles. You can certainly count Liara as an f/f option, Liara is female after all, but you CANNOT count her as a HUMAN f/f option because she isn't human. That's really all I'm saying, and I don't understand how that can be interpreted as an attack on anyone or anything. ::shrugs::

Because many people have made insinuations before about Liara not being a woman, and while I admit this isn't the same argument as that, it's enough to trigger my emotional defense response.

And just think, this little misunderstanding is something else that we could avoid if we had Synthesis, but that's another story.