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[Faerell Gustani]

Bibdy wrote...

Scars Unseen wrote...

Distinction:  A system of encouragement adds a valid form of play that would serve as an alternative to dumping everything into one stat.  A system of discouragement takes away from an established form of play, leaving other lesser options as the only choices.

More options good.  Less options bad.  See?

I like your description of systems of encouragement and discouragement, but the first doesn't imply more options and the second doesn't imply less options. Your final statement there is utterly false as it relates to the first. Lesser options doesn't mean they're the only choices, nor does it mean there are less choices, in basic fact it gives you MORE choices, because there's 5 other stats to look at instead of always sticking with one. Now you're considering more options than you would have before. There's nothing stopping you putting all 3 attribute points in to Magic every level, but the system ENCOURAGES you to think of other options. Which is identical to DISCOURAGING you to not use the same one over and over. Encouragement, discouragement, benefit, penalty, tah-may-toe, toe-mah-toe, they're all essentially synonymous in this context.

The importance should be in HOW you diversify. You can't honestly enjoy a system where players can stack a Mage character with stats like 10/10/10/80/10/10, can you? If not, then you must understand that there should always be SOME diversity in there. Buffing/nerfing stats isn't going to achieve that at all points as a character progresses. Diversity is always good. "Variety is the spice of life". It makes things more dynamic and interesting. Following the same pattern for developing a character all the time is tedious and doesn't lend itself to the replayability factor.

Idealism or not, you don't honestly expect Bioware to come up with a system that gives you complete diversity AND complete specialisation as completely equal, viable options from level 1 to 100...do you?

I think scars is trying to say that if we instead gave a "buff" to lower stats when you boost them we would get a better reaction.
Mechanically it's the same damned thing.  However, psychologically, it is different.
Power is relative, and if you have X Y and Z and you boost Z then X and Y are less powerful for it.
Similarly, you could reduce the effectiveness of X and Y and end up with the same result.
However from a psychological stand point, people like to see the "Z got boosted" rather than "X and Y got reduced".

For intelligent number-crunchers it won't make a difference, but for the drooling masses who are only capable of basic kneejerk reactions, it makes a world of difference.

[Bibdy]

Faerell Gustani wrote...

I think scars is trying to say that if we instead gave a "buff" to lower stats when you boost them we would get a better reaction.
Mechanically it's the same damned thing.  However, psychologically, it is different.
Power is relative, and if you have X Y and Z and you boost Z then X and Y are less powerful for it.
Similarly, you could reduce the effectiveness of X and Y and end up with the same result.
However from a psychological stand point, people like to see the "Z got boosted" rather than "X and Y got reduced".

For intelligent number-crunchers it won't make a difference, but for the drooling masses who are only capable of basic kneejerk reactions, it makes a world of difference.

I'm not sure that is what he's getting at, because that's exactly what I proposed before that response of his you quoted.

I think he doesn't want to see a specialisation-encouraging system removed for the sake of a diversity-encouraging system. He'd rather see both, which is an admirable goal, but this is reality here. No RPG has yet accomplished that and DA:O's system is pretty basic. I don't think they're going for award-winning mechanics here, just something functional.

If one is going to win, I'd much rather it be a diversity-encouraging system, since that offers a far more interesting playground of stats to mess with than a specialisation-encouraging one. DA:O is a very basic stat system without any regulation, essentially. It all scales linearly and there's no penalty for pumping everything into one stat. Therefore, if stat A is better than stats B, C, D, E and F in benefit per point, and you don't necessarily need stats B-F, you can pretty much ignore all other stats except for the sake of a few pre-requisite abilities (e.g. Cunning for Coercion, Trap-Making, Herbalism etc.).

I'm not against other means of making stats more enticing, but I don't see anything wrong with a little encouragement being added in to spice things up a bit.

But, one mans encouragement is another man's regulation and people will be people.