56 réponses à ce sujet

[Leoroc]

 I would like to see some stronger RPG elements in DA3. What do I mean by that? I will tell you!

1 - front loaded character creation: Let us get our hands on a character sheet at creation. Choose our initial talent, and place attribute points.

2 - All attributes should matter for all classes: Sure some more than others, but ending the game with 100s in two stats and 12s in the others is kind of lame. Gear should help with more than jut a class's two primary stats and dump-statting should be discouraged mechanically.

3 - Races should affect you mechanically: If we get to choose race, or even if it is just our companion's races, certains races should be better than others at certain things (Elves and nature magic, bows, being poor =p) dwarves hardier and more resistant to magic, kossith stronger etc.

4 - Items should not be class restricted: I mean hard restrictions, no rogue only leathers or warrior only swords. There can be serious disadvantages to a warrior using a staff or a mage wearing platemail to make it not worthwhile, but no outright restriction (other than maybe stats).

That's about it, feel free to comment/disagree.

[wowpwnslol]

Leoroc wrote...

 I would like to see some stronger RPG elements in DA3. What do I mean by that? I will tell you!

1 - front loaded character creation: Let us get our hands on a character sheet at creation. Choose our initial talent, and place attribute points.

I agree. Customization of your character goes a long way to helping create a good RPG experience. If "casuals" are afraid of making a "bad" choice, simply introduce a "recommended" option like in NWN series.

2 - All attributes should matter for all classes: Sure some more than others, but ending the game with 100s in two stats and 12s in the others is kind of lame. Gear should help with more than jut a class's two primary stats and dump-statting should be discouraged mechanically.

I don't totally agree here. Why would a warrior focus on wisdom/intelligence? Why would a sorcerer bother with strength? It makes zero sense. Focusing on certain stats creates a dependency on other party members, which is a good thing.

3 - Races should affect you mechanically: If we get to choose race, or even if it is just our companion's races, certains races should be better than others at certain things (Elves and nature magic, bows, being poor =p) dwarves hardier and more resistant to magic, kossith stronger etc.

Yes, some races should be better at some things and worse at others. Elves should be more dexterous, dwarves should be more hardy and tough, Kossith should be strong and lumbering, humans are somewhere in the middle.

4 - Items should not be class restricted: I mean hard restrictions, no rogue only leathers or warrior only swords. There can be serious disadvantages to a warrior using a staff or a mage wearing platemail to make it not worthwhile, but no outright restriction (other than maybe stats).

Somewhat agree. If a rogue is dumb enough to use a greatsword, let him. (assuming he has enough strength). A warrior could use a mage staff if he has enough intelligence/magic. Every class should be able to use any item, providing they meet the requirements and are stupid enough.

[wsandista]

Leoroc wrote...



1 - front loaded character creation: Let us get our hands on a character sheet at creation. Choose our initial talent, and place attribute points.

Agree %1000

2 - All attributes should matter for all classes: Sure some more than others, but ending the game with 100s in two stats and 12s in the others is kind of lame. Gear should help with more than jut a class's two primary stats and dump-statting should be discouraged mechanically.

Agree that all atributes should benefit all classes. However I don't think that stat-dumping should be discouraged(because when I play a Fighter in D&D, I dump into Strength), instead having specializations that benefit from high attributes not usually considered optimal for the class would be a better solution IMO.

3 - Races should affect you mechanically: If we get to choose race, or even if it is just our companion's races, certains races should be better than others at certain things (Elves and nature magic, bows, being poor =p) dwarves hardier and more resistant to magic, kossith stronger etc.

Attribute and ability-wise, yes, however, racial weapon bonuses I don't like.

4 - Items should not be class restricted: I mean hard restrictions, no rogue only leathers or warrior only swords. There can be serious disadvantages to a warrior using a staff or a mage wearing platemail to make it not worthwhile, but no outright restriction (other than maybe stats).

I think that equipment should be restricted by proficiency, like in D&D. class restricted equipment should be removed or kept at a minimum.

[Fast Jimmy]

I wish the things you were saying we're being said by many more people, many more times.

[Allan Schumacher]

Attribute and ability-wise, yes, however, racial weapon bonuses I don't like.

Just curious why not?

[Realmzmaster]

1 - As long as it is explained in either a in-game tutorial or extremely well in the manual I have no problem, because even with a level up the casual has to understand what and why it is being leveled up.

2 Why would all attributes matter to each class? Unless skill and talent learning is going to be tied to intelligence. The character is going to need a certain amount of intelligence to be able to learn a weapon proficiency or pick a lock

3 - Is weight also going to be a consideration. So if I create a 250 pound elf character he/she will not be as dexterous as a lighter elf, but more dexterous than a human of the same weight? Or will there be weight restrictions differences between races? Will there also be differences regarding gender within the races?

4 I agree no class restrictions regarding weapons and armor but severe penalties if a rogue is wearing plate mail and trying to sneak past the guards or pick a lock. If a mage is wearing plate armor it should impede spellcasting ability especially if the spell requires gestures or drawing of a glyph.
If a warrior or any non-mage uses a staff in his/her hands it is simply a piece of wood or whatever material it is made of since the warrior cannot channel magic from the Fade. The warrior can only use it as a quarterstaff unable to unlock the magic potential within.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 12 juillet 2012 - 01:56 .

[wsandista]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Attribute and ability-wise, yes, however, racial weapon bonuses I don't like.

Just curious why not?

It assumes that the character is from a certain culture. The reason Elfs have proficiency with Bows(longswords and rapiers as well) in D&D rules is because the use of them is part of Elven culture.

[Allan Schumacher]

So really more of a "too much backstory" issue for you?

It is reasonable to assume that any innate benefits an elf may have with a bow is due to innately superior dexterity or whatnot, so I can definitely see your point.

[wsandista]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

So really more of a "too much backstory" issue for you?

Yes.

It is reasonable to assume that any innate benefits an elf may have with a bow is due to innately superior dexterity or whatnot, so I can definitely see your point.

Of course, but that superior dexterity should also effect everything else the same magnitude. I don't see why only bows should get the benefit.

[Allan Schumacher]

Of course, but that superior dexterity should also effect everything else the same magnitude. I don't see why only bows should get the benefit.

Actually, when you state it like this I'm in less agreement with your point haha.

The problem with inflating the attribute is that, as you say, it affects ALL things that are dependent on it.

If the intent of improving bows is to show that elves in particular have particularly good spatial awareness and anticipation, it makes sense to improve only bows without improving daggers as much. Both these skills would see benefits with just an improvement to dexterity.

[Leoroc]

Culture kind of is assumed with character creation in Dragon Age though. Especially so in Origins (and it in fact did affect your starting talent whether you were a City Elf Warrior or Dalish Elf Warrior as an example).

In defense of #2 the specialization idea is kind of what I had in mind; perhaps Templars need heavy willpower for their abilities to resist magic. A Ranger could benefit from spellpower on some nature-like spell talents. I just didn't like the absurd differences between the two primary stats and the non-primary stats you see in DA2.

I would be ok if you only got stat increases every 2 or 3 levels rather than every level just to keep the numbers smaller. (and instead skills were brought back to fill in the levels between)

[AngryFrozenWater]

I agree with the OP.

I wish BW would expand on some things they already have, but currently don't use to their full potential. A good example are the tattoos. I can imagine that these have magical attributes. Instead of selecting a pattern to look nice a PC doesn't have one initially. To get a tattoo requires a quest to obtain one. Having such a tattoo should have significant impact and once chosen it cannot be changed. That also adds a quest that people would love to do. Make that quest challenging.

Talent trees should be learned from someone and it would require a quest.

Weapons and armor should get their own specific quests. I didn't like that the best armor in DA2 was part of the main quest. Especially because what you found there was the best in the game, but it also required them to be sets to be fully useful. Why not have a specific quest for a complete set, instead? Make great weapons and armor obtainable by epic quests. Still have some variation in them, so that different armor have the same quality, but different properties and looks.

The same idea can also be applied for rings and other jewelry.

A merchant for magic items? Because magic is taboo everywhere create a quest to find a merchant who sells that stuff. The same can be done for the other classes. Arrows can either be found in the game, but the great ones require the fletcher to be found through a specific quest.

And so on.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 12 juillet 2012 - 02:41 .

[aldien]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree with the OP.

I wish BW would expand on some things they already have, but currently don't use to their full potential. A good example are the tattoos. I can imagine that these have magical attributes. Instead of selecting a pattern to look nice a PC doesn't have one initially. To get a tattoo requires a quest to obtain one. Having such a tattoo should have significant impact and once chosen it cannot be changed. That also adds a quest that people would love to do. Make that quest challenging.

Talent trees should be learned from someone and it would require a quest.

Weapons and armor should get their own specific quests. I didn't like that the best armor in DA2 was part of the main quest. Especially because what you found there was the best in the game, but it also required them to be sets to be fully useful. Why not have a specific quest for a complete set, instead? Make great weapons and armor obtainable by epic quests. Still have some variation in them, so that different armor have the same quality, but different properties and looks.

The same idea can also be applied for rings and other jewelry.

A merchant for magic items? Because magic is taboo everywhere create a quest to find a merchant who sells that stuff. The same can be done for the other classes. Arrows can either be found in the game, but the great ones require the fletcher to be found through a specific quest.

And so on.

Adding to this because you reminded me of it, I wish they would allow the player to craft their own armor and add or pay for it to be enchanted. It is an idea from Skyrim but if they cut out the 'finding your own resources' and made it so the player could still craft, I think it would be fun. At least, it would feel more personal.

Perhaps craft your own staff or take pieces of items to craft a new one. Mix and match if that makes sense.

Modifié par aldien, 12 juillet 2012 - 02:56 .

[Direwolf0294]

I agree with all your points OP except for racial bonuses. I don't think the races should be any different stat wise from each other. From a mechanics point of view I hate the idea of my characters being worse or better in their chosen role just because of the race I chose to play as. From a story point of view I hate the idea that a characters potential aptitude is determined by what they were born as or that no matter how hard my human archer works they'll never be as good as an elven archer etc.

Also if you're going to start adding racial stats to the game you may as well start adding different stats depending on a characters gender and that's a road I just don't want to go down.

Modifié par Direwolf0294, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:01 .

[RPGamer13]

In DAII, any class could wear any armor as long as they had the stats. But that would be cool to spread to weapons too. I'm hoping they bring back the dual wielding warrior. Also, the skill trees if they stay shouldn't require you to buy every previous connected skill in order to get the next one. This could allow for bigger skill trees and hopefully more variety in how you build your character.

[wsandista]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Actually, when you state it like this I'm in less agreement with your point haha.

The problem with inflating the attribute is that, as you say, it affects ALL things that are dependent on it.

If the intent of improving bows is to show that elves in particular have particularly good spatial awareness and anticipation, it makes sense to improve only bows without improving daggers as much. Both these skills would see benefits with just an improvement to dexterity.

That is true. However, Elves in DA(IIRC of course) aren't exactly famous for mastery of archery. The Dalish are, yet I don't remember the same being said of the city elves or elven mages.

What is said of elves though is that they are lithe and graceful, which would translate to +DEX I believe. Now a + x to ranged weapons would be easier to chalk up to natural ability, but when you classify it by one weapon(like dwarves getting +x to battleaxe damage), it sounds a little weird IMO.

[Cultist]

All good points for OP.
1. Ideally, 'd like to see Fallout-like perks that may define you even better.
2. Old RPG wound. We got Strength, Cunning, Dexterity, Vitality and Magic. The only way to prevent 2-attribute leveling is by making them affect different areas for different classes.
3. Races and specializations should affect quests and your interaction with the world. Elves that are skilled with bows is the legacy of AD&D, and not a strict rule we should obey. BG2 got great idea about stronghold - where each class got different quest lines. There should be options that may should be available only for certain races, specializations and classes.
4. Not only that - they should not be level restricted. You fight hard and prevail against all odds against a owerful enemy and get sword that you can't use due to level\\attribute restriction, efectively rendering all your efforts in vain.

[WotanAnubis]

Cultist wrote...

All good points for OP.
1. Ideally, 'd like to see Fallout-like perks that may define you even better.

Me too. I especially like the perks that may not be mechanically amazing, but do add a lot of flavour (like the New Vegas Cowboy, Sneering Imperialist or Confirmed Bachelor, to name a few).

Unfortunately, most Fallout perks are somehow dependant on skills. This is not a problem in Fallout, because every character can level every skill. In Dragon Age, however, Warriors, Rogues and Mages have very different skills.

So you might need to create seperate perks for each class and then create seperate perks for each Skill (or maybe only the Specialisation - some perks you can only get if you're a Blood Mage, others only if you're a Spirit Healer, still others only if you're a Blood Mage and a Shapeshifter).

[Cyberarmy]

WotanAnubis wrote...


Unfortunately, most Fallout perks are somehow dependant on skills. This is not a problem in Fallout, because every character can level every skill. In Dragon Age, however, Warriors, Rogues and Mages have very different skills.

So you might need to create seperate perks for each class and then create seperate perks for each Skill (or maybe only the Specialisation - some perks you can only get if you're a Blood Mage, others only if you're a Spirit Healer, still others only if you're a Blood Mage and a Shapeshifter).

Well its already seperated in New Vegas too, some perks wont pop up until you have the necessary stats or skill percantage.
They can also use another Elder Scrolls thing, after completing a quest you get a perk related to that quest depends on how did you completed the quest.

[MichaelStuart]

1.Agree

2.I despise attributes and stats, but if they have to be there, I agree that they should have more effect on gameplay.

3.I rather they didn't. I rather the way I play not be limited to how the writers think my character should play.

4.I despise classes and would rather they get rid of them altogether, allowing me to play my character as I wish.

[Marvin_Arnold]

Generally, everything that gives the player more choices is good for RPG. The restrictions of DA2 were deadly for the RPG experience, IMO.

regarding 2. (primary stats). In DA:O, non-primary stats DID have an effect: Magic made healing that charcter more effective, Willpower acted on your stamina, Cunning increased your tactics slots, Dexterity increased attack and defense (IIRC) etc., so non-primary stats weren't useless on a character. (They could be more powerful so a player would consider adding them more often.)

Big was my surprise when I had to discover that DA2 didn't work that way... :-(

[Fallstar]

Leoroc wrote...

 I would like to see some stronger RPG elements in DA3. What do I mean by that? I will tell you!

1 - front loaded character creation: Let us get our hands on a character sheet at creation. Choose our initial talent, and place attribute points.

Agreed.

2 - All attributes should matter for all classes: Sure some more than others, but ending the game with 100s in two stats and 12s in the others is kind of lame. Gear should help with more than jut a class's two primary stats and dump-statting should be discouraged mechanically.

Agreed to a point. DAO had all stats matter to all classes, but certain stats gave far superior bonuses to your class than others. Dump Statting shouldn't be discouraged mechanically, it should be a perfectly viable option. It's Bioware's job to make sure there are other viable options.

3 - Races should affect you mechanically: If we get to choose race, or even if it is just our companion's races, certains races should be better than others at certain things (Elves and nature magic, bows, being poor =p) dwarves hardier and more resistant to magic, kossith stronger etc.

Agreed. And try to get the lore to match the gameplay a bit more. Based on what dwarves say about being threatened with magic, you'd think their racial bonus would be more like a 30-40% resist than a 10%.

4 - Items should not be class restricted: I mean hard restrictions, no rogue only leathers or warrior only swords. There can be serious disadvantages to a warrior using a staff or a mage wearing platemail to make it not worthwhile, but no outright restriction (other than maybe stats).

Absolutely agreed here. There's nothing stopping a rogue from getting 42 strength and equipping some massive armour, should they want to. Those class restrictions were just plain irritating in DA2.

You make some good points.

I would also like to suggest that specialisations become completely separate to ordinary talent trees. Once you reach the level required to choose a specialisation, and once you have unlocked it, you should gain talent points with every level like normal, and gain a specialisation talent point every other level or every three. Combined with being limited to a single specialisation, I think this would make your specialisations feel like a more important part of your build.

And I definitely support the return of conversation skills

Modifié par DuskWarden, 12 juillet 2012 - 04:19 .

[Cimeas]

Yeah it's important to remember that 'RPG elements' is a bit of a false definition, since there are many different types of RPG, all it means is 'role-playing game' so basically any game in which you play and make decisions as a character.

However, I think that more 'classic Western CRPG' features could certainly make a comeback, especially conversation skills.


One thing I don't like however, is having 2 rings slots and a necklace slot. Firstly you don't even see them on your character and secondly its annoying to have to swap them out all the time. I'm all for gear, but it feels like the slots are added just for the sake of it, if you know what I mean.

[JonathonPR]

It would be great if choice of noncombat skills and abilaties would affect what choices can be made. I remember from DA:O a sceen where there is a guy who recognized the warden from a wanted poster and confronted him. If the player did not have a high enough social skill they had to fight him. Previously I was playing the game as a hack and slash, but after that I started a new game. The ability to help the sick elk animal in the Elvin encampment or the dwarf that had been poisoned because I chose those skills was extremely rewarding. Combat was what happened in between those moments. My character had the potential to be something other than a combat machine. The interaction with the story changed not just because of what I chose to say but also the skills I chose for them to learn. I did not like how DA2 hand waved that.

I play tabletop RPGs from time to time and I enjoy how stats can be used to make the character with their back story. What skills did they pick up through life. Even when all the players had fighters or barbarians as characters there was a great deal of diversity. Only one character knew how to swim. He had a story for why and it gave him unique ways to deal with problems. Its the unique ways noncombat abilities can affect the story that make it more than a generic dungeon crawl.

[Jerrybnsn]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Attribute and ability-wise, yes, however, racial weapon bonuses I don't like.

Just curious why not?

It's racist.